That Magical Six Figure Mark!

[PGA07]

Seems that many people are under the impression that when one sticks to the pilot profession, eventually they will achieve that six figure income status. I have my doubts and my belief is that it is entirely dependant upon which avenue each person takes.

There are many out there who are in the know much more than I so I would appreciate any insight that you all may be able to provide. Please don't turn this into a "if you are in it for the money don't do it" or "we are pilots because we love to fly" thread.

Those arguments don't hold a full glass with me (only a half glass)! Like JTrain has said in the past, "the coolness factor" or "the fact that I can say I am a pilot does not pay my mortgage, keep food on the table or keep the wife happy". In the end, it does come down to cold hard cash and QOL, for everyone!

[Minima-No-Contact]

Cathay and maybe Emirates come up with the big bucks at the end of the day (as far as offshore positions go). The best gig I came across lately was when a friend took a contract for 3 months flying a G5 in the Middle East for... US$60k. Not bad for a quarter years work.

No matter where you work though, pilots will always think the grass is greener elsewhere.

[wheelsup]

The thing about most 6-figure jobs is they require you to play the part of a 6-figure income earner. My father had a good job but spent a lot of money on nice cars, house, suits, dinners out, vacations, etc. We never struggled but honestly, I never, ever, want that lifestyle. Being a pilot is so much more stress free.

I'm not saying I don't want to drive a brand new BMW or anything. I'm just saying I'm really lazy and like to minimize the amount of actual work I have to do, and wouldn't like to buy things to fit in at work. I really hope I never lose my medical! It would suck. Then I'd have to work.

[typhoonpilot]

As with any profession, if you dedicate your life and put your energy into it the rewards come in due time. That is very true for aviation. There are many jobs out there well into the 6 figures. Very few start at that figure, it takes time to reach it. There was a recent thread asking just that question, "How long to six figures?".


Typhoonpilot

[Murdoughnut]

With the way our economy is going, I don't foresee many people making 6-digit incomes in the near future. The globalization of the economy, in addition to increased technology will make many specializations less "special" for a lack of better terms.

The trend in aviation seems to be concessions and lower wages. I imagine what we'll see is a gradual increase in entry level wages (to incent folks to assume the ever increasing costs of training) and a decrease in the wages of higher end pilots (74 captains and the like) due to market supply.

Just my opinion, though. I may be full of it.

[southbound]

One has to look at the way the six figures are made. In my case I work on average 4,050 hours a year and to me the six figures is not worth it. JMO

[typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

With the way our economy is going, I don't foresee many people making 6-digit incomes in the near future. The globalization of the economy, in addition to increased technology will make many specializations less "special" for a lack of better terms.

The trend in aviation seems to be concessions and lower wages. I imagine what we'll see is a gradual increase in entry level wages (to incent folks to assume the ever increasing costs of training) and a decrease in the wages of higher end pilots (74 captains and the like) due to market supply.

Just my opinion, though. I may be full of it.

I think we'll see an increase in pilot wages, especially in the foreign airline arena to incite more applicants and tempt young people into the career field. My company has raised wages by over 30% in the last 3 years and we'll probably see another 10% raise in the coming year. Starting pay is now $75,000 tax free which equates to over $100,000 equivalent in the USA. Senior pilots in check and training roles are making closer to $200,000.

In the corporate world guys with good time in the G450/550 are making $1500/day as contract pilots. Those who build up a network can make $300,000/year. The sim centers such as Alteon and CAE are raising the pay to $600/session plus per diem for overseas assignments. Easy to make $10,000/month on that. My brother ( who owes me big time now ) is working at my company as a contract sim instructor for around $17,000/month.



Typhoonpilot

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by typhoonpilot

I think we'll see an increase in pilot wages, especially in the foreign airline arena to incite more applicants and tempt young people into the career field. My company has raised wages by over 30% in the last 3 years and we'll probably see another 10% raise in the coming year. Starting pay is now $75,000 tax free which equates to over $100,000 equivalent in the USA. Senior pilots in check and training roles are making closer to $200,000.

In the corporate world guys with good time in the G450/550 are making $1500/day as contract pilots. Those who build up a network can make $300,000/year. The sim centers such as Alteon and CAE are raising the pay to $600/session plus per diem for overseas assignments. Easy to make $10,000/month on that. My brother ( who owes me big time now ) is working at my company as a contract sim instructor for around $17,000/month.



Typhoonpilot

I just flew with a guy whose buddy went to work for Emirates recently and said he was unhappy that the company was not living up to its promises. According to him, his buddy was not being paid according to their published rates and his schedule was being jacked with unfairly.

Like I said, not first hand knowledge...but from a straighshooter, no-nonsense, no drama type of guy?

I know how false rumors go, but any comments on this?

[typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

I just flew with a guy whose buddy went to work for Emirates recently and said he was unhappy that the company was not living up to its promises. According to him, his buddy was not being paid according to their published rates and his schedule was being jacked with unfairly.

Like I said, not first hand knowledge...but from a straighshooter, no-nonsense, no drama type of guy?

I know how false rumors go, but any comments on this?

In five years at Emirates I have not had any problem with pay that wasn't sorted out by the next month. The pay scale is published and set so it would be really difficult to believe that the company hasn't lived up to it's pay arrangement.

In regards to schedule, there are occasional changes to the published roster. Key word being occasional. When it happens you are not pay protected like at a union airline in the States. Generally it equals out over the long run. I lost a few hours last month due to a change, but I'm making more back this month due to a similar change. Both occasions were changes to the trip on the same day.


TP

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by typhoonpilot

In five years at Emirates I have not had any problem with pay that wasn't sorted out by the next month. The pay scale is published and set so it would be really difficult to believe that the company hasn't lived up to it's pay arrangement.

In regards to schedule, there are occasional changes to the published roster. Key word being occasional. When it happens you are not pay protected like at a union airline in the States. Generally it equals out over the long run. I lost a few hours last month due to a change, but I'm making more back this month due to a similar change. Both occasions were changes to the trip on the same day.


TP

Thanks for the reply. If I remember correctly, he wasn't getting a set guarantee pay or something or losing a bunch of time for the month...and taking a big hit on the paycheck. But I know nothing about your compensation program and know very little details of the situation.

[PGA07]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

The thing about most 6-figure jobs is they require you to play the part of a 6-figure income earner. My father had a good job but spent a lot of money on nice cars, house, suits, dinners out, vacations, etc. We never struggled but honestly, I never, ever, want that lifestyle. Being a pilot is so much more stress free.

I'm not saying I don't want to drive a brand new BMW or anything. I'm just saying I'm really lazy and like to minimize the amount of actual work I have to do, and wouldn't like to buy things to fit in at work. I really hope I never lose my medical! It would suck. Then I'd have to work.

Have to agree with you there. If I can make that level of income great, however, if I can make a comfortable income and have an enjoyable life, that would be great also.

The American Way.................more income, less work! Sad but true, we have gotten very lazy as a society!

[flyover]

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

With the way our economy is going, I don't foresee many people making 6-digit incomes in the near future. The globalization of the economy, in addition to increased technology will make many specializations less "special" for a lack of better terms.

About 1 in 5 households in the US currently make six figures or more. Pretty good and has been moving up, along with other developed countries. There are more "affluent" households in US than "poor".

Don't be afraid of globalization. This economic trend that is bringing millions around the world out of poverty does not mean there is less for you. Next time you get a chance look at the people that are staging the "globalization" protests. They are freaks, mostly communists.

[Ian J]

I made 6 figures before I got out of the Army. Now we make half that. I haven't noticed any lowering of my QOL from it either, except I can't save nearly as much as I used to.

[Swen]

I feel the six figure number is slightly arbitrary. $100,000 jobs in some large metro areas would only pay about $60,000 in my area. So I think the six figure blanket is too broad to equally represent all flying positions.

[PGA07]

Originally Posted by flyover

About 1 in 5 households in the US currently make six figures or more. Pretty good and has been moving up, along with other developed countries. There are more "affluent" households in US than "poor".

Don't be afraid of globalization. This economic trend that is bringing millions around the world out of poverty does not mean there is less for you. Next time you get a chance look at the people that are staging the "globalization" protests. They are freaks, mostly communists.

I would have to argue that there is a big difference between an individual income and a house hold income. According to our government, if your household income is over $100,000 you are in the top 20% in the country . Our household income is over six figures and it sure does not feel that way (perhaps because of where we live). They say that the house hold average is $44,000....again ! I find this hard to believe!

Globalization can help, it can hurt. I think it depends upon the industry and person. The fact that it is occuring has to be acknowledged and accepted!

[Murdoughnut]

Originally Posted by flyover

About 1 in 5 households in the US currently make six figures or more. Pretty good and has been moving up, along with other developed countries. There are more "affluent" households in US than "poor".

Don't be afraid of globalization. This economic trend that is bringing millions around the world out of poverty does not mean there is less for you. Next time you get a chance look at the people that are staging the "globalization" protests. They are freaks, mostly communists.

That's combined household income, though - so what it's saying is that 20% of traditional families have each wage earner making $50k or more (on average). That's good, but it's not the same as one person making $100k+ per year.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

The thing about most 6-figure jobs is they require you to play the part of a 6-figure income earner. My father had a good job but spent a lot of money on nice cars, house, suits, dinners out, vacations, etc.

That depends. My folks do well but you know what? My dad is still running around with an Omega watch from the 1950s. He said it's still working so why buy a new one? He drives his cars until they fall apart. They've lived in the same house for about 30 years now even though they could have that McMansion.

It's all about how you choose to live. If you don't give a crap about keeping up with the Joneses (who most of the time are leveraged like a subprime mortgage company with offices in Vegas, Orlando, and Orange County) then it is very easy to have that six figure job without having to buy the fancy car and house and blah, blah, blah.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by flyover

About 1 in 5 households in the US currently make six figures or more. Pretty good and has been moving up, along with other developed countries. There are more "affluent" households in US than "poor".

Don't be afraid of globalization. This economic trend that is bringing millions around the world out of poverty does not mean there is less for you. Next time you get a chance look at the people that are staging the "globalization" protests. They are freaks, mostly communists.

Just read Alan Greenspan's book this summer and he paints a little different picture for the U.S. American's at or below the poverty level are rising at the fastest percentage points, now around 20% of Americans, and the increases in the wealthiest have gone from the top 10% to top 1% of Americans. The gap between the wealthiest and the poorest is at a record level.

While AG predicts that globalization will be good for the world economy and for workers of the decentralized former communist governments who have been unleashed to the worldwide supply of workers by the millions...this will put pressure on American workers. The worldwide "checkbook" must balance. And when capital is taken out of the U.S. and sent abroad...there is definitely less left for Americans. Just look at the value of our currency.

Bottom line, U.S. workers are going to have to be more productive, efficient, skilled and educated to compete with the globalized workforce. AG coins the term "creative destruction"...which pretty much means there will be less for the average U.S. worker. At least in the short term. Long term...too many factors...not the least of which is how China will decide to govern their economy.

It's going to be a bumpy ride going forward.

I'm not saying it's good or bad....just what it is.

However, AG also defends corporate executive compensation levels...and does a poor job of it at that. I didn't agree with his basis in that chapter at all.

[CapnJim]

Here's a conundrum for you:

Pilots make more money when Democrats call the shots.
Most pilots vote Republican.

No wonder they say "Don't get in this job for the money"

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by tonyw

That depends. My folks do well but you know what? My dad is still running around with an Omega watch from the 1950s. He said it's still working so why buy a new one? He drives his cars until they fall apart. They've lived in the same house for about 30 years now even though they could have that McMansion.

It's all about how you choose to live. If you don't give a crap about keeping up with the Joneses (who most of the time are leveraged like a subprime mortgage company with offices in Vegas, Orlando, and Orange County) then it is very easy to have that six figure job without having to buy the fancy car and house and blah, blah, blah.

I think you missed the point of my post. While you make an excellent point about lifestyle - the point of my post was that a lot of the high end jobs out there require you, as a person, to also live a high end lifestyle. If my father showed up for a sales call on a $50 million government contract bid driving a 10 year old Volvo he'd get laughed out of the room. That's how life is played these days.

He'd take lobbyists out to lunch, wine and dine, etc. etc. Anything to get the contract. It was an expensive lifestyle. It had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses.

Another example. You've got to pick a lawyer. One drives a 1992 Honda Accord while the other drives an S-Class Benz. Who do you pick? Personally I'd go talk to the guy in the S-Class first.

(yes, I know you will come back with a remark about "I'd do my research blah blah blah" but we all know who the majority of the population would pick - which was my point).