Using ANR in the 121 world - Page 2

MattB · November 15th, 2007, 00:48

My director of flight standards does, I called the other guy to confirm.

I am just trying to be helpful, as I said my DFS warned me because my headset is not tso'd. I'm not happy about having to get a new set.

EatSleepFly · November 15th, 2007, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB

New news... If your headset is not tso'd, do not use it with a fed on board, they have orders to crack down and have the discression to violate.

On what grounds? Don't worry, I won't hold my breath while you attempt to come up with an answer.

FAA Interpretation

Doug Taylor · November 15th, 2007, 00:56

The non-TSO'ed headseat is actually verboten at my airline as well. Feds and line check airmen love that stuff!

MattB · November 15th, 2007, 00:57

I have no idea.

ESF, I'm just passing along what I have heard first hand. Not trying to start anything.

mtsu_av8er · November 15th, 2007, 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB

My director of flight standards does, I called the other guy to confirm.

Well, get a copy of it, scan it, and post it!

jtrain609 · November 15th, 2007, 01:01

Whenever I fly into Mexico is sounds like they're talking into tin cans attached to strings that are run up to the airplane.

I don't think their tin cans are TSOed. Somebody should violate them.

MattB · November 15th, 2007, 01:06

I am new to the 121 world, so please correct me if I'm wrong...and like I said I'm new so I may very well be. Example:

You are using your lightspeeds in the cockpit of a 121 aircraft whose FOM says a headset must be tso'd. Your headset isn't. A fed is riding jumpseat and notices this. Can he/she not pursue action?

EatSleepFly · November 15th, 2007, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB

ESF, I'm just passing along what I have heard first hand. Not trying to start anything.

I know, no worries.

I really don't think there is anything to worry about, though. If you read the interpretation I liked to above, there are very few cases where a TSO'ed headset is actually required- individual company policy is one of the few, and if that's been your company's policy, it shouldn't come as a surprise now.

Doug Taylor · November 15th, 2007, 01:08

That's the conventional wisdom at my airline.

Lemme dig around on the flight ops site for a reference.

jtrain609 · November 15th, 2007, 01:09

You know I think if a fed gave me too much crap about it I'd probably apologize, ask him for a reference on what he's talking about so I can look it up and not make the same mistake again and then grab a pair of the company provided David Clark's and continue with the trip.

Seems like a fairly reasonable thing to do if you ask me, and I've found most feds to be fairly reasonable if you're not a complete ######.

Doug Taylor · November 15th, 2007, 01:11

Ahh, here it is. Now this is from Southernjets so I'm not sure if it applies at carriers universally:

Quote:

TSO Headsets
Pilots are reminded that only TSO certified headsets are authorized for use by the FAA in Delta aircraft. A TSO - or Technical Standards Order - is a document the FAA uses to qualify a component attesting it has certain performance, capabilities, or standards. A vendor who qualifies a component to a TSO avoids a portion of certification expense as well identifies it meets FAA criteria specified in the TSO itself.

All components, as a function of TSO compliance, must identify TSO compliance on a permanent label. If a headset does not identify the TSO, it most likely does not comply. Owners need to contact the manufacturer to be certain.

P&H · November 15th, 2007, 01:32

Harder do hear our chimes without the ANR. The FAA is just running out of things to violate people for that's all.

mtsu_av8er · November 15th, 2007, 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by P&H

Harder do hear our chimes without the ANR. The FAA is just running out of things to violate people for that's all.

Next: unapproved socks at RVSM altitudes.

Booker · November 15th, 2007, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Whenever I fly into Mexico is sounds like they're talking into tin cans attached to strings that are run up to the airplane.

Didn't you know? The centers are run out of the controllers' houses. That's why you always talk to the same guys and gals all hours of the day and night.

BobDDuck · November 15th, 2007, 12:13

That's interesting the SouthernJets requires a TSO certified headset. There are lots of headsets out there that meet the TSO requirements but aren't certified. From the FAA response ESF posted it sounds like as long as the headset meets the requirements of the FARs AND can revert to passive noise canceling and broadcast upon the loss of battery AND it meets the requirements of your company's FOM/GOM then you are good to go.

jtrain609 · November 15th, 2007, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booker

Didn't you know? The centers are run out of the controllers' houses. That's why you always talk to the same guys and gals all hours of the day and night.

That's either a hilarious joke or...erm...well makes me glad I have TCAS and EGPWS.

Doug Taylor · November 15th, 2007, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

That's either a hilarious joke or...erm...well makes me glad I have TCAS and EGPWS.

Not to scare ya, but in the third world, there's a scary amount of smugglers flying in jet aircraft, speaking to no one, with no transponder!

Big problem in Africa!

May or may not be a problem south of the border.

BobDDuck · November 15th, 2007, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

May or may not be a problem south of the border.

It's a problem on this side of the border too. Two times now after flying into Knoxville, TN at night I've had DEA agents meet the airplane and ask us if we saw anybody flying around that wasn't a TCAS target on the way in.

Booker · November 16th, 2007, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

That's either a hilarious joke or...erm...well makes me glad I have TCAS and EGPWS.

Sorry; I should have added a

. To add: When it takes them five minutes to respond to a check-on, it's probably because they're in the shower or something.

Tram · November 16th, 2007, 14:16

I just left Oak City with a fed on the seat while I was wearing my Lightspeeds..

He didn't say a word..

CFIse · November 18th, 2007, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tram

I just left Oak City with a fed on the seat while I was wearing my Lightspeeds..

He didn't say a word..

What kinds of Fed? I've had plenty of Feds on the jumpseat, not a one of them was an airman Fed, most were MX getting a ride to work or going home or I have no idea. Most of them would only have been marginally aware of a problem if we'd left the runway and headed for the grass, let alone exotica like headsets.

Doug Taylor · November 18th, 2007, 13:10

And ACI and an ASI are two different things.

ACI's are the guys often familiar with your airline's FOM that know what they're looking at.

ASI's are usually the FAA's way of shuttling their inspectors around the world for free.

There's no harm in asking, "Sir? Are you an Air Carrier Inspector or an Air Safety Inspector?"

(Sorry for any toes stepped on Mr. Fed!)

CamYZ125 · November 18th, 2007, 19:11

How do you find out if it's TSO'ed or not? Should it have a marking like Doug's reference seemed to say? How many headsets are actually TSO certified or approved?

Dev · November 18th, 2007, 19:59

TSO'd headsets should have the certification printed on them.. I have the telex 850's, which are TSO'd and have ANR without batteries. I hope they make the cut - I just bought them...

Tram · November 19th, 2007, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFIse

What kinds of Fed?

No idea what this last guy was...

November 15th, 2007, 00:48	#26
MattB Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: MD Posts: 136	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world My director of flight standards does, I called the other guy to confirm. I am just trying to be helpful, as I said my DFS warned me because my headset is not tso'd. I'm not happy about having to get a new set. Last edited by MattB; November 15th, 2007 at 00:51. Reason: ellaboration

November 15th, 2007, 00:56	#28
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world The non-TSO'ed headseat is actually verboten at my airline as well. Feds and line check airmen love that stuff! __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

November 15th, 2007, 00:57	#29
MattB Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: MD Posts: 136	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world I have no idea. ESF, I'm just passing along what I have heard first hand. Not trying to start anything.

November 15th, 2007, 01:01	#31
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,869	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world Whenever I fly into Mexico is sounds like they're talking into tin cans attached to strings that are run up to the airplane. I don't think their tin cans are TSOed. Somebody should violate them. __________________ "Jetlink 2940, on another radio, contact clearance for new airways..."

November 15th, 2007, 01:06	#32
MattB Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: MD Posts: 136	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world I am new to the 121 world, so please correct me if I'm wrong...and like I said I'm new so I may very well be. Example: You are using your lightspeeds in the cockpit of a 121 aircraft whose FOM says a headset must be tso'd. Your headset isn't. A fed is riding jumpseat and notices this. Can he/she not pursue action?

November 15th, 2007, 01:08	#34
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world That's the conventional wisdom at my airline. Lemme dig around on the flight ops site for a reference. __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

November 15th, 2007, 01:09	#35
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,869	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world You know I think if a fed gave me too much crap about it I'd probably apologize, ask him for a reference on what he's talking about so I can look it up and not make the same mistake again and then grab a pair of the company provided David Clark's and continue with the trip. Seems like a fairly reasonable thing to do if you ask me, and I've found most feds to be fairly reasonable if you're not a complete ######. __________________ "Jetlink 2940, on another radio, contact clearance for new airways..."

November 15th, 2007, 01:32	#37
P&H Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 278	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world Harder do hear our chimes without the ANR. The FAA is just running out of things to violate people for that's all.

November 15th, 2007, 12:13	#40
BobDDuck Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat Posts: 5,924	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world That's interesting the SouthernJets requires a TSO certified headset. There are lots of headsets out there that meet the TSO requirements but aren't certified. From the FAA response ESF posted it sounds like as long as the headset meets the requirements of the FARs AND can revert to passive noise canceling and broadcast upon the loss of battery AND it meets the requirements of your company's FOM/GOM then you are good to go. __________________ TBJC08 The Gear Monkey The Gear Monkey Store

November 16th, 2007, 14:16	#45
Tram Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: KMSL Posts: 1,845	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world I just left Oak City with a fed on the seat while I was wearing my Lightspeeds.. He didn't say a word.. __________________ I flew the 757-200 sim at NATCO DANGIT...ON ONE ENGINE OUT OF EAGLE COLORADO AND THEN CIRCUMNAVIGATED A THUNDERSTORM!!! And what do these PAX do?! Glare at me..

November 18th, 2007, 13:10	#47
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world And ACI and an ASI are two different things. ACI's are the guys often familiar with your airline's FOM that know what they're looking at. ASI's are usually the FAA's way of shuttling their inspectors around the world for free. There's no harm in asking, "Sir? Are you an Air Carrier Inspector or an Air Safety Inspector?" (Sorry for any toes stepped on Mr. Fed!) __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

November 18th, 2007, 19:11	#48
CamYZ125 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: KCLT Posts: 472	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world How do you find out if it's TSO'ed or not? Should it have a marking like Doug's reference seemed to say? How many headsets are actually TSO certified or approved? __________________ "Because like a virgin getting his first piece (most, but not all) low time pilots are just happy to be there." -Maximillian_Jenius

November 18th, 2007, 19:59	#49
Dev Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: PHL Posts: 18	Re: Using ANR in the 121 world TSO'd headsets should have the certification printed on them.. I have the telex 850's, which are TSO'd and have ANR without batteries. I hope they make the cut - I just bought them...

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