Gulfstream Academy

[Cjordan]

Okay, so it looks like you're basically paying GTA for the opportunity to get 6 months SIC time @ 75hrs/month minimum = 450 as follows: tuition of ~ $30,000 - 450 hrs paid @ $19.60/hr as F.O. "Flying the line" as they state in their promo material = $30,000 - $8820 ==> $21,180 ==> $47.07/hr cost to you of the (Beech 1900) SIC turbine time.

Is that a fair deal or is SIC time worthless in and of itself on the resume?

[firebirdswm]

just run a search on Gulfstream here on JC. You'll find everything you'll ever want to know. If you want the really short answer, I'll sum up everything I've ever read about it on the boards here.....Gulfstream Academy = Evil

[montanapilot]

in todays hiring frenzy why would anyone even consider such a program? and thats not even talking about the self respect issue. you will be a pariah if you do such programs.

[Seggy]

http://forums.jetcareers.com/hot-topic-archive/

[SteveC]

A little light reading to get you started:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/hot-top...g-academy.html

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general...t-academy.html

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general...ulfstream.html

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general...t-academy.html

http://forums.jetcareers.com/hot-top...dont-know.html

The search function will reveal tons more, or check out the Hot Topics archive in the General Forum. Probably plenty in there as well.

[Kristie]

Hot topics forum... all you need to know about GA and MORE!

[Seggy]

Steve and Kristie-Great minds think alike!

[Tram]

Originally Posted by Cjordan

Is that a fair deal or is SIC time worthless in and of itself on the resume?

A guy in management many moons ago once said "I will have pilots paying ME to fly my airplanes... "

Everyone thought he was crazy...

Not anymore...

Is Gulfstream a fair deal? Not for what you have to put up with for the rest of your flying career...

[PCL_128]

Take it from someone who did it: don't give GIA any of your money. There are plenty of ways to get into this business without giving an airline your money.

[mrivc211]

Don in 5...4...3...2...1...

[mrivc211]

oh wait......freight dogs are workin right now!

[phoenix 23684]

I checked them out, even went down to Ft. Lauderdale because I wanted to get to the airlines the fast way and bypass CFIing.

I ended up getting all my I's and I really ended up enjoying teaching and learning a lot, even got hired by a regional faster than it would have taken me going the GIA route.

Like everyone here is saying why would anyone pay to be hired when the demand is so hi and you can get on with a much better regional and being paid for it.

[Cjordan]

I was just wondering. I won't be available for hire until at least January 2009... career changer: I'll mark 19 yrs at my current job next month, 20 yr retirement available mid December 2008... would have me retired @ 45 yrs old from 1st career, with middle age leaving opportunity to begin 2nd career. I'm hoping not to miss the tail end of the hiring frenzy by having to wait until Jan '09 at the earliest.

Out of currency PPASEL here. Last flew (VFR) in 2002. Class 3 medical renewal appt @ noon today, already had a ground school portion of BFR last week. Expecting BFR to take maybe 4 - 5 hours to get me signed off again, then going to begin Instrument training hopefully by next month at latest. FBO I'll be training at runs a part 135 operation, just bought a Beechjet, planning on another, plus has a King Air (200 I think), C310, and most recently a Cirrus SR22 single that they use or will be using for charter.

Planning on getting commercial and multi-engine there as well, perhaps instructor rating to boot, through the next year and however much longer it takes.

Knew GTA was a "buy a job" route, was twiddling the numbers and came up with that hourly rate, wanted to run it accross you all.

[mastermags]

If I was interviewing pilot candidates and I interviewed someone who went to one of the types of programs, I would immediately shake their hand and tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out, regardless of their age, background, and situation. But that's just how I feel.

[aviatorrbt]

Originally Posted by mastermags

If I was interviewing pilot candidates and I interviewed someone who went to one of the types of programs, I would immediately shake their hand and tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out, regardless of their age, background, and situation. But that's just how I feel.

Why is this?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by aviatorrbt

Why is this?

Read DT's Why PFJ/PFT establishments are bad for the profession. . .it's nicely located on the Jetcareer's main page.

[mastermags]

Because these PFJ places are detrimental to the industry. For one, you are basically paying for a seat that requires a crewmember, ie. taking a pilot job away. In fact it's worse than that because flying for free would be taking a job away. Here, you are actually paying someone else to let you work. What if all aviation jobs required new hires to pay for their first few hundred hours. People show they are willing to do it at the regional level; why wouldn't they do it at the major or corporate level?

You might have seen how much tension the union vs. nonunion topic brings up amongst pilots. A lot of union pilots claim nonunion pilots are cheating the entire industry by working for lower rates. In a PFJ situation, you are willing to work for a lower rate, only after PAYING some freaking management type 3x as much as it would have cost you to get your CFI ratings in the first place. That doesn't sit well with me and it certainly doesn't sit well with most pilots.

Finally (and this is just my view of course), the main reason I see people go to these types of programs is to skip the CFI phase for whatever reason. In my eyes, working as a CFI is not only a great way to build time and experience, but also a great way to give something back to the aviation community and inspire others as you have been (pay it forward, right?). While I will admit that some people with airline aspirations have no business CFIing and should build their time another way, doing a PFJ type gig is a slap in the face to professional aviation. That is why I say if I'm doing the interviews, I'm showing you the door.

[surreal1221]

mastermags FTW!!!!11

[mastermags]

Is FTW an anagram for WTF?

[jtrain609]

For The Win

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by mastermags

If I was interviewing pilot candidates and I interviewed someone who went to one of the types of programs, I would immediately shake their hand and tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out, regardless of their age, background, and situation.

When I was interviewing CFI's at my old flight school, I did just that with a young man that had not only bought a block of multi time, but then paid to sit in the right seat of a Commander flying freight!!

Double whammy!!

Well, I didn't ask him to leave until I made an a$$ out of him . . .

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

When I was interviewing CFI's at my old flight school, I did just that with a young man that had not only bought a block of multi time, but then paid to sit in the right seat of a Commander flying freight!!

Waitasec...what's wrong with buying some multi time? You buy single time to build for the commercial license? What's wrong with renting a multi and flying it around for the same reason?

[mastermags]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

When I was interviewing CFI's at my old flight school, I did just that with a young man that had not only bought a block of multi time, but then paid to sit in the right seat of a Commander flying freight!!

Double whammy!!

Well, I didn't ask him to leave until I made an a$$ out of him . . .

Good for you!

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Waitasec...what's wrong with buying some multi time? You buy single time to build for the commercial license? What's wrong with renting a multi and flying it around for the same reason?

Go ahead and buy it . . . I'm not saying not to! Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Just not the kind of people I wanted working for me.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Go ahead and buy it . . . I'm not saying not to! Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Just not the kind of people I wanted working for me.

What about pilots who rented or owned for a long time and then decided to go professional. I have a friend who owns a bunch of dairy farms and decided to get his PPL/Inst. He showed interest in becoming a professional pilot at one point. Could he count any of his 172 rental time? Where do you draw the line? I think I understand what you intended to say, but I don't think it came out right.