Jobs with Foreign Airlines???

[kr575m]

I am a student pilot and new to the jetcareers forums. This is my first post....

I understand it is a definate advantage if you speak the language of the foreign airline you are flying for, but is it necessary to be fluent? I am very interested in one day flying for an asian carrier but at the moment only speak english.

Also, in general, how does flying for an asian airline compare to the ones in the U.S.? In terms or pay, working conditions, qualification requirements, etc?

Thanks in advance,

Kyle

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by kr575m

I am a student pilot and new to the jetcareers forums. This is my first post....

I understand it is a definate advantage if you speak the language of the foreign airline you are flying for, but is it necessary to be fluent? I am very interested in one day flying for an asian carrier but at the moment only speak english.

Also, in general, how does flying for an asian airline compare to the ones in the U.S.? In terms or pay, working conditions, qualification requirements, etc?

Thanks in advance,

Kyle

I met a guy who worked for cathay, he said that that company rocked. If you go to work for one of these companies, take language lessons, it will help make sure you guys stay safe

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by kr575m

I am a student pilot and new to the jetcareers forums. This is my first post....

I understand it is a definate advantage if you speak the language of the foreign airline you are flying for, but is it necessary to be fluent? I am very interested in one day flying for an asian carrier but at the moment only speak english.

Also, in general, how does flying for an asian airline compare to the ones in the U.S.? In terms or pay, working conditions, qualification requirements, etc?

Thanks in advance,

Kyle

Why would you work Int?

[mattp1803]

Originally Posted by fly8slep

Why would you work Int?

Some of these companies pay you very well, pay for your housing, and pay for your kids to be in private schools. Sounds good huh?

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by mattp1803

Some of these companies pay you very well, pay for your housing, and pay for your kids to be in private schools. Sounds good huh?

Besides Emirates and Cathay, I've heard to stay away from foreign airlines. Besides the industry here in the U.S is getting better anyways, everybody's hiring.

[N826AW]

I dream of living in Sydney and flying for Qantas.

[mattp1803]

Originally Posted by fly8slep

Besides Emirates and Cathay, I've heard to stay away from foreign airlines. Besides the industry here in the U.S is getting better anyways, everybody's hiring.

Yeah, I'm not really planning on going to the foreign airlines, but I've always heard good things about Emirates and Cathay Pacific.

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by fly8slep

Besides Emirates and Cathay, I've heard to stay away from foreign airlines. Besides the industry here in the U.S is getting better anyways, everybody's hiring.

Just because they're hiring doesn't mean the industry is getting better. In fact, I'd say the reason that a lot of regionals are hiring is because a lot of people are saying "I dont want to do this for such little pay/benefits".

In addition to the advantages that may be present with flying overseas, living overseas is pretty bitchin too.

[mattp1803]

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

Just because they're hiring doesn't mean the industry is getting better. In fact, I'd say the reason that a lot of regionals are hiring is because a lot of people are saying "I dont want to do this for such little pay/benefits".

In addition to the advantages that may be present with flying overseas, living overseas is pretty bitchin too.

True dat.

[kr575m]

I've lived abroad before and really enjoyed it. I've always wanted to live in Asia and I think I read a couple posts on here saying that the regionals pay better in Asia? Flying for Quantas would be a dream for me as well.

Those of you that know people working for Cathay, were they fairly fluent in Chinese before applying?

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by kr575m

I've lived abroad before and really enjoyed it. I've always wanted to live in Asia and I think I read a couple posts on here saying that the regionals pay better in Asia? Flying for Quantas would be a dream for me as well.

Those of you that know people working for Cathay, were they fairly fluent in Chinese before applying?

Language is not a problem with foreign airlines. If it was they just wouldn't hire non-citizens. Places like JAL, ANA, Korean, and many Asian carriers do not hire non-citizens for example. The only places that hire non-citizens are Cathay, Emirates, EVA, China Airlines, and Singapore, Indian airlines also hire noncitizens. Many of these airlines are not union, so bad or nonexistent work rules and there are a lot of politics you have to deal with within the pilot group. Just because they fly 747s and A340s doesn't mean it's the place to be at, and most put foreigners in their cargo divisions. Apparently EVA Air, an established good Asian carrier is one of the worst for pilots. Go to pprune.com

Most pilots from Cathay are from non Asian states.

[skyrunner1500]

Originally Posted by fly8slep

Language is not a problem with foreign airlines. If it was they just wouldn't hire non-citizens. Places like JAL, ANA, Korean, and many Asian carriers do not hire non-citizens for example. The only places that hire non-citizens are Cathay, Emirates, EVA, China Airlines, and Singapore, Indian airlines also hire noncitizens. Many of these airlines are not union, so bad or nonexistent work rules and there are a lot of politics you have to deal with within the pilot group. Just because they fly 747s and A340s doesn't mean it's the place to be at, and most put foreigners in their cargo divisions. Apparently EVA Air, an established good Asian carrier is one of the worst for pilots. Go to pprune.com

Most pilots from Cathay are from non Asian states.

Korean does hire foreign nationals. They now even started to interview non type rated pilots for positions on the 747 and 777. Singapore Airlines is much more difficult to get on with.

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by skyrunner1500

Korean does hire foreign nationals. They now even started to interview non type rated pilots for positions on the 747 and 777. Singapore Airlines is much more difficult to get on with.

Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm curious to see where you got this info about Korean.

[BugSmasher]

Your raise an interesting question. As a U.S. citizen, if I decide to fly for a living in the future, I'd definitely consider getting dual citizenship (an EU passport) through my mother, and paying for an ATPL course and a type rating down the road - just for job security.

I figure it might be smart to "globalize" myself once I have the money, because when airlines in the U.S. use Chapter 11 as a re-organizational tool, it forces pilots to accept poor compensation to maintain seniority. At the same time, pilot wages might increase in other countries where pilots are scarce and seniority is limited to yearly contracts.

Some carriers require that you have the right to live and work abroad. My (weak) understanding is that in EU countries, for example, you would need an EU passport, a frozen ATPL license, and a type rating to be hired. And, unless you have 3000+ hours of jet PIC time, it might be quite an expensive process to get your U.S. ATP "converted," from what I've been told.

Another disadvantage might be double-taxation for dual citizens.

I'm guessing that it all depends where you want to go and your experience level. Alitalia, Emirates, Cathay, JAL, Korean, and cargo supplementals have been know to hire U.S. pilots, as has NetJets Europe, and EasyJet, to name a few/ Some are reputed to obtain temporary visas for US pilots and accept the ATP, as well. I dunno, Im just happy to be flying for fun in the good ol' US of A. Your mileage may vary.

[nabd30]

Here are some important points concerning international aviation for anyone interested in working overseas:

1) Your first 85K of foreign-earned income isn't subject to US Fed Income Tax...you basically get a 85K deduction automatically. Most places in Asia and the Middle East take care of your locally incurred taxes either legally or financially, though there is some controversy over expat taxes in India right now.

2) Getting work permission is a subjective issue in every country. Generally speaking, in most Asian countries who bring in foreign pilots it isn't a problem. Same goes for the Middle East. On the other hand, unless you are a training captain with 500 hours or more command on type, there is basically no chance of getting work permission/visa for Austrailia or ANY EU country. New Zealand maybe, but definitely not the EU. It would seriously be easier to find a Brit or French wife and apply for dual citizenship.

One new exception to this rule--if you have 500-1000 hrs on type on an ATR , you have a good shot at getting a job in the EU...Aer Arann in Ireland is sponsoring work visas for expat (FAA) pilots with command hours on type on the ATR. Ryanair also states on their website that they will take you if you have 500 command on a 737, even if you're a foreigner.

3) If you have a EU passport or spouse, you can convert "fairly" easily if you have your FAA ATP, and very easily if you have 500 on type on a plane classified as JAR25 (basically any medium jet). In the second case, you simply take the 14 written exams (without a required 7 month ATP course) and take a checkride in a sim at a TRTO with a JAA examiner. There are also schools like pte.ie who can set up a customized conversion course.

4) Language is almost never a problem. Not sure if ya'll realized this, but English is the international language of aviation...how do you think that Cathay captain talks to ORD approach on his way in from Hong Kong? English. Or that Angolan Airlines pilot talking to Frankfurt departure? English. True--some local operators require the local language to be spoken in addition to English, but basically if an airline needs pilots badly enough that they have to bring in foreigners, they will bring in English-speaking foreigners. China Southern or Cathay or Emirates wouldn't have too much luck getting expat pilots if they required Catonese, Mandarin, Arabic, etc..

5) Once again generally speaking, getting jobs with majors overseas is much different than the US. In the US, we all know it's more about PIC jet time (1000 turbine PIC= golden). Going through contract agencies like Rishworth, PARC, and Aeropersonnel, etc., and getting placements in the Gulf, Africa, India, China, etc., is a different ballgame--it's more about your hours on type and seat position...i.e. if you have 1000 hours FO time on an ATR, you are better off getting an ATR contract with Kingfisher than a guy with 1000 hours captain time on a CRJ. Everything is seat and type specific. In addition, the US is one of the few places in the world where an FO can fly w/o a type-rating. The FAA accepts the airlines training for an FO. Overseas, however, a type rating is essential to fly anything over 12,500 lbs and/or with turbines. So flying a 737 as FO in the states you actually don't have to have a type...just SIC-qualified...overseas you have to have the type rating on your license.

6) If you want to fly in the exotic places of the world I suggest working for a US regional until you have 500 FO hours and/or type rated on the following a/cs:

ATR (ungodly amount of foreign carriers desperate for dudes on this type)...Aer Arann and others will sponsor an Irish work permit and license conversion if you have captain time on this...Kingfisher in India will also hire you if you have FO hours on type, a type rating, and an FAA ATPL.

ERJ/CRJ (some contracts in Africa come up fairly often if you have 500 FO on type and a type rating)

A320 (need 300 on type to be competitive)

There are, of course, hundreds of obscure ad-hoc freight, ACMI/ferrying/contingency, and charter/exec type ops out there...most of which you have to network your way into. There are people out there flying 737-200s, 747-200s, B-1900s, vans, and L-1011 Hercs in dangerous places all over the world right now. Soon, for example, there will be thousands of hours flown on the annual TDY Hajj contracts on old reliable 74s from Africa, Indonesia, and Asia to Mecca...I know a guy who does these, and you can sometimes get hooked up if you have a 74 classic type and maybe some jet time/FEx time.

[Louie1975]

Nabd30 you have got some good info! Question: When Aer Arann advertises for FAA pilots and says they will sponsor the work permit, my understanding is that that will take care of the 'right to live and work there' requirement. But what about the JAA license? You can fly a European registered aircraft with FAA certificates? Or must you still do the conversion. Cause the conversion is a long process!

Also, what do you know about ferrying? i am looking to get into ferrying, specifically ferrying aircraft from US to Europe.

[Tweet46]

I can only speak for New Zealand and Australia as I going throught the process with Air New Zealand.

For most companies you will need to have proof of citizenship or a permanent resident visa. This will preclude most Americans from working there unless they can qualify for the PR Visa. I did this through my wife who is a Kiwi. Also the PR Visa process can be very cumbersome and expensive. (approx $1300). Also you will need to convert your FAA certificates over to their equivilents...also a major pain)

Hope this helps a little.

[typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by nabd30

3) If you have a EU passport or spouse, you can convert "fairly" easily if you have your FAA ATP, and very easily if you have 500 on type on a plane classified as JAR25 (basically any medium jet). In the second case, you simply take the 14 written exams (without a required 7 month ATP course) and take a checkride in a sim at a TRTO with a JAA examiner. There are also schools like pte.ie who can set up a customized conversion course.

Excellent post nabd. I would disagree with the "simply take 14 written exams" portion though. Typically it would take a minimum of 6 months, probably longer, to work through all 14 exams. JAA exams do not have the questions and answers published like FAA exams. You have have to learn the material.

I dream of living in Sydney and flying for Qantas.

Unfortunately Qantas has become like the U.S. legacies. The management are trying to reduce conditions for the pilots, primarily through outsourcing. They have started low cost divisions Jetstar and Jetstar International. Most all growth is going to those divisions so the mainline Qantas guys are stagnating.

Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm curious to see where you got this info about Korean.

Korean as well as Asiana have had expat pilots for decades. Previously it was only Captains. KAL are now hiring type rated First Officers on the 747-400. They are also hiring Captains without type rating on the B777, but that person must have significant heavy PIC time. KAL is a good job, but it is a commuting job. You work about 21 days on followed by 9 off. The good part of that commute is that it is positive space and is counted as a work day from any KAL destination.

In regards to language skills, it is certainly helpful in some jobs, but not required. English is the language for aviation worldwide ( well, except in France ).


Typhoonpilot

[CaptainCrickettMan]

Originally Posted by fly8slep

Besides Emirates and Cathay, I've heard to stay away from foreign airlines. Besides the industry here in the U.S is getting better anyways, everybody's hiring.

!LOL!


Personally, I wouldn't mind getting on with Lufthansa. Whatever it takes. Ich spreche schlects deutsch. But Emirates is looking fantastic. Great benefits and tax free dinero.

Thai airways doesn't hire foreigners but you need only 250hrs to qualify. Training is 7+ months.