Thank You, AA - (story)

[killbilly]

It has been a lousy week - (in fact, a pretty lousy month so far with no end in sight) but this week has been particularly lousy with work, with travel, and with a bunch of personal-life crap I'm not going to get into here. Suffice it to say, I've not been a real happy camper lately.

Leaving Springfield, MO yesterday I knew I was going to miss my flight out of STL, and the next couple, too, so I said screw it, changed the flight to this morning and checked into another Hampton, ate some Arby's, talked with the g/f for a while on the phone and went to bed.

This morning I go to check in. The kiosk asks me if I wanted to upgrade for $45, so I thought what the hell, do it. The machine thinks for a moment and then says, "sorry, I can't do that." (some kind of ticket issue.) So THAT's got me grumbling.

Security at STL was slooooow and the TSA's operation resembled an old woman trying to kill a frog with an oboe. When I finally got to the gate, the gate area was empty.

Fearing that I was screwed the agent looks at me, says 'you've got plenty of time, don't worry....oh...I see you tried to upgrade, right?'

"Yeah. Couldn't do it."

"Well, you can now. Here you go. Seat 1B."

Which helped a lot. So I'm sitting there, and watching this 757 crew preflight the plane. I tell the FA quietly that I'm an aspiring pilot, and wondered if I might stick my head in the cockpit and say hi. She was enthusiastic and said sure, no prob. She asked the CA and FO if I could come up front and they were happy to have me.

So I stick my head in, looking around, introduce myself. The FO immediately says, 'hey, come on in here, you don't have to hover in the doorway.'

Super, super nice guys. I chatted for a minute or two, and started to take my leave, and they told me to stay a bit, we had time. "Aren't you guys kind of busy?"

The CA kinda shrugs, says, "Nah, we're not doing much right now."

They asked about my plans, I told them, expecting them to tell me not to get into the field as so many crews have done. The CA looks at the FO and says, "Y'know, the financial aspect isn't what it used to be, true. But I still love to fly, and I love coming to work every day. If you love flying, then go for it."

The way I'd been feeling lately, I almost cried right then.

So we chat a few more minutes. The FO had done the FBO/CFI thing and had been with AA for 16 years. He's about 100 from the top for upgrade. The CA has over 30 years in with 3 different airlines. Don't know how or where he trained, presumably military but I didn't get a chance to ask.

Anyway, I went back to my seat feeling a little better, a little more inspired.

To the gate agent, FA, and crew, I say thanks. They did a lot more for me than they realize.

Just thought I'd share.

[Cruise]

Nice story KB....thanks for sharing. It's great to hear the crew didn't instantly try to convince you to stay away from Aviation as a career.

Kudos to all who played a part in your experience!!!!

[Qgar]

Good for you! Always nice to hear a story like that!!

[Murdoughnut]

You're lucky - most of the AA crews I've tried to talk to have turned out to be AAholes.

[falconvalley]

Awesome story!

[LoadMasterC141]

Good for you Bill! Always fun for us wannabes to get to chat with supernice guys in the flight deck.

[ready2fly]

Good stuff, Bill.

[flyTotheSky]

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

You're lucky - most of the AA crews I've tried to talk to have turned out to be AAholes.

[Captain_Bob]

Awesome story Billy!!

Bob

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by killbilly

So we chat a few more minutes. The FO had done the FBO/CFI thing and had been with AA for 16 years. He's about 100 from the top for upgrade.

Let me get this right. You were "inspired" by an F/O who has been yanking gear for SIXTEEN years and still can't hold a Captain position? Whatever torques your wrench.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Let me get this right. You were "inspired" by an F/O who has been yanking gear for SIXTEEN years and still can't hold a Captain position? Whatever torques your wrench.

No, Vel, not in that context at all.

I was inspired to meet a couple of nice professionals who really like their jobs. For all I know the FO had been a CA and had been bumped back at some point. Maybe he likes his sched and doesn't want to upgrade. Or maybe he was a CA somewhere else. I really don't know what his full story is - there just wasn't time.

[staplegun]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Let me get this right. You were "inspired" by an F/O who has been yanking gear for SIXTEEN years and still can't hold a Captain position? Whatever torques your wrench.

Velo,

How many ex-wives do you have, again...?


Kevin

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Let me get this right. You were "inspired" by an F/O who has been yanking gear for SIXTEEN years and still can't hold a Captain position? Whatever torques your wrench.

Can't hold, or Doesn't want to hold? Probably a big difference there.

Velo, I would bet that your glass is always Half-Empty. But Hey, Whatever Torques your wrench.

[staplegun]

Originally Posted by JEP

Velo, I would bet that your glass is always Half-Empty. But Hey, Whatever Torques your wrench.

That's kinda what I was trying to say, in an oblique sort of way...




Kevin

[mrivc211]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Let me get this right. You were "inspired" by an F/O who has been yanking gear for SIXTEEN years and still can't hold a Captain position? Whatever torques your wrench.

Way to kill the mood man!

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by JEP

Can't hold, or Doesn't want to hold? Probably a big difference there.

Can't hold. You obviously don't know how AA works.

First, there are probably 2,000 AA pilots still on furlough. Second, AA has an "up or out" policy. You have one year after the guy junior to you upgrades to bid Captain. After you have upgraded, you MAY elect to go back to the right seat, but most of the guys only do that for widebody flying. Since this was a 757, its doubtful that this F/O is there willingly. Most likely he was displaced back to the right seat during the last round of AA furloughs.

16 YEARS. Lets see. I was an F/O for 6 years and that seems interminable. SIXTEEN?!? What our friend should have taken from this encounter was that the airline business is notoriously fickle. You could be on top of the world one day, making industry leading wages and the next have your throat cut by the bankruptcy court, taking home a jetBlue paycheck and wondering where your pension went. Ask any Delta pilot.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

What our friend should have taken from this encounter was that the airline business is notoriously fickle. You could be on top of the world one day, making industry leading wages and the next have your throat cut by the bankruptcy court, taking home a jetBlue paycheck and wondering where your pension went. Ask any Delta pilot.

I understand this - actually understood this before I ever stepped foot on that plane.

But the guy seemed fairly happy. Maybe he's boiling inside and he's going to have a full-bore thrombo over the stress and anger.

Or maybe he's found a way to deal and he's fairly happy with his pay and scheduling control.

He certainly wasn't bitter that I could tell.

<shrug>

[LoadMasterC141]

Can you imagine if you walked into Velocipede's cockpit Billy? You would probably pull the escape hatch at FL340 and end it all. Good thing you ran into pilot's that have a positive outlook on life.

[BobDDuck]

Naw.... Velo's glass isn't half empty... It's cracked and leaking out the bottom!

There are a lot of guys at Airways who are going to be life time FOs. Many of them are very angry about it and many of them have resigned themselves to that fact and are trying to make the best of it and enjoy their time flying. See... my guess is when your FO has 20 years in the airplane, some captains pretty much let them run their own legs how they want. It's only a seat and a pay check ya know?

[gcman6]

That was a great story. It's inspiring because that is the kind of person/pilot I want to be some day.

[bike21]

Nice story man, don't let the naysayers bring a brother down

[P&H]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Let me get this right. You were "inspired" by an F/O who has been yanking gear for SIXTEEN years and still can't hold a Captain position? Whatever torques your wrench.

I don't know what era you fly in Velocipede, but my captain pulls gear as much as I do. I know a few pilots who could have upgraded years ago, but decided that their seniority as F/Os is as valuable as their ability to choose their schedules and days off.

Either way, right now is a great time for killbilly to get into the game. Everyone is hiring, even the majors, imagine that.

Killbilly, how old are you and have you started flying yet? If this is what you really want to do for a living, you won't be happy until you do it. Just don't compromise your dignity when you do decide to take the plunge and work for some outfit like gojets. Otherwise, good luck.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by P&H

Killbilly, how old are you and have you started flying yet? If this is what you really want to do for a living, you won't be happy until you do it. Just don't compromise your dignity when you do decide to take the plunge and work for some outfit like gojets. Otherwise, good luck.

Thank you.

33, and no, not yet. Getting there. Trying to go the debt-free route, which will happen after my house sells. I hope.

[Velocipede]

Can you imagine if you walked into Velocipede's cockpit Billy? You would probably pull the escape hatch at FL340 and end it all.

You might be surprised. And besides that, you can try to open the window or doors all you want at FL 340, but they ain't coming open. Even for you, Superman.

Velo's glass isn't half empty... It's cracked and leaking out the bottom

Actually, my glass is fine. Its just a LOT of youngsters on this board either don't want to recognize reality or are afraid to admit reality. And the reality is that, for the most part, they're going to be stuck slogging along in the regionals for a LONG time. Now, that's one thing if you're at Horizon and knocking down a decent Captain's wage. Most of those guys won't leave because life at QX is too good to go to the right seat for 1/4 of what they're making. But that's an individual decision.

You HAVE to recognize the fact that there are a lot of AA furloughees who, like AAA guys, will never see the left seat. Is that really your aspiration? To be a permanent F/O? If so, most Major airlines don't want you. They only hire Captain material, even if you'll never get there.

I don't know what era you fly in Velocipede, but my captain pulls gear as much as I do.

And how many command decisions do you make during the day? No, don't answer. ZERO. That's what "yanking the gear" refers to. But, you knew that. Admit it. F/Os are basicly safety pilots. Realisicly, your input is limited to safety of flight questions. Do you really expect us to believe you are co-equal in the cockpit? Of course you're not. Unless a Captain is incompetent, dangerous or incapacitated, you are pretty much limited in what you can do. Try this next time you're flying. On your next takeoff, go for an unannounced low transition to a max performance climb and see how long it takes your Skipper to say, "I've got the jet."

You know its true. That's why the F/O's mantra when asked a question like "How much fuel do you want?" is (while pointing to his stripes) "One, two, three, don't ask me!"

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Can't hold. You obviously don't know how AA works.

And you would know this.....how?

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Second, AA has an "up or out" policy. You have one year after the guy junior to you upgrades to bid Captain. After you have upgraded, you MAY elect to go back to the right seat, but most of the guys only do that for widebody flying. Since this was a 757, its doubtful that this F/O is there willingly. Most likely he was displaced back to the right seat during the last round of AA furloughs.

re: bolded section:

True. But that contradicts your statement that he's been a FO for 16 years now doesn't it?

As far as your number of furloughed pilots at AA - I'd recheck that. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure all or most of the AA pilots have either already returned or have been offered class dates.

I know for certain that all of the "flow back" AA pilots that were at Eagle are back at AA. AA is now working on getting the TWA/Flow-through pilots on board.