Skywest doing the branded thing?

[jtrain609]

It's a pay cut every year because the 2% raise can't even keep up with inflation.

Another screw job by Skywest managment.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

It's a pay cut every year because the 2% raise can't even keep up with inflation.

Another screw job by Skywest managment.

Do they get a 2% raise per year? That's pretty nice. We only get 1.5%. What does XJT get?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

It's a pay cut every year because the 2% raise can't even keep up with inflation.

Another screw job by Skywest managment.

You mentioned this in our phone conversation a few days ago.

I forgot to ask, and not that it makes it okay in the long run, but what company (public or private) provides raises per year that exceed, or keep up with inflation? Minus Google (lol).

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Do they get a 2% raise per year? That's pretty nice. We only get 1.5%. What does XJT get?

There is a raise every year but I'm not sure of the percentage, I'll have to look at the contract/LOA's to come up with it. I'll get back to you.

EDIT: And I don't think they get a 2% raise every year, I think it was a one time thing. Can a Skywest guy make that a little clearer?

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

You mentioned this in our phone conversation a few days ago.

I forgot to ask, and not that it makes it okay in the long run, but what company (public or private) provides raises per year that exceed, or keep up with inflation? Minus Google (lol).

T-Mobile does

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

EDIT: And I don't think they get a 2% raise every year, I think it was a one time thing. Can a Skywest guy make that a little clearer?

Me neither. I was referring to the 2% override.

[FlyChicaga]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Do they get a 2% raise per year? That's pretty nice. We only get 1.5%. What does XJT get?

5.5%-6% when you count both longevity and contractual raises. Splits evenly between the two. I got a $2 an hour raise in August, and I'll get another $2 raise in December. That is a 5.9% raise for the year. I'm just concerned that our profit sharing will be non-existent in January.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

5.5%-6% when you count both longevity and contractual raises. Splits evenly between the two. I got a $2 an hour raise in August, and I'll get another $2 raise in December. That is a 5.9% raise for the year. I'm just concerned that our profit sharing will be non-existent in January.

My increase last year was 40%...

What I'm asking is what is the yearly COLA added to your pay rates?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

T-Mobile does

Hot, T-Mobile have the Treo?

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Hot, T-Mobile have the Treo?

No, but you can use any unlocked GSM Treo with them.

FYI: The Sony P990i and Nokia E61i are far better phones.

[Bigscrb15]

good lord, with all this talk about skywest not paying well, I am cancelling my class date.... Off to Gulfstream I go!!!

[Van_Hoolio]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Okay I'll tell you what. I'll go ahead and vote yes just for you. I'll take a paycut next year so you can get an extra dollar your first year with little to look forward to the following year. Then when they start negotiating the contract, I'll get out and move on while you go on strike to get things back the way they are now. Then when SkyWest starts furloughing for the first time in 35 years, you'll be the first to go.

Or, how about I vote no, and you can put up with slightly lower than average pay for one year, and then find yourself with some of the best QOL you can find in the industry.

If the vote is held anytime soon, you won't have a vote being there less than a year, right?

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

A union DOES NOT have to put a wall between managment and the pilots, it is simply A WAY OF COMMUNICATING.

That's what SAPA is for, and they are free.

If you think it's all about pay rates, it's not. Express' work rules compare to Skywest's and the pay rates are still HIGHER on SMALLER aircraft...I don't think the Skywest pilot group is a bad group of people, but I think you guys are getting the short end of the stick...And that's what I don't understand. You're getting hosed on your pay rates,...

Okay lets's settle this pay argument once and for all. Lets compare a 4 year career at SkyWest vs. a 4 year career at ExpressJet and see who gets paid more. Looks like your upgrade times are sitting at about 2 years. Ours are just over a year, but for the sake of this discussion we'll assume 2 years on both carriers. Feel free to double check my math.

First let's compare FO rates on the CRJ200 vs. ERJ135:
1st year SKW = $19 vs. XJT = $23. 2nd year SKW = $35 vs. XJT = $34. So after the first 2 years the SKW pilot makes an average of $27 while the XJT pilot averages $28.50. XJT pilot has a slight advantage. Even after dues you probably come out on top.

But now lest's say our FOs are flying the CRJ700/900 vs. ERJ145:
1st year SKW = $19 vs. XJT = $23. 2nd year SKW = $37 vs. XJT $34. In this case after 2 years the SKW pilot averages $28 while the XJT pilot averages $28.50. We're catching up to you, but you had to pay dues so......

Alright its been two years now and both our pilots have upgraded so we'll compare 3rd and 4th year captain rates CRJ200 vs. ERJ135:
3rd year SKW = $60 vs. XJT = $56. 4th year SKW = $62 vs. XJT $58. In this case the 3rd and 4th years the SKW pilot averages $61 while the XJT pilot averages $57, bringing the 4 year averages to SKW = $44, vs. XJT = $42.75. We've beat you now, and you still haven't paid your dues yet.

If our captains are flying the CRJ700/900 and the ERJ145:
3rd year SKW = $63 vs. XJT = $62. 4th year SKW = $65 vs. XJT $64. In this case the 3rd and 4th years the SKW pilot averages $64 while the XJT pilot averages $63, bringing the 4 year averages to SKW = $46 vs. XJT = $45.75. Still got you beat. Of course we still haven't considered dues. Or upgrade times.

Now if we consider a 50/50 split of CRJ200/700&900 and ERJ135/145, then after 4 years the SKW pilot will average $45 while the XJT pilot will average $44.25. We come out ahead, we didn't pay dues, and we probably upgraded sooner and made captain pay sooner. Who's getting hosed now? You have to consider the long run. Don't just look at first year rates and say we're getting hosed. We only make first year pay for one year.

Now I wouldn't say you're getting hosed. You all have a good thing going at Express, and the union seems to be working well for you. But, as you can see, our pay rates meet or exceed yours, and our work rules are comparable. We've never had a strike. Never had a furlough. I'd say we've got a good thing going on, and we seem to be doing pretty well without a union. What would the union do? Increase our pay even farther above yours? Make our work rules even better than they are now? Perhaps they might add some job security, but the possibility of a strike or fulough kind of offsets that.

And pay rates aside, don't you guys realize that the company could come in tomorrow and say, "$35 an hour second year? We think $25 an hour is more competitive and that's what you'll be flying for. Don't like it? We've got a stack of Mesa pilots that'd LOVE to work for that pay rate and our work rules that are already qualified in the aircraft, so ya'll can take it or piss off."

Who's to say they won't think $25 per hour is more competative come contract time. If we don't like it we can strike. You're right. That's much better. In the mean time, they're already taking evey Mesa pilot that applies, and we can't fill our classes. A sudden decision to dramatically lower pay is not something I'm worried about right now. But you are correct. ALPA has done so well for Mesa that thier pilots would LOVE to fly for a non-union carrier and get paid slightly more than they would if they went to Express.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Van_Hoolio

If the vote is held anytime soon, you won't have a vote being there less than a year, right?

Well if I don't get to vote, the ALPA representatives sure wasted a lot of their time trying to convince me and the rest of my new-hire class to vote them in. If I don't get to vote, that's fine with me. At least I got lots of free dinners.

[wheelsup]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Welcome to Flightinfo.

[Doug Taylor]

No doubt.

[surreal1221]

Nah, no where close. . .yet. Still running a good shop here Dough, no worries.

[Gonzo]

Flyguy is this your first real job?

P.S. pay is nothing without work rules. Work rules are nothing without someone or something to keep them in place. If you like SAPA way not try to make them the official collective bargaining representativeand give them real bargaining power.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

I'm just concerned that our profit sharing will be non-existent in January.

You can kiss that check goodbye, IMO. We're facing some challenges right now with the new transition. It'll take some time if we're to get back to a profitable state.

[little_cricket]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Historically SAPA has done a pretty good job making sure we keep our jobs, and they are free.

Ask Don Douglas about how good SAPA does protecting the innocent from vengeful CP....

SAPA is nothing more but a management puppet that insulates them. Ask the last President of SAPA. While I am not the biggest fan of ALPA, they are the lesser of two evil.

As for SAPA being free, you and I are actually paying for through the reduction (nickel and dime) of benefits and work rules.

A few examples:

Increase health care costs

Loss of cancellation pay

Reserve Bucket System

PBS

Ready reserve

Loss annual bonus, replaced by inferior performance rewards

No COL increases

No change in Vacation/User accrual rates in 15 years

On again, off again, on again new hire pay

Double bunking in training


All these changes with little or no input from SAPA!!! And, these are the ones off the top of my head.... I am sure that the list can be added to.

If the choice is between having SAPA and nothing, I would choose nothing. Because, at least then the problems would be directly address instead of told to talk you SAPA rep (and nothing happens) or fill out a PIC (and nothing happens). It is time to end the masquerade!!!

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Welcome to Flightinfo.

True dat.

I'm out, it ain't worth trying to argue this one out because some people are cool with gettin' screwed.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Flyguy is this your first real job?

P.S. pay is nothing without work rules. Work rules are nothing without someone or something to keep them in place. If you like SAPA way not try to make them the official collective bargaining representativeand give them real bargaining power.

Well I hear very very very few complaints about our work rules, so there must be someone keeping them in place enough. Yes I do hear about an occasional pen-stoke policy change, or a difference in opinion in interpretations of a policy, but those occasions are few and far between and even though it does happen, we still come way out ahead of most carriers. I will say that SkyWest is the only airline whome I've never heard a single employee say its not a good place to work. Even the ALPA propogandists told me its a great company to work for. Question: What is the difference between SAPA and a barganing representative with "real bargaining power"? Answer: The ability to strike.

As for this being my first real job I'll be honest and say it is. But that is an interresting point you bring up. In my short time at SkyWest I've talked with many pilots who have been at other carriers, and a few who have not. I've not flown with a single captain in favor of ALPA. Not one. Most of the new-hires in my class came from other airlines. 8 out of 25 from Mesa. How many of them in favor of ALPA? Zero. In fact, do you know how many pilots I've come across in favor of ALPA? Three. Yep, out of all of the people I've flown with, trainied with, and crossed paths with, I've found 3 who admit to being in favor of ALPA. How many of those three had worked at other airlines before SkyWest? Zero. Isn't it interresting that the few that I've come across who are in favor of ALPA are those who this is their first real job too. While those who have been to other carriers (union carriers) are fine without ALPA. Could it be that those who have never been anywhere else don't know how good they have it? Now, admittedly I haven't had much time to talk with much of a cross section of the pilot group. The last captain I flew with said he estimated about 1/3 of those he's came across are in favor of ALPA. I certainly don't know the breakdown of who of those were at other airlines, but 2/3 of all the pilots he's come across agree with me at least to some extent. Yeah I'm a newbie, but I'm a fast learner, and I've done my research.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

True dat.

I'm out, it ain't worth trying to argue this one out because some people are cool with gettin' screwed.

Man, I just proved to you that we are getting no more screwed than you are. Obviosly you're too lazy to read my post. Maybe if you get furloughed you'll do your research and realize SKW isn't so bad. If so, I'll be happy to write you an LOR.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Well I hear very very very few complaints about our work rules, so there must be someone keeping them in place enough. Yes I do hear about an occasional pen-stoke policy change, or a difference in opinion in interpretations of a policy, but those occasions are few and far between and even though it does happen, we still come way out ahead of most carriers. I will say that SkyWest is the only airline whome I've never heard a single employee say its not a good place to work. Even the ALPA propogandists told me its a great company to work for. Question: What is the difference between SAPA and a barganing representative with "real bargaining power"? Answer: The ability to strike.

Real bargaining power can get a contract set in stone. So there can't be the occasional pen-stoke policy change.

[FlyChicaga]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Okay lets's settle this pay argument once and for all. Lets compare a 4 year career at SkyWest vs. a 4 year career at ExpressJet and see who gets paid more.

You just compared the SkyWest 50-seat rates to our 37-seat rates, then compared our 50-seat rates to your 70/90-seat rates. Not to mention that our 37-seat payscale is only for when you are actually flying the ERJ-135, so even on the 37-seat payscale you will get 50-seat pay each time you fly the ERJ-145. We have 30 ERJ-135s out of 274 airframes.

I'm not exactly pro-ALPA. But I am definitely pro-career protection and quality of life improvements. Why be happy making $70,000 with 12 days off when you know you are worth so much more? I want time off to spend with my family, and money to support them comfortably. This career is not the end-all, be-all of my life like it is for some people.