Time credited

[X-Forces]

Can anyone give a brief explanation between the difference between time flown and time credited during a monthly bid period?

I understand the fundamental difference between the two, I guess what I am really wondering is if you often credit more time then actually flown, and if so how? What is the time credited to if not flight time?

Deadheads, Cancellations, etc?

Just wondering how it all works, as I am getting closer to "The other dimension"

Thanks

[BobDDuck]

There are all sorts of things that make up your "credit" time for a month.

First off, your "time flown" is simply that. It normally with either the tires rolling, the door closing or an engine starting or some combination things. It ends when the brake is set and the door opens or some other combination. That is your "flight time" and is used to figure FAR legalities (30 hours in 7 days, 100 hours in a month, 1000 hours in a year) and is what you would be logging in a log book.

Credit is what you are payed for every month. Depending on the contract credit can come from many different things. *Most* places pay you block or better which means that if a leg is scheduled for 1 hour but it only takes 50 minutes to complete you will get paid for 1 hour anyways. Also, if it takes 1:10 to complete you will get paid for 1:10. Credit also comes from deadheads (some times paid 100% some times paid 50%), cancellations due to weather, ATC or MX or training events. We get paid 3:36 for every day we are in training. Other possible credit time could come from vacation.

I've purposely left out work rules until now. Basically, if your contract is good you may get trip or duty rigs as well which guarantee a certain amount of pay for every day you go to work (so you might only fly 2 hours one day but your min guarantee is 4 so you would be paid 4) or you might get 1.5 time for working on a scheduled day off.

In a good contract environment it's not too hard to credit almost twice what you've flown in a given month. Unfortunately, at the regional level, those good contracts are sort of hard to come by and very few places have them.

[X-Forces]

Thanks Bob, that was exactly what I was looking for.

[kellwolf]

Also you can factor high speeds and DHs into the picture as well. DHs don't count towards the FARs since it's not "flight time," but they do count towards your monthly credit. High speeds generally pay a premium as well since you're more or less flying the back of the clock.

[X-Forces]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Also you can factor high speeds and DHs into the picture as well. DHs don't count towards the FARs since it's not "flight time," but they do count towards your monthly credit. High speeds generally pay a premium as well since you're more or less flying the back of the clock.

What exactly is a "High Speed" anyway?

Thanks.

[whaleroast]

Originally Posted by X-Forces

What exactly is a "High Speed" anyway?

Thanks.

It's a form of torture, otherwise known as a continuous duty overnight. You basically fly out somewhere late and fly back early in the morning with a break ranging between 4 to 7 hours, usually spent either napping at a hotel, watching reruns of Mel's Diner, Mama's Family, Girls Gone Wild infomercials, surfing the net or a combination of them all the while jacked up on caffine. Of course, if you work at Mesa then you can expect to spend the night sleeping on the plane, or so I have heard. Anyway, you are considered on duty the entire time until you return to your hub in the morning, at which time you wander back to your house or crash pad in a kind of daze and sleep until 1 or 2 in the afternoon, at which time you awake and wonder where the heck you are and what time it is.

Did I miss anything?

Actually, they're not that bad, although you really can't make any money if you're holding a highspeed line because they usually are credited fewer hours than a regualr line due to the fact you are only flying one or maybe two legs each day.

[kellwolf]

It really depends, though. Sometimes, for commuters, high speeds lines can work out better since the show on the first day is way late and the release on the last day is way early. Down side is you'll have to get a hotel in the middle, but I've heard of some hotels in DTW that have a late check-out policy, thus enabling you to get a 2-for-1 deal on the hotel room. Check in on day 2 at like 9 am, fly the high speed, come back on day 3, sleep, check-out at 5 pm, go fly day 3.

There's a high speed outta MEM to IAH that actually nets you MORE rest than my last reduced rest overnight. Go figure.

[BobDDuck]

A few of our high speeds have more then 8 hours. The problem is our CDOs are straight pay. The only benefit is you fly very few hours (normally 50 something) and get paid guarantee.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

A few of our high speeds have more then 8 hours. The problem is our CDOs are straight pay. The only benefit is you fly very few hours (normally 50 something) and get paid guarantee.

Same here. I think our CDO's are in the realm of 3:45 min, no matter what the block time is. So you could get paid nearly four hours for a MSP-RST-MSP high speed with a block of like 1:30 total. If you're not totally dead on your off days, you could pick stuff up out of open time, and that would be above guarantee no matter what.

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by whaleroast

It's a form of torture, otherwise known as a continuous duty overnight. You basically fly out somewhere late and fly back early in the morning with a break ranging between 4 to 7 hours, usually spent either napping at a hotel, watching reruns of Mel's Diner, Mama's Family, Girls Gone Wild infomercials, surfing the net or a combination of them all the while jacked up on caffine. Of course, if you work at Mesa then you can expect to spend the night sleeping on the plane, or so I have heard. Anyway, you are considered on duty the entire time until you return to your hub in the morning, at which time you wander back to your house or crash pad in a kind of daze and sleep until 1 or 2 in the afternoon, at which time you awake and wonder where the heck you are and what time it is....

So basically it's like flying cargo? I can't wait!

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Same here. I think our CDO's are in the realm of 3:45 min, no matter what the block time is. So you could get paid nearly four hours for a MSP-RST-MSP high speed with a block of like 1:30 total. If you're not totally dead on your off days, you could pick stuff up out of open time, and that would be above guarantee no matter what.

When you're on a high-speed like that, can you just go nap in the crew room for a few hours instead of spending the money on a hotel?

[Cruise]

Other non-block time credits are repositions (like gate 7 to 9...or mx hanger to gate) and run-ups.

[X-Forces]

Originally Posted by Cruise

Other non-block time credits are repositions (like gate 7 to 9...or mx hanger to gate) and run-ups.

Does that ever really add up to much?

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by X-Forces

Does that ever really add up to much?

Nah....but hey, if I did it, I want to be PAID FOR IT!

Around these parts, we get :10 for repo and :15 for run-up. Typically adds up to another 4 hours/ per month esp. for those who have the first flight of the day lines.

[X-Forces]

Originally Posted by Cruise

Nah....but hey, if I did it, I want to be PAID FOR IT!

Around these parts, we get :10 for repo and :15 for run-up. Typically adds up to another 4 hours/ per month esp. for those who have the first flight of the day lines.

Hey, that works for me.

I have a real issue with working for free.


Work = Pay

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by X-Forces

I have a real issue with working for free.


Work = Pay

You might not want to work for the airlines then, you'll do a lot of that.

[kellwolf]

Wheels has a point. All the time spent doing the walkaround, programming the FMS, before start check, and post flight inspection are done free of charge by me. In the other seat, the CA checks the logbooks, fights with dispatch over fuel, flight deck inspection checks, before start checks, post flight shutdown checks and terminating checks free of charge. Essentially if you SEE a pilot, they aren't getting paid.

As for the hotel on the high speeds.....company pays for it, I'm gonna sleep in the hotel room, not the crew room. We're required to get the hotel room, even on a high speed. At least it ain't Mesa.

[BobDDuck]

<p>

Originally Posted by X-Forces

Does that ever really add up to much?

</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>

keep in mind most CAs are making at least a dollar a minute at the regional level. A repo from the gate to remote parking is $12 for them. Granted there is no pay for the 12 minutes it takes to walk or ride back...

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

You might not want to work for the airlines then, you'll do a lot of that.

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Wheels has a point. All the time spent doing the walkaround, programming the FMS, before start check, and post flight inspection are done free of charge by me. In the other seat, the CA checks the logbooks, fights with dispatch over fuel, flight deck inspection checks, before start checks, post flight shutdown checks and terminating checks free of charge. Essentially if you SEE a pilot, they aren't getting paid.

As for the hotel on the high speeds.....company pays for it, I'm gonna sleep in the hotel room, not the crew room. We're required to get the hotel room, even on a high speed. At least it ain't Mesa.

Or go to airline that doesn't have ACARS (not yet anyway).....so you call your own times. It's not too hard to 'adjust' your time over the course of the day to have pre/post flight stuff covered (at least a good portion of it).

[X-Forces]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

You might not want to work for the airlines then, you'll do a lot of that.

Well, of course I meant within reason.

I ran my own company for the last 5 years before we moved back to the U.S.A., and I had to do a lot of work on the cuff just to gain more business, so it won't be anything new.