Airlines Brace for Shortage of Pilots

[Old Pete]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Those idiots that join the military for low pay, because they love it and believe in what they're doing . . .

Thanks for your service. seriously, no sarcasm.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by flyover

There's a saying that goes something like: "Follow your heart, not your wallet." Many others have written about financial success that followed after they just went for their dream. It sure worked in my case, and I've known others that it worked for too. Others I've known who have spent their lives chasing money were pretty miserable.

I think we're talking about the same thing but going at it different ways. I work to live. I expect my paycheck to be large enough so that when I am not working I can live it up.

It's not chasing the money to say, look, there's no way I can deal with a paycut of 60 percent just so I can carry around a business card that says airline pilot. Especially when I won't get back to where I am as far as income goes for five or six years.

Especially since taking that kind of compensation means that I won't be able to afford to do the things that I really enjoy.

On $20K a year, I'd barely be able to afford to pay the mortgage and the bare necessities. Maybe.

That ain't living.

Now I'm not saying that there aren't people willing to take that big paycut.

I'm just saying there are a lot of people who simply can't.

If I were married then yes I could.

But the mortgage company and the insurance company won't take a "but I'm working for an airline" as payment. So I can't.

At $20K a year, my take home pay each paycheck would be something like $600. With a mortgage that runs about $850 a month -- and that's a bargoon around here -- that leaves me with $350 a month for everything else.

The numbers don't work, and for a lot of people, these numbers mean they can't make the jump.

[scramjet]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Well, FedEx isn't having trouble finding pilots. Then again, they aren't actively hiring right now, either.

Picking the top tier of the industry and saying they aren't having problems filling slots, to me, isn't a very realistic argument. Those pilots came from somewhere, therefore they're leaving a spot vacant. Unless they're coming from the military, odds are it's another airline with an open seat. I have no doubts that those top places mentioned don't have problems getting people, but the places those pilots come from probably DO have problems filling seats. Let's take NJC. They don't have problems filling holes b/c things suck at the regionals. Even FOs are leaving to go to NJC, despite the fact they'd be upgrading in a few months at whatever regional they're currently at (we lose a ton of guys here at PCL to NJC, most from the FO side). So, now PCL is short experienced FOs that were close to upgrading to CA. Now, let's look at FedEx (assuming they were hiring). Let's say they get a bunch of guys from Delta and CAL. Now DAL and CAL have slots to fill. So, they'll probably hire regional CAs. Now the regionals not only have the FOs diving for the fractionals to back fill, but they've got CAs leaving for the majors. Now, it double hurts that those FOs went to NJC since a majority of their FO work force is inexperienced and unable to upgrade due to time issues. Eventually, with the cost of learning to fly, it's gonna get even tighter at the regionals. With fewer guys at the regionals, it's gonna (eventually) get tighter at places that aren't the top tier of aviation.

I doubt NJC, FedEx, or UPS will ever be hurting, but only b/c they'll be drawing from other airlines, not b/c there's an abundance of pilots jumping into the career.

Furthermore, the number of people getting certificated on the commercial level decreases every year. A fair amount of those people don't even plan on flying professionally. Plus there is a lot of plain "I'm tired of it." I can't go to any aviation related event (airshows, safety seminars, etc) without running into someone not very well informed on the industry who went to Mesa or somewhere for a year then decided there was no money in it and dropped out of pro flying completely. It happens a lot.

[PaulR]

The average annual salary for a first officer in his fifth year in 2004 was $95,000, but that fell to $87,000 in 2004 and eroded to $83,000 in 2007, according to Aviation Information Resources Inc.

Originally Posted by E6BAV8R

I'm guessing that is at a Major?

Kit will always quote the high dollar majors because he is in the business of selling the dream job. Its not in his best interest to discourage potential pilots. Nobody wants to hear about pilots earning 18K they want to hear about 180K.

This is still a great career and brings with it countless benefits and of course lots of fun, but we need to fix some of those little problems like the 18K part.

Good Luck

[kellwolf]

I flew with a CA last week that is about an inch away from hanging it up. He's been flying for regionals for the past 8 years, but he's pretty much decided that if he doesn't get on with a major in the next year or so, he's done. If things turn worse at Pinnacle, he's tossed around the idea of getting out sooner.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

I flew with a CA last week that is about an inch away from hanging it up. He's been flying for regionals for the past 8 years, but he's pretty much decided that if he doesn't get on with a major in the next year or so, he's done. If things turn worse at Pinnacle, he's tossed around the idea of getting out sooner.

So long to him - that's another open spot.

[scramjet]

Originally Posted by PaulR

The average annual salary for a first officer in his fifth year in 2004 was $95,000, but that fell to $87,000 in 2004 and eroded to $83,000 in 2007, according to Aviation Information Resources Inc.



Kit will always quote the high dollar majors because he is in the business of selling the dream job. Its not in his best interest to discourage potential pilots. Nobody wants to hear about pilots earning 18K they want to hear about 180K.

This is still a great career and brings with it countless benefits and of course lots of fun, but we need to fix some of those little problems like the 18K part.

Good Luck

That's the way I feel, there's things that need fixing but you might as well try to take some enjoyment from it in the interim and help fix things when you can.

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

So long to him - that's another open spot.

DING-DING-DING!

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Those idiots that join the military for low pay, because they love it and believe in what they're doing . . .

Wow...ouch (as I try to get up from being kicked in the nuts). It's those idiots that keeps a draft at bay. I don't know too many people who join the military for the pay...

As for "believe in what we're doing" keep in mind we don't have a choice in what *any* administration's aspirations are.

Not really sure what that offense comment has to do with this thread anyway

[wheelsup]

He was being sarcastic, I'm pretty sure he was a marine.

[Fly4Pay]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

I flew with a CA last week that is about an inch away from hanging it up. He's been flying for regionals for the past 8 years, but he's pretty much decided that if he doesn't get on with a major in the next year or so, he's done. If things turn worse at Pinnacle, he's tossed around the idea of getting out sooner.

Annnnnnddd.... Cue BrandX!!!!!

[Flysher]

mtsu was in the military.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Those idiots that join the military for low pay, because they love it and believe in what they're doing . . .

And some join Al Qaeda, and I'm pretty sure they are not paid too much. . .

Martyrs come in all shapes and sizes.

Although I follow what your original intent of your comment. I just also find it important to mention that even some in our own military are willing to go and martyr themselves for a cause that is obviously void of any form of success.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by tonyw

I think we're talking about the same thing but going at it different ways. I work to live. I expect my paycheck to be large enough so that when I am not working I can live it up.

I understand what you are saying Tony. I come from a different direction. I live to fly and would have done it regardless of the living standard. Believe me, my wife will confirm this. As it turned out, it was a great living standard too. And I understand those that are frustrated at being stuck in "the minors." I can only say that I've opposed that way of doing things from day one.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

And some join Al Qaeda, and I'm pretty sure they are not paid too much. . .

Martyrs come in all shapes and sizes.

Although I follow what your original intent of your comment. I just also find it important to mention that even some in our own military are willing to go and martyr themselves for a cause that is obviously void of any form of success.

Man. Talk about "void of....".

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by Flysher

mtsu was in the military.

Well, what can I say? My bad.

[mtsu_av8er]

8 years worth, my man!

Pure sarcasm . . . no need to be offended!

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by flyover

I understand what you are saying Tony. I come from a different direction. I live to fly and would have done it regardless of the living standard. Believe me, my wife will confirm this. As it turned out, it was a great living standard too. And I understand those that are frustrated at being stuck in "the minors." I can only say that I've opposed that way of doing things from day one.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I really enjoy flying. Ain't nothing like shooting a simulated approach to mins, popping off the foggles, and seeing the runway right where it is supposed to be and then greasing the landing.

It's just that if this is to become my livelihood instead of just something I do for fun, I've got to have a paycheck big enough to be able to pay the bills!

[Chewie von Nubbins]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

8 years worth, my man!

Pure sarcasm . . . no need to be offended!

Dayum. I guess 8 years in the MC marching band really makes one quite bitter.

I started laughing when I saw your original post (because I know the angle you were throwing down), and knew that there would be some follow-up from someone.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Chewie von Nubbins

Dayum. I guess 8 years in the MC marching band really makes one quite bitter.

OUCH!!!! Hey, we threw our batons HARD!!!

[flyover]

Originally Posted by tonyw

It's just that if this is to become my livelihood instead of just something I do for fun, I've got to have a paycheck big enough to be able to pay the bills!

See the game of flying airplanes on a schedule is like crack for me. If they didn't pay me for it I'd have to snatch purses or stick up senior citizens to support my habit.