Single Engine Air Taxi!

PGA07 · June 14th, 2007, 08:19

I know that there is a company in the south east who has developed quite a niche in the air taxi business using Cirrus aircraft. I recently learned of a club/charter/management business near me that is in the process of begining an air taxi business with the Cirrus also.

The question I present is: once135 minimums have been obtained, would this be more bennificial (SP) than flying freight? I would assume that most of our goals in this field lead to a mult-engine career. That being said, would this type of single engine operation be of value to someone other than as a TT builder? Wouldn't we be more inclined to take a multi gig of the same sort?

I guess I just don't see the benifit of this, other than the TT. Personally, I think a freight gig with a multi would be better in the long run, for the multi PIC, no?

Murdoughnut · June 14th, 2007, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGA07

I know that there is a company in the south east who has developed quite a niche in the air taxi business using Cirrus aircraft. I recently learned of a club/charter/management business near me that is in the process of begining an air taxi business with the Cirrus also.

The question I present is: once135 minimums have been obtained, would this be more bennificial (SP) than flying freight? I would assume that most of our goals in this field lead to a mult-engine career. That being said, would this type of single engine operation be of value to someone other than as a TT builder? Wouldn't we be more inclined to take a multi gig of the same sort?

I guess I just don't see the benifit of this, other than the TT. Personally, I think a freight gig with a multi would be better in the long run, for the multi PIC, no?

I imagine the hours are probably better than 135 freight.

PGA07 · June 14th, 2007, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

I imagine the hours are probably better than 135 freight.

Quite possibly, but being a taxi service, I have vissions of a pager 24/7. Especially in a smaller sized business with only a handful of pilots.

Stone Cold · June 14th, 2007, 09:45

Actually, the company you are talking about is, from my understanding, hiring higher time people. It seems they have a decent schedule, basically doing shift work, I think, or 5 days a week and that's it, type of thing. It wouldn't be pager time, from what I understand.

As far as single engine, yes, it's worthless, for the most part, if you have no multi, and have career aspirations of the airlines, etc. If you want to have a good schedule, decent pay for the flying, it would be good. For those with airlines in the sights, no it would not be better than 135 ME freight. There are a lot of people that have a ton of TT, and no multi time, and it hurts them down the road.

meritflyer · June 15th, 2007, 12:36

If your talking about Point2Point, they went out of business recently.

Old Pete · June 15th, 2007, 16:34

Point2point was based in N.D. Since he mentioned the S.E. I assumed SATSair.

Mr.Maximus · June 15th, 2007, 23:35

SaTSAir sounds right. Think they are a M-F operation with two shifts. One 6a.m. to 2 p.m. and the other 2 p.m. to 10 p.m.

If your interested in flying any turbine type equipment, the single stuff doesn't do you any good. If you have the 135 mins - find a multi job. As far as the people that work there - I've heard it's usually older folks - or folks that like a "normal" type of work schedule and are not overly interested in flying bigger stuff and all the hassles that goes with it.

Max

jtrain609 · June 15th, 2007, 23:37

Freight would be a better route to go.

Stone Cold · June 16th, 2007, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pete

Point2point was based in N.D. Since he mentioned the S.E. I assumed SATSair.

yeah, I was referring to SATSair...

skydweller97 · June 16th, 2007, 16:11

Here's the skinny on SATSair. I've been working here about 10 months and it is a great company.

It's not Monday-Friday.

It's not, "shifts."

It's not, "pager 24-7."

We work 4 days on, 3 days off. Sometimes you're on the road for the four days straight, but usually home at least one or two nights. Pay averages out to 30K first year plus per diem, 36K second year and tops out at 45k currently. The company has the option to work pilots 5 days a week during their first two years if it gets real busy, but if so, fifth day is paid as overtime. I worked 5/2 my first 4 months when we were short on planes and pilots, but haven't since, except for one week I volunteered to get a few extra bucks. Lines are bid based on seniority and you know your schedule for the whole month ahead of time. Stay in nice hotels, treated very well by management and scheduling, mx top notch, wx decisions respected. Hired to the town you live in/want to work in.

Business is growing steadily and pax are thrilled with the service and telling their friends.

I think the experience you gain in this is about equivalent to single pilot freight in a Baron or Seneca. Different in some areas, but about equal overall. But for the most part this is not an entry level, or "stepping stone" job. Many of the pilots here are retired military/airline and average flight time is somewhere in the 4-5000 hour range. (I have a little less than 4000 TT so I'm a veritable, "green horn.") Pretty much everyone has prior experience in either airline, military, corporate or other 135 experience or some combination.

I would say flying the SR-22; a glass cockpit, EFIS airplane into all kinds of airports day and night in IFR conds single pilot with passengers sitting next to you and watching everything you do, dealing with the passengers directly, doing all your own flight planning with flexibility for inevitable changes and rearranges, is certainly valuable experience. The customer service aspect is huge in this environment and would certainly help prepare for a corporate position. On the other hand, insurance requirements can trump everything sometimes and x number of ME time is required for certain jobs. Almost all of us at SATS have ME time already and aren't here to "build hours." So ME freight is probably better for younger, upwardly mobile types and this is more of a retirement--easy on the family--good QOL--home-town type of job.

zman · June 22nd, 2007, 17:58

I am looking for a flying job and have approx. 4000 hrs. Sats air sounded like a good idea until I talked to a Satsair Pilot while hanging around PDK. He said that there are many longish duty days (12+) , and much hanging around . Are they financially stable? What does the future look like to you at Satsair? thanks

DMBinHBurg · June 22nd, 2007, 21:43

Skydweller,
What kind of SR22 are you using? The G1 or G2? Any GTS? Are they all fully loaded w/ XM, Cmax, etc??? Is SatsAir going to get any G3 or Turbos? Just curious. Thanks

skydweller97 · June 22nd, 2007, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by zman

I am looking for a flying job and have approx. 4000 hrs. Sats air sounded like a good idea until I talked to a Satsair Pilot while hanging around PDK. He said that there are many longish duty days (12+) , and much hanging around . Are they financially stable? What does the future look like to you at Satsair? thanks

Yes we have a fair amount of 12 hour days but it's almost always because of a 3-5 hour wait in there somewhere, and rarely because it's a six leg day with tight turn times. Average day is 3-5 legs and 10 hrs duty with 4-6 hours flight time. There are some days that end up being freebies at home on standby too, especially during the winter. (And this is in addition to the 2-3 hard days off each week.)

SATSair is experiencing strong growth and supposedly some big investors have been looking at the company and talking about coming on board. The passengers are thrilled and multiplying like rabbits as they tell their friends about the service.

skydweller97 · June 22nd, 2007, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMBinHBurg

Skydweller,
What kind of SR22 are you using? The G1 or G2? Any GTS? Are they all fully loaded w/ XM, Cmax, etc??? Is SatsAir going to get any G3 or Turbos? Just curious. Thanks

We have G2s. All but two have TKS and about half have air conditioning. All have WX and CMAX. All but the earliest 4 or 5 have XM radio.

Negative on the Turbos but I think we are trying to get the remaining 40 of our current 50 plane order converted to G3s for the extra payload. G2 with TKS and A/C suffers on the useful load. I don't know why they put bigger tanks in the G3. The current 81 Gals is 5 hours in the air if you lean to economy. We almost never carry full fuel - usually tabs or tabs + 10 per side.

DMBinHBurg · June 22nd, 2007, 22:33

Skydweller,
Thanks for the info. Do you get to "keep" your aircraft at your home airport? Would you get to trade up your G2 for a G3? Do you usually fly LOP (Economy) or ROP for go fast mode?

I own a 2004 SR20 w/ PFD and enjoy it a lot. I just fly for fun though. I hear nothing but good things about SATSair. Glad to hear it's doing well!

skydweller97 · June 22nd, 2007, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMBinHBurg

Skydweller,
Thanks for the info. Do you get to "keep" your aircraft at your home airport? Would you get to trade up your G2 for a G3? Do you usually fly LOP (Economy) or ROP for go fast mode?

I own a 2004 SR20 w/ PFD and enjoy it a lot. I just fly for fun though. I hear nothing but good things about SATSair. Glad to hear it's doing well!

About 1/3 of the pilots are at the home base -- GMU, Greenville, SC. All the planes rotate through through there for MX. The other 2/3 pilots are outbased and they take a plane home with them and then get rotated through GMU -- usually when they're already out on the road and in the area when their plane is due MX so they can swap for a fresh one. MX department is a Cirrus service center and does mx on privately owned Cirri as well.

Right now, pilot's discretion on leaning. Company recommendation is 65% and LOP with a tailwind and 75% and ROP going into headwind. I always run LOP 25-35 degrees in econ mode. You only lose about 3-5 kts and save about 4-5 gals per hour. The NMPG is better even when going into a headwind so the rational doesn't hold for these piston planes and at the altitudes we fly.

DMBinHBurg · June 22nd, 2007, 22:56

Skydweller,
Sounds like they have a good system on aircraft rotation.

I ALWAYS fly LOP also. You just can't beat the fuel savings for the small amount of speed loss. I normally get around 9.2gph at 143 TAS (if the plane is clean

). I was flying down to FL back in January and with a great tailwind was getting 23nmpg. It was GREAT! hahaha

DMBinHBurg · June 22nd, 2007, 22:57

Skydweller,
Just curious where are you based? I fly out of SHD in Virginia but use LYH Virginia Aviation for all my MX.

68navajo · June 23rd, 2007, 00:17

ZMAN. I work at that place and it must be a different company I work for than skydweller. Usually on a four day on sched. I leave early the first day and get back late the last day. Long days and low pay.More pilots are leaving than they are hiring. Single engine piston does no good for someone looking for a career in aviation. I don't think the company will be around that long. 68navajo

June 14th, 2007, 08:19	#1
PGA07 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Western Chi-Town Burb's Posts: 600	Single Engine Air Taxi! I know that there is a company in the south east who has developed quite a niche in the air taxi business using Cirrus aircraft. I recently learned of a club/charter/management business near me that is in the process of begining an air taxi business with the Cirrus also. The question I present is: once135 minimums have been obtained, would this be more bennificial (SP) than flying freight? I would assume that most of our goals in this field lead to a mult-engine career. That being said, would this type of single engine operation be of value to someone other than as a TT builder? Wouldn't we be more inclined to take a multi gig of the same sort? I guess I just don't see the benifit of this, other than the TT. Personally, I think a freight gig with a multi would be better in the long run, for the multi PIC, no?

June 14th, 2007, 09:45	#4
Stone Cold Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SE US Posts: 2,959	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Actually, the company you are talking about is, from my understanding, hiring higher time people. It seems they have a decent schedule, basically doing shift work, I think, or 5 days a week and that's it, type of thing. It wouldn't be pager time, from what I understand. As far as single engine, yes, it's worthless, for the most part, if you have no multi, and have career aspirations of the airlines, etc. If you want to have a good schedule, decent pay for the flying, it would be good. For those with airlines in the sights, no it would not be better than 135 ME freight. There are a lot of people that have a ton of TT, and no multi time, and it hurts them down the road.

June 15th, 2007, 12:36	#5
meritflyer Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Winchestertonfieldville Posts: 6,404	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! If your talking about Point2Point, they went out of business recently. __________________ The simplest answer tends to be correct.

June 15th, 2007, 16:34	#6
Old Pete Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 532	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Point2point was based in N.D. Since he mentioned the S.E. I assumed SATSair.

June 15th, 2007, 23:35	#7
Mr.Maximus Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: This One Posts: 289	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! SaTSAir sounds right. Think they are a M-F operation with two shifts. One 6a.m. to 2 p.m. and the other 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. If your interested in flying any turbine type equipment, the single stuff doesn't do you any good. If you have the 135 mins - find a multi job. As far as the people that work there - I've heard it's usually older folks - or folks that like a "normal" type of work schedule and are not overly interested in flying bigger stuff and all the hassles that goes with it. Max

June 15th, 2007, 23:37	#8
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,290	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Freight would be a better route to go. __________________

June 16th, 2007, 16:11	#10
skydweller97 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 27	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Here's the skinny on SATSair. I've been working here about 10 months and it is a great company. It's not Monday-Friday. It's not, "shifts." It's not, "pager 24-7." We work 4 days on, 3 days off. Sometimes you're on the road for the four days straight, but usually home at least one or two nights. Pay averages out to 30K first year plus per diem, 36K second year and tops out at 45k currently. The company has the option to work pilots 5 days a week during their first two years if it gets real busy, but if so, fifth day is paid as overtime. I worked 5/2 my first 4 months when we were short on planes and pilots, but haven't since, except for one week I volunteered to get a few extra bucks. Lines are bid based on seniority and you know your schedule for the whole month ahead of time. Stay in nice hotels, treated very well by management and scheduling, mx top notch, wx decisions respected. Hired to the town you live in/want to work in. Business is growing steadily and pax are thrilled with the service and telling their friends. I think the experience you gain in this is about equivalent to single pilot freight in a Baron or Seneca. Different in some areas, but about equal overall. But for the most part this is not an entry level, or "stepping stone" job. Many of the pilots here are retired military/airline and average flight time is somewhere in the 4-5000 hour range. (I have a little less than 4000 TT so I'm a veritable, "green horn.") Pretty much everyone has prior experience in either airline, military, corporate or other 135 experience or some combination. I would say flying the SR-22; a glass cockpit, EFIS airplane into all kinds of airports day and night in IFR conds single pilot with passengers sitting next to you and watching everything you do, dealing with the passengers directly, doing all your own flight planning with flexibility for inevitable changes and rearranges, is certainly valuable experience. The customer service aspect is huge in this environment and would certainly help prepare for a corporate position. On the other hand, insurance requirements can trump everything sometimes and x number of ME time is required for certain jobs. Almost all of us at SATS have ME time already and aren't here to "build hours." So ME freight is probably better for younger, upwardly mobile types and this is more of a retirement--easy on the family--good QOL--home-town type of job. Last edited by skydweller97; June 16th, 2007 at 19:44.

June 22nd, 2007, 17:58	#11
zman Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! I am looking for a flying job and have approx. 4000 hrs. Sats air sounded like a good idea until I talked to a Satsair Pilot while hanging around PDK. He said that there are many longish duty days (12+) , and much hanging around . Are they financially stable? What does the future look like to you at Satsair? thanks

June 22nd, 2007, 21:43	#12
DMBinHBurg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 80	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Skydweller, What kind of SR22 are you using? The G1 or G2? Any GTS? Are they all fully loaded w/ XM, Cmax, etc??? Is SatsAir going to get any G3 or Turbos? Just curious. Thanks

June 22nd, 2007, 22:33	#15
DMBinHBurg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 80	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Skydweller, Thanks for the info. Do you get to "keep" your aircraft at your home airport? Would you get to trade up your G2 for a G3? Do you usually fly LOP (Economy) or ROP for go fast mode? I own a 2004 SR20 w/ PFD and enjoy it a lot. I just fly for fun though. I hear nothing but good things about SATSair. Glad to hear it's doing well!

June 22nd, 2007, 22:56	#17
DMBinHBurg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 80	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Skydweller, Sounds like they have a good system on aircraft rotation. I ALWAYS fly LOP also. You just can't beat the fuel savings for the small amount of speed loss. I normally get around 9.2gph at 143 TAS (if the plane is clean ). I was flying down to FL back in January and with a great tailwind was getting 23nmpg. It was GREAT! hahaha

June 22nd, 2007, 22:57	#18
DMBinHBurg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 80	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! Skydweller, Just curious where are you based? I fly out of SHD in Virginia but use LYH Virginia Aviation for all my MX.

June 23rd, 2007, 00:17	#19
68navajo Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 22	Re: Single Engine Air Taxi! ZMAN. I work at that place and it must be a different company I work for than skydweller. Usually on a four day on sched. I leave early the first day and get back late the last day. Long days and low pay.More pilots are leaving than they are hiring. Single engine piston does no good for someone looking for a career in aviation. I don't think the company will be around that long. 68navajo

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