Advice please

[Pilotdreams83]

<Note; three similar threads merged into one. SteveC>

Hi all,

This is my first post so first I would like to tell you all hello.

My name is Jackson and my life long dream has been to be a commercial pilot. I have been in, on and around aviation since I was about 2, spent 6 years in the Civil Air Patrol, majored in Commercial Aviation at a community college, logged about 20 hours of flight time, and spent 6 years in the Navy as an Aviation Ornanceman. My time in the navy is now swiftly drawing to a close. I injured my back during a bomb loading excercise and I am no longer able to lift and load bombs (250lbs minimum aint light haha).

So here is my dilema: I am about to be a new father ( roughly Jan 20th 08), and I am getting out of the navy in about 4 months ( waiting on the paperwork from DC).

My wife is 100% supportive of my wishes to pursue a flying career, but she is worried about the financial side of things and the stability for our newborn.

I am a fully qualified Six Sigma Management Black Belt that could make a very comfortable amount of money right off the bat but I absolutly HATE Six Sigma ( for those of you who have seen the show Friends Chandlers job as comprehesive data analyst - well that is basically Six Sigma).

I have looked at I think all the flight schools I can find, and I don't honestly know which one to go to. I really like the looks of ATP but they aren't authorized for Veterans funding(which is about 26,000 that I wouldn't have to pay) I have heard both good and bad things about Ari Ben, Aviator Inc, and Laguna Air and others.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHICH WOULD BE BEST! I don't like the idea of getting a 60k loan but I have heard that ATP is the best and who doen'st want the best? I also liked the fact that they have a set price and alot of airline affiliations.
What is the best school - how can you tell which is the best for you?

Her is the biggest issue: should I jump straight into my aviation career, with me getting out of the Navy, having a baby, and moving back to the mainland(currently in Hawaii) OR should I go be a Six Sigma manager for a year possibly a year and a half and pay for my school in full and have savings left so that we aren't hurting really bad during flight school/time building/ first year as a FO.

I really don't know what to do.

To put in easy to understand terms:

I need help figuring out which school would be the best school to go to? Preferably one that utilizes VA benefits.

And I need advice on whether to jump in head first into school or get a job I HATE but will pay a enough to save substantially to cover future costs and payoff bills. Just to add this - I have a sizable chunk off debt left over from my ex-wife.....always fun...but I need to get rid of that to.

Also any wives out there that would have any advice/support for my wife please contact me....I would love to find some people that she could connect with.

Thanks for reading my novel - I know it was longwinded.

Sailor-pursuing his pilot dreams
Jackson

[Pilotdreams83]

My name is Jackson and my life long dream has been to be a commercial pilot. I have been in, on and around aviation since I was about 2, spent 6 years in the Civil Air Patrol, majored in Commercial Aviation at a community college, logged about 20 hours of flight time, and spent 6 years in the Navy as an Aviation Ornanceman. My time in the navy is now swiftly drawing to a close. I injured my back during a bomb loading excercise and I am no longer able to lift and load bombs (250lbs minimum aint light haha).

So here is my dilema: I am about to be a new father ( roughly Jan 20th 08), and I am getting out of the navy in about 4 months ( waiting on the paperwork from DC).

My wife is 100% supportive of my wishes to pursue a flying career, but she is worried about the financial side of things and the stability for our newborn.

I am a fully qualified Six Sigma Management Black Belt that could make a very comfortable amount of money right off the bat but I absolutly HATE Six Sigma ( for those of you who have seen the show Friends Chandlers job as comprehesive data analyst - well that is basically Six Sigma).

I have looked at I think all the flight schools I can find, and I don't honestly know which one to go to. I really like the looks of ATP but they aren't authorized for Veterans funding(which is about 26,000 that I wouldn't have to pay) I have heard both good and bad things about Ari Ben, Aviator Inc, and Laguna Air and others.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHICH WOULD BE BEST! I don't like the idea of getting a 60k loan but I have heard that ATP is the best and who doen'st want the best? I also liked the fact that they have a set price and alot of airline affiliations.
What is the best school - how can you tell which is the best for you?

Her is the biggest issue: should I jump straight into my aviation career, with me getting out of the Navy, having a baby, and moving back to the mainland(currently in Hawaii) OR should I go be a Six Sigma manager for a year possibly a year and a half and pay for my school in full and have savings left so that we aren't hurting really bad during flight school/time building/ first year as a FO.

I really don't know what to do.

To put in easy to understand terms:

I need help figuring out which school would be the best school to go to? Preferably one that utilizes VA benefits.

And I need advice on whether to jump in head first into school or get a job I HATE but will pay a enough to save substantially to cover future costs and payoff bills. Just to add this - I have a sizable chunk off debt left over from my ex-wife.....always fun...but I need to get rid of that to.

Also any wives out there that would have any advice/support for my wife please contact me....I would love to find some people that she could connect with.

Thanks for reading my novel - I know it was longwinded.

Sailor-pursuing his pilot dreams
Jackson

[Pilotdreams83]

My name is Jackson and my life long dream has been to be a commercial pilot. I have been in, on and around aviation since I was about 2, spent 6 years in the Civil Air Patrol, majored in Commercial Aviation at a community college, logged about 20 hours of flight time, and spent 6 years in the Navy as an Aviation Ornanceman. My time in the navy is now swiftly drawing to a close. I injured my back during a bomb loading excercise and I am no longer able to lift and load bombs (250lbs minimum aint light haha).

So here is my dilema: I am about to be a new father ( roughly Jan 20th 08), and I am getting out of the navy in about 4 months ( waiting on the paperwork from DC).

My wife is 100% supportive of my wishes to pursue a flying career, but she is worried about the financial side of things and the stability for our newborn.

I am a fully qualified Six Sigma Management Black Belt that could make a very comfortable amount of money right off the bat but I absolutly HATE Six Sigma ( for those of you who have seen the show Friends Chandlers job as comprehesive data analyst - well that is basically Six Sigma).

I have looked at I think all the flight schools I can find, and I don't honestly know which one to go to. I really like the looks of ATP but they aren't authorized for Veterans funding(which is about 26,000 that I wouldn't have to pay) I have heard both good and bad things about Ari Ben, Aviator Inc, and Laguna Air and others.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHICH WOULD BE BEST! I don't like the idea of getting a 60k loan but I have heard that ATP is the best and who doen'st want the best? I also liked the fact that they have a set price and alot of airline affiliations.
What is the best school - how can you tell which is the best for you?

Her is the biggest issue: should I jump straight into my aviation career, with me getting out of the Navy, having a baby, and moving back to the mainland(currently in Hawaii) OR should I go be a Six Sigma manager for a year possibly a year and a half and pay for my school in full and have savings left so that we aren't hurting really bad during flight school/time building/ first year as a FO.

I really don't know what to do.

To put in easy to understand terms:

I need help figuring out which school would be the best school to go to? Preferably one that utilizes VA benefits.

And I need advice on whether to jump in head first into school or get a job I HATE but will pay a enough to save substantially to cover future costs and payoff bills. Just to add this - I have a sizable chunk off debt left over from my ex-wife.....always fun...but I need to get rid of that to.

Also any wives out there that would have any advice/support for my wife please contact me....I would love to find some people that she could connect with.

Thanks for reading my novel - I know it was longwinded.

Sailor-pursuing his pilot dreams
Jackson

[kellwolf]

The less money you have to borrow, the better. By the time you get overhere, you'll probably have another option on the veterans benefits: Skymates. They should be getting VA approved any day now, and I highly recommend their program.

Before you go jumping in head first for an airline job, make sure you wouldn't hate that MORE than the Six Sigma deal.

[Pilotdreams83]

I have heard a great deal about Skymates but I was turned off by the lack of VA benefits......if that was available it would certainly help with things....as for hating flying professionally like I hate six sigma....I have thought alot about it and have asked everyone I could about what they didn't like scheduling, away from family, bad pay at first, industry instability....so far sounds like the navy minus the instability with the benefit that YOU ARE IN THE BLUE! it doesn't get better.... the worst day is a good day if you are flying. I look up and stare every time I hear a plane let alone see it..... I have literally gone to the airport at lunch just to watch the ramp....pretty sad but what can I say.

Thanks for your input

[DE727UPS]

You don't say how old you are, but if it's under 50, I'd say take the year and a half to get yourself established and save some money. In spite of the "seniority is everything" propaganda, you'll do fine if you wait.

Check this forum for USMC-sgt or subpilot. They are two I know of that have got where you want to be with a similar background.

If you have VA bene's, stay away from ATP. There are decent 141 programs where you can use your hard earned bene's.

And thanks for serving our great country.

[DE727UPS]

See my response at your other thread.

[Pilotdreams83]

Thankyou very much for your adivce....I really enjoyed reading your story....very informative.....great stuff....you should be proud.

[kellwolf]

Give Skymates a call and check out the thread over in the SKymates forum on here. The VA benefits are coming soon. They're in the last stages of the paperwork as far as I know.

[Pilotdreams83]

Thanks again for the advice...I am 24 btw...

It is a pleasure...no thanks needed...my time in the service has been some of the best in my life.

I apologize for the multiple post but I am not quite sure how the forum works yet....just wanted to get as much info as possible.

Thanks again

[Pilotdreams83]

Will do thanks for the headsup!

[DE727UPS]

No problem. I'm not a mod here anymore, so, the multiple posts aren't my problem. Just don't try that over at APC...hehe.

At 24, I gotta say take your time. You don't need to be in any rush at all. In fact, I wouldn't consider you a career changer at all. Set yourself up in a way you have as many options as possible and use those VA benes.

[intern_mike]

Check out FlightSafety. They're expensive as hell, but with that 141 military benefit it would be a great deal. And in my opinion they are the best.

[Kristie]

Also any wives out there that would have any advice/support for my wife please contact me....I would love to find some people that she could connect with.

have her come over to jetgirls.net we'd be glad to talk to her.

[anavalairman2]

Hi Pilotdreams83. I am 26, in the Navy and I am an AM with 11 months to go, currently serving on the USS Abraham Lincoln.

In order to use your VA benefits, you can go to Delta Connection Academy, Flight Safety Academy, Ari-Ben and more than likely some more schools. Delta Connection charges an outrageous amount even with the help of the VA, expect to use all of you GI Bill and then have to fork out around 60 grand out of pocket..not to mention their price is going to go up soon. FSA runs the same rate pretty much but a little bit less however did you know that the VA will not fund a private pilots' license? They find it "recreational" so you will have to fund that out of pocket as well. If you want the best of the best, go to ATP. I've made a conclusive decision on that school because it's a fixed price, you get good quality training and you get hired on with an airline alot sooner than what you would with the other academies. Did you know that you have to obligate your self to instruct for a certain amount of time with DCA and FSA? They bind you into a contract so that you have to reach a certain amount of time in order to begin your application process, even if you meet the required minimums in a short amount of time. With ATP, no contracts and you get the oportunity to get REDUCED hiring minimums is you complete the CRJ bridge course which runs at 2500 for ACPP grads vise if you were comming off the street you would pay 5995..that's a good deal.

In your case with a child on the way, 24...I would say to work another year or so, get out of your existing debt and then save a fat stack for your pilot training. You will be on your way that way shipmate.

[Pilotdreams83]

Thank you all for all of the advice. It has all been really helpful. Regarding anavalairman - I was on the lincoln for the tsunami cruise....it was the last cruise my f-18 squadron did before we decommed VFA-82 Marauders.....It is good to meet you. Thanks for all your advice. what all of you have said basically runs along with what I was thinking. I really like ATP as well but the VA bene's would be nice.....we will just have to see what happens in a years or so....and during that time I plan on getting my private and possibly my multi and instrument....depending on time...we will see. I am sure I will be asking you all again when it gets closer to time to go to school.

Thanks again

[Pilotdreams83]

Kristie,

My wife said she will check out the jetgirls site tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up and support.

[moxiepilot]

Good luck to you.

As you know since Jack Welsh's introduction of SS, many companies have adopted the practice - some with success some not. My recommendation is to go with that job while concurrently training on your ratings.

There is no rush to get it all done right now. You will have other important things going on

[tprops4me]

Wow! A Fellow AO. Try to avoid debt as much as you can on this. If you have to work the job you don't like to pay for this, then so be it. Alot of us are doing that. VA benefits are good, but watch out that the place you go to doesnt jack up the price so high that it would be cheaper to just do the training at an fbo.
IYAOYAS

[sdfcvoh]

Welcome to the forums from another vet, and career changer! You'll find several posts that are along these lines, but from your specific situation, you might want to look into flight safety academy. Another idea you also might want to pursue is working half time in your analyst job, and using the free time to train at a local FBO as often as possible.

But - if you are wanting to jump in headfirst - take a look around flight safety.

Best of luck to you! Flying is an amazing thing to be able to do.

[GalaxyIFE]

I am an Air Force dude with about 5 years 'til retirement. If you can make some "fat 'scrilla" as an analyst then you could do some flying on the side...there are a lot of FBOs that are VA approved. You could get up through your MEI for around 20K (give or take a couple grand). I had played with the idea of going to ATP after I retired, but figured I could save a mess load of money by getting all my ratings before retirement. Something to consider...if you did ATP, it's at least 50K. I am assuming (as an enlisted dude that had one of those wives that almost drove me to bankruptcy) that you may not have 50K available...and loans that are availale are expensive. I have been fortunate to be "free" of the now ex-wife for several years, so I am in a good financial position to do ATP without the loan or the FBO thing. Since I have the time before retirement, I can "milk it out" a little though. ATP seems to be a good deal though and if I was getting out within a year, there would be serious consideration. A great thing is this board...lots of opinions, histories, and just a "little" banter to keep it spicy!

[SteveC]

<Note, above this point three independent threads have been merged into one.>

[woodreau]

Have you checked out whether they have an MWR aero club at Hickam AFB or MCAS Kaneohe? If they do you can see if you can get your private pilot done before you leave the Navy - that way you're ready to start using your VA for the commercial after you leave - whenever you're ready to start your commercial training.

I did my private training at Kadena AB in Japan then did the rest of commercial tickets while I was still in the Navy at North Island and a civilian flying club in San Diego.

But take time for the newborn - it's time you won't ever have again.

One thing I have noticed working for a regional airline - I have been gone more from home working for an airline than I ever was gone from home with the Navy - even with the 6-8 month deployments and workups off SoCal. You only had to say goodbye once before every deployment - but with an airline you're saying goodbye every week.

Staying debt free as possible is best - I saved up a alot before leaving the Navy - and we've blown through most of the savings for the 2 years I've been working as an airline pilot.

[Pilotdreams83]

Originally Posted by tprops4me

Wow! A Fellow AO. Try to avoid debt as much as you can on this. If you have to work the job you don't like to pay for this, then so be it. Alot of us are doing that. VA benefits are good, but watch out that the place you go to doesnt jack up the price so high that it would be cheaper to just do the training at an fbo.
IYAOYAS

Great to meet you....I am quite surprised to meet an Ordie on here as well. I appreciate the advice - where were/are you stationed? IYAOYAS

[Pilotdreams83]

I want to say thankyou to all of you who have given me your advice....it must be pretty sound because no one has said - no no you have to go to school right now....if you don't the industry might slow down hiring and you may have to wait years for a job - like the schools do....but then again who wouldn't want to make 60k a pop you know. The wife has been reading over my shoulder and is a bit more at ease - if that is possible for a lady with a baby in the oven....I try to help ..... I have never even heard of an MWR aero club but I will definitly give it a look see that would be great.

"Have you checked out whether they have an MWR aero club at Hickam AFB or MCAS Kaneohe? If they do you can see if you can get your private pilot done before you leave the Navy - that way you're ready to start using your VA for the commercial after you leave - whenever you're ready to start your commercial training."

How does it work exactly woodreau?

Thank you all again for your help....

one last thing though -
Do accelerated schools give you that much of a step up or is the training at an FBO just as good?