Pinnacle???

[worm19]

-- is it true that pinnacle are down to just hiring people with a Multi and Commerical. The last i knew it was down to 500/50 and 400 with a bridge network but just bare mins??

[MSUDAWG]

I dont think so, where did you hear that? I think the only way to get hired with a wet comm is to come from an approved school or pay the exuberent (sp) amount of money for a 7 day jet course

[JEP]

Originally Posted by MSUDAWG

I dont think so, where did you hear that? I think the only way to get hired with a wet comm is to come from an approved school or pay the exuberent (sp) amount of money for a 7 day jet course

I am not advocating either way, but I would not say it is an "exuberent (sp) amount of money for a 7 day jet course". The ATP CRJ course is $5995, around here that will get you maybe 40 hours in a multi. If you are close to being hirable, I would venture to guess that from a purely economical standpoint that the 6k would be better spent on the CRJ course than trying to get 40 more hours of multi.

[MSUDAWG]

true, but in retrospect, that is almost 1000 buckaroos a day....Personally I think that is a lot to pay just to get a job quicker. I dont wanna start the PFT/PFJ debate, but there is a local guy where Im from who has the same course or one remarkably similar for a third of the price of ATP's. Im not bashing them or the course, bc I did think about going to do the course I just think it is a LOT of money....I guess im just a cheap ass

[JEP]

Originally Posted by MSUDAWG

true, but in retrospect, that is almost 1000 buckaroos a day....Personally I think that is a lot to pay just to get a job quicker. I dont wanna start the PFT/PFJ debate, but there is a local guy where Im from who has the same course or one remarkably similar for a third of the price of ATP's. Im not bashing them or the course, bc I did think about going to do the course I just think it is a LOT of money....I guess im just a cheap ass

Actually it is $856.43/day! Is it alot to pay? Sure, but if one is looking at getting just a little more multi time vs. possible crj course (which could get your foot in the door sooner) than the multi time I would say it is better spent in doing so. As far as the pft/pfj debate I don't see this as neither. Does this 'local' guy have a hiring/interview agreement with anyone? If not I would put less value on that. Would I consider it? Sure. But I am not in a position to be hired yet and don't have the cashola..

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by worm19

-- is it true that pinnacle are down to just hiring people with a Multi and Commerical. The last i knew it was down to 500/50 and 400 with a bridge network but just bare mins??

Their mins are 1000/100

[MSUDAWG]

Yeah he has an agreement with Pinnacle as soon as you get done with the course. The guy that owns the school is a FedEx pilot and since MOST of the mgmt at PCL is retired FedEx guys, he has a close relationship with them and they recognize his program as being pretty legit. Although he doesnt have the reputation ATP has since he is just getting his school rolling, his relationship with those guys holds quite a bit of water as well....

[FSIPILOT]

Originally Posted by MSUDAWG

or pay the exuberent (sp) amount of money for a 7 day jet course

Seven days!? Why does it take SO long to learn to fly a jet? ;-)

[Bog]

I'd advise taking the multi time to build just a smidgeon more EXPERIENCE with flying airplanes. You can learn jet systems in your newhire ground school.

Air Midwest had a newbie go through recently with a TEMPORARY COMMERCIAL. Just bear in mind that in today's hiring environment, where everyone is hiring, raise YOUR minimums and take the job at a GOOD company.

/rant

[higney85]

Currently PCL is hurting for pilots- there is no question about that. We are now offered referral bonuses to get our friends here, and the "preferred" mins are 1000/200 but realisticly about 500/100 will get you an interview if a current pilot sends your resume through, or 600/100 if you just send it in solo. The 250 hour wonder DOES exist, but they are very few and do come from places such as ATP and RAA. Pinnacle gets a bad rap for hiring low timers, and while the low timers work here- there are very, very few. In my class of 20+ we had (1) 250 hour guy. He came from ATP, and is still here. I have friends who are in training and I have asked all of them about the times- out of 5 different classes there are only a few 250 hour guys, a bit more of the 500 hour, and the vast majority consists of 1000ish hour CFI's and guys with previous 121 with a good bit of flight time. The problem at PNCL is the contract, no questions on that fact. The lines are really high time (I have 98 sched hours this month) and upgrades come quick, but you will "work hard for your money". The pilot group is great, it is all jet, and the contract is 2 years into negotiations and now mediations. There is no telling how long til the contract is done but I can guarantee this group will not take anything subpar, if we could strike right now we probrably would but there are still a few steps to take and the current folks on capitol hill won't release anyone into self help. Without ranting and praising for a while I will sum up with this- If you want to get hired quick, get a bunch of time, upgrade super quick, and can live off the current pay and don't mind MEM, DTW, or MSP (DL base not annouced yet), and want to fly with a great bunch of guys PCL would work for you. To explain how quick upgrades are going here is the current picture in my world. Started class Sept 06 with about 1000/250, finished IOE beginning of December with a sen # around 1200, held a line in March, at June bid My sen # was around 1050 (out of 1250ish) and the junior CA award for an August CA class was 1100.. Meaning some guys either in/just out of training are holding a CA spot. I am just shy of 1500 hours at this point and just need to wait til next july to turn 23 and go to upgrade. The CA time requirements are all that will hold up the typical person- need to be 23, and have either 3500TT, or (more realistically) 2500TT with 1500 at PCL (year and a half of flying) or 2000TT with 1000 at PCNL with a mentor program (this program is just getting started now). So upgrades are happening quick and attrition is high with CA's moving on to "the next step" and FO's leaving to other regionals and corporate for a host of reasons. Hope that helps.

[higney85]

Originally Posted by Bog

I'd advise taking the multi time to build just a smidgeon more EXPERIENCE with flying airplanes. You can learn jet systems in your newhire ground school.

Air Midwest had a newbie go through recently with a TEMPORARY COMMERCIAL. Just bear in mind that in today's hiring environment, where everyone is hiring, raise YOUR minimums and take the job at a GOOD company.

/rant

So with your /rant- are you advocating going to Mesa over PNCL? Not arguing, just curious... Cause you have that mesa stuff in your sig...

[mtsu_av8er]

My eyes are burning, Higney85!!!

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by higney85

So with your /rant- are you advocating going to Mesa over PNCL? Not arguing, just curious... Cause you have that mesa stuff in your sig...

I would advise you not to challenge him on that one . . . you might get owned!!!

[Bog]

Originally Posted by higney85

So with your /rant- are you advocating going to Mesa over PNCL? Not arguing, just curious... Cause you have that mesa stuff in your sig...

Not at all. The Mesa Hub is a web forum that I've run for over a year, after moderating the Mesa Lounge for 3. I have too many friends that still use it, so I don't pull the plug on it.

I would never advocate going to Mesa over anything, including jail. Hey ... at least in jail, they provide you with clean housing, 3 meals, a uniform, mental help, a gym, guaranteed play time, reading material, etc, etc. Mesa won't even give you that.

[RJones]

Pinnicle recommends going to Jet U!! I read it on their site. Who would pay $30000 extra just to have a better shot at a job.

[surreal1221]

Hiring and Accepting applications are two different things.

This can also be said for PSA.

[higney85]

Originally Posted by Bog

Not at all. The Mesa Hub is a web forum that I've run for over a year, after moderating the Mesa Lounge for 3. I have too many friends that still use it, so I don't pull the plug on it.

I would never advocate going to Mesa over anything, including jail. Hey ... at least in jail, they provide you with clean housing, 3 meals, a uniform, mental help, a gym, guaranteed play time, reading material, etc, etc. Mesa won't even give you that.

nevermind- I hope you didn't take it the wrong way, just curious.. Pinnacle may not be the best, but I have never heard a good thing on mesa- even from those who work/worked there.

[Bog]

Originally Posted by higney85

nevermind- I hope you didn't take it the wrong way, just curious.. Pinnacle may not be the best, but I have never heard a good thing on mesa- even from those who work/worked there.

No offense taken at all. I quit after 7 years at that place. I've been a free man for almost 6 months and it's great!

[zmiller4]

I dont wanna start the PFT/PFJ debate

I do!

Originally Posted by JEP

I would venture to guess that from a purely economical standpoint that the 6k would be better spent on the CRJ course than trying to get 40 more hours of multi.

Maybe from a purely, bare-bones economical standpoint it might be more efficient in that it gives you a shot at one or two particular airlines sooner. In the grand scheme of things there's absolutely no reason not to spend the money and get 40+ hours of real-world experience that you can actually put on your resume instead of spending it on a shortened, cruddy Wal-Mart version of what you'll get in detail (and the way the airline wants it taught) once you get hired.

I'm pretty sure that 40hrs of multi time building either in IMC or under the hood on an IFR flight plan to new/different places is going to be much, much more beneficial to the average low time pilot than an "RJ standards course".

[higney85]

I for one don't think pilots should pay for any more training above a commercial multi with only 2 exceptions- A CFI ticket, or pleasure (such as a seaplane rating). You get a commercial rating to FLY FOR HIRE! I can only speak so much, personally I think I made somewhat of a mistake for my multi time. There was a guy who had a C310 and offered to let a few of us fly for pretty much gas. Now this was great and I flew that plane about 200 hours, but I spent alot of money that would have been much more useful in the stock market. But, the $10K or so I shelled out did expose me to alot of pleasurable flights to the beach for seafood, flights to see the lady, and experiences such as thunderstorms, icing, an exhaust pipe that broke shooting flames at 3am, a 2 down gear indication- things that I can say I really learned from. So does $6K sound like a mistake- NO, but spend it flying for fun and learn along the way. Any airline, fractional, charter, corporate, or freight job you go to will have to train you to fly the jet or turboprop no matter what. I don't regret what I did, but at the time 200 hours of multi made you competitive. Get some PIC time, IMC time, and FUN! You shouldn't even need to pay for it! You paid for your tickets so use them! If you have just a comm/multi look to the FBO's- get a job pumping gas and be a nice guy/gal, people will always want company and before you know it you are flying twins, singles, and possibly jets and tprops. If you have a CFI then use it! Plenty of people love to knock out a BFR or an IPC and you can even make money at it- whoda thought? You need to do what you can to get your time and if you need to buy your 40 hours of multi quick to get a job- do it, but if you have school to finish or have another flying job (single) you can fly multi's every once in a while with people who are looking for some company. I got about 50 hours of my multi by pumping gas, and I could have had more if I went out of my way for flights but i decided to just fly the 310. This is one of the things that I look back on and would do differently but your experience may vary. Hope that wasn't too much of a ramble but maybe you will not make the same mistake I did- although it was fun! Either way- the industry now will only sham you to PFJ, even gulfstream is taking guys in without the PFJ program- not because they are making too much money, its because the 250 hour guy now has options, and can do it with the certificates he/she paid alot of money, time, and sweat equity for.

[kellwolf]

Gotta go with Zmiller, too. Why pay for something you're gonna get for free? Take the money, build experience and open up your options more. Sure, I coulda done MAPD and gotten on with Mesa, but that would have pretty much hitched me to them. Same thing with JetU and Pinnacle. I chose instead to spend my money getting my CFIs and taking that route. If I had it do over again, I wouldn't change it.

Yeah, we're hurting. We're hurting BADLY. I'm in the top 1/3rd of the FOs in MEM, and I'm starting to get called on every day off by crew scheduling for JMs. I had to burn my extension refusal for June during my first trip of the month! Granted, since I'm already scheduled for 98 hours, they can't do a whole lot to me. Upgrade in DTW was awarded on this latest bid to guys that aren't even out of training yet for FOs, and even then there were slots that went unfilled.

Ken, we seriously need to hang out. I've probably passed you in the airport ten times and not even known it.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by Bog

I would never advocate going to Mesa over anything, including jail. Hey ... at least in jail, they provide you with clean housing, 3 meals, a uniform, mental help, a gym, guaranteed play time, reading material, etc, etc. Mesa won't even give you that.

Clean housing.....apparently you havent spent a night in jail..

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by blee256

Clean housing.....apparently you havent spent a night in jail..

Sounds like it's story time with Uncle Brian.....

[higney85]

Kell- i imagine we have walked by each other on more than one occasion. You obviously know who I am as far as names but let me know the next time you are working- i have a bunch of 4 days with "airport appreciation" sits this month.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by higney85

Kell- i imagine we have walked by each other on more than one occasion. You obviously know who I am as far as names but let me know the next time you are working- i have a bunch of 4 days with "airport appreciation" sits this month.

You already have a line?