Pinnacle???

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Oh man, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that at 250 hours you were hot ####.

I don't mean to discount your experience, because it's good you've seen that stuff, but seriously man, I didn't realize you were such a great pilot.

Umm, actualy you are being the hot shot pilot telling other people they wouldn't know what to do if someone had a heart attack, because I can think "in theory" but in real life, I'd freeze. Right, thanks!

P.S. I have more than 250 hrs.


Your negative attitude rubbed off on me. For that, I must apologize.

[jtrain609]

What can I say, you'd most likely be saying the same crap I do if you'd seen what I'd seen.

[Champcar]

Nothing like a little drama.

[Farva]

kellwolf for the statement you made on the other page, Mega Ultra word(couldnt think of a better one) and Jtrain rock on man totally with ya on your point.

[Farva]

Well its more of a social clash because you got the new class of pilots who are going the fast track route and the old school pilots who busted there balls in either military, instructing, and or flying charter. So with that social clash is bound to happen.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

You never really thought that my lack of very much public comment on this program has anything to do with not wanting to lose my job, have you?

I'd love to set you straight, but Don already has for the most part and if you'd like to know my thoughts on the program shoot me a PM.

But now you could express your thoughts, as you are leaving, or have left said company. Remember, you too found a way as a low time pilot to get into a 135 operation. What makes your way any better then the SIC program? Would you recommend other low time pilots to build the hours the way you did?

Also, Don, thanks for the info.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

You know, it's one of those situations where you really have to say, "Kid, until you've been there and seen the ####, you don't have a clue about what you're gonna do."

It's not that the 500 additional hours of traffic watch helps you, it's the two engine failures, 50 near mid air's and constant dealings with ATC that helps you.

Aviation is not as academic as engineering. You can't study it in the classroom and expect to go out and apply it. You've gotta get down in the #### and get slapped in the face a few times by it.

And how do you know this? Ever take an Engineering course, complete a program? Do you think you have the right to comment on something that you have NOT done? Think that electronics works like it says on paper? Try working in 13,800 volts and see if it responses EXACTLY like what the calculations say. Watch as it gets a fellow employee costing them there life (and it was only 480V).

Sorry man, you jump on others (like in this thread) for things they haven't done. You should have to stand up to the same. I like you JH, but you can't have it both ways.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

But now you could express your thoughts, as you are leaving, or have left said company. Remember, you too found a way as a low time pilot to get into a 135 operation. What makes your way any better then the SIC program? Would you recommend other low time pilots to build the hours the way you did?

Because, if I understand JHs work at Amflight, he was a training captain. So he continued instructing . . . but for a 135 company.

[Tuckster]

You guys need to chill .... I'm a big time forum reader (not just this one) and I'm starting to see a pattern. I've been weighing my options carefully and still have not made a decision on how to proceed mainly because my situation (age) is a little different from most.
What I have picked up is there are several posters that really resent the "new" wave of training. I got my PPL in '72 and my IFR in '82 so I'm not a hot shot youngster that thinks he knows it all. To say the training you get at JU or CAE or ATP or wherever is not a good way to proceed strikes me as a hard ** for today's training environment. I understand fully that "real world experience" is 2nd to none however it is silly to think flying around in a 172 building hours (or light twin which has become almost unaffordable) is going to make you a better CRJ pilot. The only way to really become an "experienced" FO is to become a FO and be willing to continue to learn. A school that helps you learn the characteristics of the plane you will be flying seems to me to be a good way to better prepare yourself.
Getting into a pis**** contest only retracts from the value of this forum. Everyone here has good points but ........ it doesn't necessarily mean your way is the best way or the only way. Times have changed. I'm probably the oldest poster on here so I can honestly say that. I've learned alot on this forum and have already formed a few opinions of my own (based on what I have read). I know GA is PFJ and is not very well respected (although not a scab). Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it but by no means do I expect everybody to agree.

[GlenWimpy]

I'm just glad there is someone on here older then ME!

I remember when a DC3 was then number one plane in the sky and Amelia Earhart was buzzing the sky!

[jtrain609]

Disreguard, I'll take it to PM's.

[kellwolf]

"Nearest suitable airport." Hmmm, how do you determine that? It's not in a book or a chart, it's from EXPERIENCE. Do you take the CRJ into the nearest airport that only has a VOR approach to mins, do you go a little bit further to the place with an ILS but no tower making it a little tougher to make sure help is on the way or do you go to the bigger airport that's 30 minutes flight time away and hope the guy in the back makes it? JetU will NOT teach you things like this. The only thing that teaches that is experience, which is what the guys coming from JetU seriously lack.

Look, if someone wants to waste thousands of dollars on a program so you'll feel good going into training, there's nothing I can do to stop you. It's your money, waste it all you want. Personally, I'd rather have someone with more real world and less "Sega" experience in the seat next to me in a year or so.

I will say this. If I'm DHing in the back of one of our airplanes, and the CA shuffles off this mortal coil, I don't have a lot of confidence in JetU FOs up front. Now, if that happens and an engine flames out, I have no doubt they'd be able to handle the engine flame out.....

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Look, if someone wants to waste thousands of dollars on a program so you'll feel good going into training, there's nothing I can do to stop you. It's your money, waste it all you want. Personally, I'd rather have someone with more real world and less "Sega" experience in the seat next to me in a year or so.

If you could have:

1. Given me CRJ Systems training

2. Given me flows, profiles, memory items, and limitations for the CRJ

3. Given me FMS training

4. Given me FTD time

5. Given me Level C/D CRJ sim time

and

6. An interview with Pinnacle with my low time status (but more than 250 hrs)


... then I would have paid you $25k.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I will say this. If I'm DHing in the back of one of our airplanes, and the CA shuffles off this mortal coil, I don't have a lot of confidence in JetU FOs up front. Now, if that happens and an engine flames out, I have no doubt they'd be able to handle the engine flame out.....

What's shuffle off a mortal coil?

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

What's shuffle off a mortal coil?

Die!

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

If you could have:

1. Given me CRJ Systems training

2. Given me flows, profiles, memory items, and limitations for the CRJ

3. Given me FMS training

4. Given me FTD time

5. Given me Level C/D CRJ sim time

and

6. An interview with Pinnacle with my low time status (but more than 250 hrs)


... then I would have paid you $25k.

FTD/FMS/SIM training is like one millions time different than day in day out line flying.

Yeah most likely you will have no problems getting through training. Hope you have a understanding captains though!

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

"Nearest suitable airport." Hmmm, how do you determine that? It's not in a book or a chart, it's from EXPERIENCE. Do you take the CRJ into the nearest airport that only has a VOR approach to mins, do you go a little bit further to the place with an ILS but no tower making it a little tougher to make sure help is on the way or do you go to the bigger airport that's 30 minutes flight time away and hope the guy in the back makes it?

This really isn't something experience is going to fix. Some people are born with good decision making, good common sense and leadership skills. And these people, make great Captains. But the worl is full of morons out there who have next to no common sense, that reguardless of how much experience they get, will not make the right choices.

In an emergency with the aircraft, I'd take an ILS over any NPA any day, especially with an engine failure. Nothing like having to do step down fixes with a dead engine. In that case, my nearest suitable field would be one with an operating ILS, within range given the circumstances of the emergency, with sufficient runway length and if at all possible, crash fire rescue - just in case.

Carry on.

[Fly4Pay]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

What's shuffle off a mortal coil?

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This pilot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!

'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!

'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!

'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

THIS IS AN EX-PILOT!!

(Monty Python "Parrot" sketch)

[Bog]

The current Mesa newbie FO is needing 100 hours of IOE in order to be signed off. Yes, 100. And by the time they're signed off, that's 25% of their flight experience. Give me Greyhound for $1000, please! No experience = you do not belong in the right seat of an airliner. Airline management does not care: we are only "meat in the seat" to them. They do not care about safety; that's just something nice that the lawyers tell them to preach in order to divert the lawsuits.

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

The furthest I'm looking 'down the road' is still Pinnacle Airlines, so I can return to and stay in Michigan. I plan on staying at Pinnacle for a while.

I believe you mentioned that you're 57. That gives you 2-7 years of being abused at a regional before you have to retire. If I may ask ... why bother? Just to say "I did it?" Just curious.

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Yes, I'm angry at Mesa. . .JO specifically.

If we, as a profession, are suppose to increase work rules, pay, and a number of QOL issues. . .it is going to be damn near impossible when establishments such as GIA exists, and a continued number of people say "Ah it's okay. . .since I'm doing it.

1) Always be sure to name JO, not Mesa. Granted, there are plenty of jellyfish flying at MAG, but OJ is indeed to blame for 99% of the ##### sandwich eating at MAG. That scumbag will get his one day. Oh indeed he will, that worthless waste of oxygen.
2) Great point!
A few years ago, one of my cousins in Boston wanted to get a job as an electrician. The electrical workers union has things soooooo tight in that area that he could not work until he was in the union, and that took months just to get in. How's their pay? Great! Working conditions? Great! Will airline pilots ever pull that off? Nope ... too many are in it for ME and not WE.

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Ask any UPS pilot about Supply Chain Solutions (sort of UPS) using China Air to fly Asia to Nashville...

Is that UPS freight they bring in? That's 5 runs each week. I'd rather see a Browntail than Air China. That really sucks.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I believe you mentioned that you're 57. That gives you 2-7 years of being abused at a regional before you have to retire. If I may ask ... why bother? Just to say "I did it?" Just curious.

Nah, you got me confused with the other guy!

I'm in my lower 20s, college grad last year. Still got 40+ yrs if Age 60 rule goes up to 65.


Bog, from your time at Mesa, you knew low time MAPD pilots. Were they taking 100 hrs to get signed off on IOE? Or is this recent?

[Gonzo]

I haven't read most of the thread, but I have two questions for you CC.

1. Do you feel you are taking a shortcut?
2. Do you feel like you earned the right to be a FO.

[DE727UPS]

"Is that UPS freight they bring in?"

It's a grey issue, it's Supply Chain Solutions, which is a subsidary of UPS. I'm not really sure exactly, but the issue had caused a lot of heartburn until our current contract, where, I think we gave it away. Maybe we got something better in exchange, so I won't knock it. But it bothers me when Cherokee spouts off that nobody cares if you went to Gojet. They would if you put it into terms they understand.

Now, Cherokee will say that doesn't matter as you got the job, so what the heck. I'm just saying it's not honorable and does nothing to improve the lot of the profession.

[DE727UPS]

I'll answer number 2 for Cherokee...

He'll say, "if you pass the training, you earned the right....period"

I just wish the bar was higher than that as we all know that training and real world are two different things. Real world is what you don't get from the JetU method.

[Tuckster]

I'm the "old man" that wants to be abused for the next few years. Actually, I know it won't be all fun & games but I love flying (since 1972)and after 30 years at career # 1, I'm very excited about career # 2. It may not work out but if it does, I have 2, probably 7 years 121 and then can continue charter etc. I will be doing this for the love of flying. I realize there will be trying times but my approach will cause me a little less stress as I will be looking forward to going to work !!! Wish me luck.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Tuckster

Wish me luck.

All of us at JC (ok almost everyone ) wish you the best luck in getting into the industry! You have to make the decission yourself and what is best for you, we only ask that you think of the profession and raising the bar as you do it.

There is other ways to prepare then spend the money and attend this RJ courses. Search or ask more questions.