Hold in Position - Delay for Wake Turbulence

[JEP]

Can you guess the departing a/c MSP?

757 - Nope
767 - Nope
747 - Nope
A330 - Nope


MD-80.....Huh?


Didn't realize an MD80 was a heavy aircraft? Does it have more to do with the GW of plane departing behind the 'heavy'?

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by JEP

Didn't realize an MD80 was a heavy aircraft?

Wake delays can be given for any plane departing behind a larger plane. It is not reserved for "heavy" aircraft.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

Wake delays can be given for any plane departing behind a larger plane. It is not reserved for "heavy" aircraft.

That's what I have always thought. What caught my attention was when the plane in position queried tower and they replied back with it's an MD80-Heavy A/C.

I believe the plane holding was a Falcon, so that would explain it.

[USMC-SGT]

I have only been given the delay for wake at larger airports, mostly class C or above and the select few at class D ie. Globals and GIV+

I do get a caution wake turbulence from pretty much every single airplane bigger than a PC-12 to include jetstreams, Citation I, Encores, Falcon 20's etc.

I cant say Ive really had my boat rocked by a CJ1 yet...but at least ive been warned

[Stone Cold]

Ahh, I got stuck in Cedar Rapids one night in the Caravan...departing the next day, they gave a 172 a caution wake turbulence for me...not sure if he was joking or if it was a solo stud, but I laughed!!! I think it's one of those "discretionary" warnings if there's a bigger airplane nearby. I still receive them in the 60, for Falcons, etc. Go figure.

[I_Money]

Flying into LAX in a 172, they cautioned a AA 767 of our wake turbulance - I think it might be habit.

[Cav]

I hear GA airplanes at smaller airports waive the wake turbulence delays all the time for any number of large jets. It always strikes me as a bit stupid. What's the hurry? I know when I pull out on the runway behind a 75 or even a 73 I'll take all the time they'll give me and more if I desire it behind heavy stuff.

[ElyJs]

in a 172 its easy to waive it. I plan on being off the runway in 1/4 the length that a heavy jet needs. Then side step upwind a little. I don't think I have ever waited.

-Jason

[Cav]

Originally Posted by ElyJs

in a 172 its easy to waive it. I plan on being off the runway in 1/4 the length that a heavy jet needs. Then side step upwind a little. I don't think I have ever waited.

-Jason

Fair enough but I like to play it conservative. It's one less question that I'll have to answer for the FAA should anything ever go wrong. Like I said what's the hurry?

[SpiraMirabilis]

Delays are Dollars. I take off right behind 737s all the time, lift off before and go a little to the right of left depending on the wind direction. I'm more concerned about taking off after one has landed to be honest.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by I_Money

Flying into LAX in a 172, they cautioned a AA 767 of our wake turbulance - I think it might be habit.

More likely a joke, ATC often says things like that to get a chuckle or lighten things up!

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by Cav

I hear GA airplanes at smaller airports waive the wake turbulence delays all the time for any number of large jets. It always strikes me as a bit stupid. What's the hurry? I know when I pull out on the runway behind a 75 or even a 73 I'll take all the time they'll give me and more if I desire it behind heavy stuff.

I get it every morning for a -8 in the Van. Ultra Conservative controllers here. If the vis goes below 10 they get huffy if you don't do the ILS.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Cav

Like I said what's the hurry?

A schedule, and somebody paying big money for you to be on time!

[Nick]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

A schedule, and somebody paying big money for you to be on time!

And 30 planes in line for takeoff!


I saw a 737 taxi onto 22R at EWR starting backwards to use every last inch of it, then line up the right way, and when tower said cleared for takeoff he came on and said "Nope, we need 20 more seconds for separation." Tower said okay sir takeoff clearance cancelled, you just let me know when you're ready to go. I suspect the tower knows what they're doing as far as timing wake separation but maybe not. It's only their job.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Nick

And 30 planes in line for takeoff!


I saw a 737 taxi onto 22R at EWR starting backwards to use every last inch of it, then line up the right way, and when tower said cleared for takeoff he came on and said "Nope, we need 20 more seconds for separation." Tower said okay sir takeoff clearance cancelled, you just let me know when you're ready to go. I suspect the tower knows what they're doing as far as timing wake separation but maybe not. It's only their job.

Yup, it's also the PIC's job to make sure his plane doesn't get flipped upside down because a controller screwed up. Ever been upside down because a controller put you a little too close before? Not fun.

[eagledriver101]

Originally Posted by Cav

Fair enough but I like to play it conservative. It's one less question that I'll have to answer for the FAA should anything ever go wrong. Like I said what's the hurry?

I agree with you!!

, “Never be in a hurry, for if you are, you may not have tomorrow to fly” Whats, the hurry? At least with that attitude, you know you can fly tomorrow…"

[typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by JEP

That's what I have always thought. What caught my attention was when the plane in position queried tower and they replied back with it's an MD80-Heavy A/C.

I believe the plane holding was a Falcon, so that would explain it.

Was the Falcon departing from an intersection?


TP

[Kingairer]

Do you want prist in your fuel today/

[JEP]

Originally Posted by typhoonpilot

Was the Falcon departing from an intersection?


TP

I don't believe so. Most of the planes using the intersection holds at MSP are the Saabs from Mesaba or Bemidiji Airlines has some Queen Air's or something like that. Signature is located near the departure end of the 30's and most often the use the full rw.

Most of the biz-jets I have seen depart there get up and out pretty fast. Generally faster than the airliners.....

They made them wait 3 mins before departure.......

[seagull]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Yup, it's also the PIC's job to make sure his plane doesn't get flipped upside down because a controller screwed up. Ever been upside down because a controller put you a little too close before? Not fun.

Have you?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Yup, it's also the PIC's job to make sure his plane doesn't get flipped upside down because a controller screwed up. Ever been upside down because a controller put you a little too close before? Not fun.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you -- but I thought it was quite silly to see this 737-900 pilot telling Newark tower that they needed 20 more seconds behind the 757-200. Newark probably does the 737 behind 757 sequence probably 100 times a day! They weren't going to get flipped upside down.

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by Nick

Newark probably does the 737 behind 757 sequence probably 100 times a day! They weren't going to get flipped upside down.

Wouldn't it still bounce you around pretty good though... Maybe waiting another 20 seconds will give them a smooth ride as opposed bouncing the cattle around int back.

I got bounched around pretty good one time by a Mig's wake. That was kinda fun for me. My student was a bit uneasy but it was neat to get passed in the downwind by the Mig.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Nick

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you -- but I thought it was quite silly to see this 737-900 pilot telling Newark tower that they needed 20 more seconds behind the 757-200. Newark probably does the 737 behind 757 sequence probably 100 times a day! They weren't going to get flipped upside down.

Don't eff with 75s.

[Cessnaflyer]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Don't eff with 75s.

Yeah I believe those had worse wake then many other larger jets.

[Bog]

The DoJet is pretty small, but if we depart from an aircraft that's primarily GA ... the next guy out is almost always told "caution wake turbulence from the departing jet." ATC has to play CYA, too.