ALPA Backs Age 65

[flyover]

Translation:

We lost on this issue. In this case the right thing is going to be done despite all the membership polling and we can't stop it, so:

We are going to pretend like we now support it and stay "fully engaged" thereby stonewalling this as long as we can.

Your leadership.

And BTW, I've been opposed to mandatory age 60 retirement since I was in my early 20s and knew about the issue. Right is right, and this is right.

[av8sean]

Many 60+ year olds will not be able to pass their medical anyway. By that age, chances are alot of these guys who've been living relatively sedentary lives flying planes all day and night will encounter cancer, heart/blood pressure, vision, hearing, etc problems that will disqualify them from being commercial airline pilots. The guys that can still pass, should probably be allowed to continue.

[ryanmickG]

Originally Posted by iwareboy

Many 60+ year olds will not be able to pass their medical anyway. By that age, chances are alot of these guys who've been living relatively sedentary lives flying planes all day and night will encounter cancer, heart/blood pressure, vision, hearing, etc problems that will disqualify them from being commercial airline pilots. The guys that can still pass, should probably be allowed to continue.

We can only hope so!
And I hope they keep that left seat warm for me!





I'm not a 121 guy but if someone wants to AND able to work past 60...whats the big deal?

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

My old man will be 53 in October, so if I decide to pursue a flying career my goal is to make it to CAL to be his FO on his retirement flight. It would have been close with it being 60. He wants it to go to 65 based on retirement benefits. When the pension was frozen he got basically nothing from it. He now has 8 years to build up a 401K type account to retire from. The extra 5 years will make a world of difference when it comes to retirement savings.

This site seems to be populated by a lot of young guys that are looking to move on soon. There is a whole nother group of pilots that were close to retiring that lost a LOT of pension money when their plans were frozen. Its not hard to build up a Defined Contribution plan over a career, but to have a million dollar pension yanked away 8 years from retiring, hurts a LOT in the pocket.

MSUDAWG, It must hurt a lot to lose a brother to an airline crash.

What's a whole nother group? Wow, dat's som bad engrish dere.

There's another group of pilots............


Oh, and while I'm at it.........weather is not the same as whether.

weather =

weath·er n
1. the state of the atmosphere with regard to temperature, cloudiness, rainfall, wind, and other meteorological conditions
2. adverse weather such as a storm, or the effects of this

adj
1. used in or relating to weather forecasting
2. toward the wind

v
1. vt to come safely through a crisis or difficult time
2. vi to endure the damaging effects of the weather
3. vti to expose something to the weather, or be exposed to it
4. vti to change color or become worn because of prolonged exposure to the weather, or cause such a change
5. vt to sail on the windward side of something
6. vt to give a slope to something such as a roof to keep off rain

Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

whether =

wheth·er conj
1. used to indicate alternatives in an indirect question or a clause following a verb that expresses or implies doubt or the possibility of choice
2. used to introduce an indirect question
3. used to introduce doubt regarding two equal possibilities

Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.


/JC grammar goon intervention



Seriously, and on topic, I do agree the extra years might help those that had their pensions yanked away from them......unfortunately, there's a good chance it'll hurt those who are trying to move up in their career as well. I highly doubt the 60/65 debate is going to make all parties happy.

[Tram]

Originally Posted by Cruise

/JC grammer goon intervention

Wow..

You went to the trouble to call him out on his engrish and misspelled grammAr..

Atta'boy..

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by Tram

Wow..

You went to the trouble to call him out on his engrish and misspelled grammAr..

Atta'boy..

LOL....Pwnd

Nice one!

[Tram]

That's what I'm here for..

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by ORDinary

I agree. Lots of pilots retire before 60 now, where does it say you'll have to keep working past 60?

It all depends on your contract language. Mine defines normal retirement as Age 60 or 30 years service. If you retire early (any time before age 60 or the magic 30) you lose 7% of your pension for EVERY YEAR you retire early.

That's a huge hit.

As long as that language remains in my contract, I'll be vacating the seat at 60. If it changes, I'll be forced to fly to 65 to avoid a 35%+ pension pay cut.

[BobDDuck]

At least you still HAVE a pension to drop 7% for every year early. For a lot of guys that extra 5 years will allow them to dump into their 401Ks.

I have two problems with raising the age. First, they knew it was 60 when they signed up. That is/was part of the deal. Always has been. Now, I understand that they didn't expect to get hosed on their retirements, but still in all...

The second problem I have is from a safety point of view. Why are they requiring that the other pilot be less then 60? Obviously, being over 60 means you are more likely to keel over dead in the cockpit. I agree, a lot of guys won't pass the medical anyways, but what's to say they can't just slide over to the right seat and get by on a second class? I guess these are things ALPA can work on now that they are back on the winning team.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by ryanmickG

I'm not a 121 guy but if someone wants to AND able to work past 60...whats the big deal?

If they can pass the medical, I don't see a problem. Let them fly!

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

I have two problems with raising the age. First, they knew it was 60 when they signed up. That is/was part of the deal. Always has been. Now, I understand that they didn't expect to get hosed on their retirements, but still in all...

True, but when they also signed up they had a pension most likely.

My biggest thing is that at age 60 they are forced to retire, but cannot get to benefits (i.e. social insercurity) at that age. Without the pensions of the past, how are they to make it? Food stamps??

I hope to retire early myself!

[aussieflyer]

"The ALPA Executive Board today voted by an overwhelming 80 percent margin to end the union’s longstanding support for the FAA Age 60 mandatory retirement age for airline pilots. In the face of concerted efforts to change the rule in Congress and the FAA, the ALPA Executive Board directed that union resources be committed to protecting pilot interests by exerting ALPA's influence in any rule change. “The Executive Board spoke clearly this afternoon,” said ALPA's president, Capt. John Prater. “ALPA pilots will be fully engaged in shaping any rule change. Any legislative or regulatory change needs to address ALPA’s priorities in the areas of safety, medical standards, benefit issues, no retroactive application of change, liability protection, and appropriate rule implementation.”

Discuss

[SteveC]

[aussieflyer]

Sorry Steve, I didnt spot the original thread

[SteveC]

no un problema

[Foxcow]

I'm glad my 2% is going to something. Excuse me, 1.9% Thanks a lot ALPA.

[MSUDAWG]

Not to stir up the pot or anything, but I dont understand everyone's problem with a guy who has been at the airline a while and wants to fly till 65 or NEEDS to. How about that guy that has a 15-20 year career but has had 5 kids and just got the last one out of college. Why not give him a few extra years to actually work for himself and make enough money back to live comfortably for the rest of his retirement. I was the last child out of 3 to graduate college and I know that is an absolute blessing to my parents to have me off the payroll. My mom doesnt work and my dad has been paying tuitions for about 10 years on the 3 of us kids. All that EXTRA income went to pay for our educations and I am extremely fortunate for that. Yeah we had some nice vacations and I have had a very blessed childhood, but I would like my parents to be able to enjoy their retirement just as I enjoyed my childhood DEBTFREE. Now I know some people will say well dont send your kids to priv high schools, take out student loans for college, well I am glad my parents did what they did for us. I went to a college prep school and am very glad I did so. My parents said if there was a way that they were going to pay for all of our college so that we would graduate with no debt. He sacrificed his financial stability for us and for our lifestyle and education. So when the time comes that im at that major airline and want to upgrade, ill sit for a little longer while that guy gains back the financial peace to keep him afloat for the rest of his retirement. Bc I know when the time comes and its crunch time for me, knowing I have a few years to make a little more money to coushin (sp?) my retirement so i wont have to worry, will be just what I do. So everyone getting mad about it, lay off a little because most of these guys wont stay the whole 5 extra years, just a little longer to make some money for themselves instead of having all the debts to pay for a kid like me....

[Velocipede]

What most of the rabid pro-60 cabal forgets is that THEY'RE getting the option to fly until 65 as well. They're generally too fixated on "it'll take me 5 more years to upgrade!" to look at the big picture. They make the invalid assumption that just because the option exists to fly to age 65 that everyone will do it.

And that's just not true. For one thing, there will be a huge increase in Medical retirements in the 60-65 group over and above the 2.5/1 there is now.

Not everyone wants to fly until the regulatory limit. But, everyone should have the option simply because, as a member of ICAO, that option is available to foreign pilots in U.S. airspace. To continue to discriminate against U.S. pilots simply based on age is just wrong, ESPECIALLY when foreigners can ply their trade on our airways unrestriced.

[Tram]

Another thing is everyone is freaking out like things are going to slow down tomorrow..

It isn't going to be a July 1 you retire at 60.. July 2 you retire at 65 and everything comes to a halt type thing..

It seems like most of the guys throwing the biggest fit over this are all up in arms over the "5 years of stagnation" it's going to create..

This is a figment of these peoples imagination.. Will it slow down? I'm sure some of it will, will it come to a screetching, whiplash inducing slow down? Give me a break..

If you kids would spend half of the energy spent on whining and complaining about this issue and put it into investing your dollars, the last 5 years won't matter anyway..

Life goes on fella's.. Life goes on...

[Bog]

I used to be all for the Age 60 forced retirements. About 3 years ago, I changed my mind.

I'm currently flying with a guy who's 64 and retired UAL. The man is a wealth of knowledge and experience, and a good stick. I cannot see a single reason as to why he's not still sitting in the left seat of the 777, other than a random rule. Sure, he'd love to be making now what he made then (if for no other reason than to replace the lost pension), but he actually does miss the flying.

Personally, I hope to be able to retire before 65. But ... it's nice to know that if I do go back to 121, I'll be able to keep on trucking that long.