SkyWest being sued...?

[Doug Taylor]

That sounded a little stern on my part, my bad! But there's a press release which pretty much lays it out.

I really don't have a dog in the hunt, but I've been through organization drives at another carrier. It's actually pretty fun! Just wait until the company turns the non-pilots against the pilots and starts to blame them for everything from weather problems to the declining populations of the Florida Manatee!

[Soul Brotha']

It's cool man. I'm trying to get more informed with the pilot group overall. I've just read Flying the Line Vol I&II recently and how management views pilots is amazing.

[staplegun]

Originally Posted by Minnesota_Flyer

An employer cannot impose greater restrictions on union solicitations than it imposes on solicitations for any other organization. The issue here is that Skywest apparently has allowed one association great freedom of access to Skywest employees, but is attempting to deny the same access to the organizing committee. That is illegal.

And anyone who gets pissed off just because the organizing committee is trying to provide information needs a serious attitude adjustment. The employer is not your friend. The information the employer provides to you is highly biased and likely false. You should welcome some information from the other side to balance the information you are receiving.

Of course, if you prefer to be ignorant, I guess you have that right.

X 100...



Pay attention, folks. This stuff is not that hard to figure out...

Take a good, long look at the second paragraph above.

The company is not just standing back and saying, "have at it, boys; we'll let the pilots decide for themselves!" They are actively interfering with the organizing comittee, in ways both obvious and subtle.

The question you have to ask yourself is, "self, why is the company trying so hard to keep ALPA off the property?"


Kevin

[aloft]

Originally Posted by Soul Brotha'

It's cool man. I'm trying to get more informed with the pilot group overall. I've just read Flying the Line Vol I&II recently and how management views pilots is amazing.

GOOD ON YA! Knowledge is power, and that's all the organizing committee is trying to do, impart a little knowledge. In particular, being able to educate newhires--most of whom are new to the world of big business--is hugely important, and just by reading those two books, you're way ahead of the game.

[TonyWilliams]

Originally Posted by skydog

Which takes us back to the question of why does ALPA want to represent Skywest pilots? It should be the other way around

I agree 100%.

There was a post on the SAPA site that basically said, "join ALPA now by your decision, or have it jammed down your throat if/when ASA merges with SKW."

Very pushy for something I should want (by ALPA's arguement). Hell, I'm all for information, have a vote, whatever. Forcing your way into my "house" is another matter.

Constant and ongoing fights (which I think a successful ALPA campaign will generate) will really drag down morale. I guess (should they "succeed") we'll be just like every other airline.

[TonyWilliams]

Originally Posted by staplegun

The question you have to ask yourself is, "self, why is the company trying so hard to keep ALPA off the property?"
Kevin

Perhaps the company, and so far, the majority of pilots, don't think it's in their best interest?

If the company is breaking laws, I'm sure that'll be "fixed". There's no doubt in my mind that EVERY single pilot at SkyWest is aware of ALPA's efforts. So, I don't think there's a lot to be gained, other than ALPA OC to "make it hurt".

Kinda reminds me of a plumber story. My house is leaking water, so I call my plumber. He's kind of a lame ass plumber, but mine nonetheless.

Then, a big, expensive, high profile plumber bangs on my door and demands that I listen to his "information" about why he's the best plumber. I alread saw his ads on the internet, in the yellow pages, on the billboard, etc. I elected not to use the higher priced help on several occassions in the past few years.

But, he insists, not only to "inform" me, but to demand entry to my house to inform me. When I don't capitulate, he sues me.

Oh, ya, I really want to use THAT plumber......

[Doug Taylor]

Remember, that's for the individual pilots to decide, not the company unilaterally saying "Well, we're going to interject ourselves and abrogate labor law because WE don't think it's in our employees best interests".

If the pilots don't think it's in their best interests, they won't send their cards in. It's pretty simple. That's the way the law works.

No interest cards, no vote, no union. Solved.

But there's a LEGAL process that must be followed. The pilots "vote" by sending in enough interest cards to push for a vote. If they don't, ALPA goes away, simple!

Even if having a real union at Skywest would be the worst thing since "The Apprentice", Skywest needs to abide by labor law and respect the decision of the majority

The pilots may choose to (a) let the union drive naturally fizzle out or (b) vote to be represented by ALPA.

They need to respect the law just like you and I do. They're not above it.

I've been preaching for over a decade about reading "Flying the Line" to give a look at the labor versus airline relationship, few people actually do.

ALPA's not leading the union drive, individual Skywest pilots are. That's a bitter, but necessary pill to swallow.

[TheWife]

It sounds to me like the things they are asking for, are things that would cost SKW money. Access to class rooms, their own bulletin board, etc. Why should SKW have to provide these things for them?

[staplegun]

Originally Posted by TheWife

It sounds to me like the things they are asking for, are things that would cost SKW money. Access to class rooms, their own bulletin board, etc. Why should SKW have to provide these things for them?

All ALPA wants is equal access. All costs are borne by the union; it literally, monetarily, costs the company nothing.


Kevin

[staplegun]

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

Perhaps the company, and so far, the majority of pilots, don't think it's in their best interest?

We know the company doesn't think it's in their best interest, that's the nature of the beast.

How will the "majority of pilots" know if they are denied equal access to the info?

If the company is breaking laws, I'm sure that'll be "fixed".

I'm interested to know how you think it would be fixed if ALPA wasn't complaining about it?

There's no doubt in my mind that EVERY single pilot at SkyWest is aware of ALPA's efforts.

It's amazing how individuals react in a group when you control the "message!" Again, it's that equal access thing...

So, I don't think there's a lot to be gained, other than ALPA OC to "make it hurt".

And, of course, helping the company obey the law!

Kinda reminds me of a plumber story. My house is leaking water, so I call my plumber. He's kind of a lame ass plumber, but mine nonetheless.

Then, a big, expensive, high profile plumber bangs on my door and demands that I listen to his "information" about why he's the best plumber. I alread saw his ads on the internet, in the yellow pages, on the billboard, etc. I elected not to use the higher priced help on several occassions in the past few years.

But, he insists, not only to "inform" me, but to demand entry to my house to inform me. When I don't capitulate, he sues me.

Oh, ya, I really want to use THAT plumber......

Except, it's really not your house we're talking about, is it? It's a place where a large group of people work together. A more proper analogy would be:

My workplace is leaking water. We have our own in-house plumber, so we call him to fix the leak. "He's kind of a lame ass plumber, but mine nonetheless." But he just shrugs his shoulders and says, "I have to check with the boss..." So, nothing much really gets done to help.

Several of my co-workers know of another plumber who they say can help. I'd like to hear about him and what he can do, so I ask for more information. The boss tells us, "He's, a big, expensive, high profile plumber banging on my door and demanding that I listen to his "information" about why he's the best plumber. I alread saw his ads on the internet, in the yellow pages, on the billboard, etc. I elected not to use the higher priced help on several occasions in the past few years. Here, put on these hip-waders, the water's not really that bad..."




Kevin

[Seggy]

When there was an organizing drive at Chicago Express the management there gave the organizing committee the seniority list, invited them to talk to the new hires, and pretty much gave anything the OC asked for in their drive.

Makes you go hmmm...

[mrivc211]

Fellow SkyWest Pilots,



Today, May 22, 2007, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee filed suit against SkyWest Airlines, Inc. to compel the carrier to obey the principles of the Railway Labor Act with respect to employee free choice and union solicitation.



Under the rules governing union organizing, SkyWest pilots are entitled to distribute and receive information from ALPA and its supporters on exactly the same terms and conditions that they have received information from management and SAPA. To that end, the Organizing Committee, in a letter to Brad Holt in March, requested what it is entitled to under federal law: that it be given the same privileges and opportunities granted to SAPA. The company refused to grant these requests, prompting the Organizing Committee to take this latest measure.



In conjunction with the filing of the litigation, the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee asked the Court to move quickly to prevent SkyWest from interfering with pilots’ right to organize. On the same day the lawsuit was filed, the Court issued a Temporary Restraining Order, requiring SkyWest immediately to cease and desist from preventing members of the Organizing Committee and its supporters from wearing ALPA insignia on lanyards or pins and distributing ALPA materials in non-work areas such as crew lounges and bulletin boards. The Temporary Restraining Order also requires SkyWest immediately to provide the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee with access to the same channels of internal communication to the pilot group that are now available to SAPA.



For your reference we have attached a letter, mailed to SkyWest pilots today, which outlines the rationale for filing this lawsuit. We have also attached the judge’s order, and posted all of the key filings in the case on the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee webpage – SkyWestALPA.



With this Temporary Restraining Order, the Organizing Committee and its supporters are free to exercise their federal rights to discuss and to learn more about ALPA and the benefits of union representation. We look forward to talking with you soon.



In solidarity,



The SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee

1-888-SKY-ALPA

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Minnesota_Flyer

An employer cannot impose greater restrictions on union solicitations than it imposes on solicitations for any other organization. The issue here is that Skywest apparently has allowed one association great freedom of access to Skywest employees, but is attempting to deny the same access to the organizing committee. That is illegal.

And anyone who gets pissed off just because the organizing committee is trying to provide information needs a serious attitude adjustment. The employer is not your friend. The information the employer provides to you is highly biased and likely false. You should welcome some information from the other side to balance the information you are receiving.

Of course, if you prefer to be ignorant, I guess you have that right.

I agree with you 100%....but the only thing that concerns me about this legal maneuvering is the fact that it will serve to piss off management more than it will help get the word out. There isn't a pilot on the seniority list at Skywest that doesn't know about the drive to unionize. I've seen cards, magazines, pamphlets, etc. etc. in crew rooms, on airplanes, in cockpits, on my bag in the crew lounge, etc. etc. The word it getting out whether the boys in SGU want it to or not.

Now that the organizing commitee has shown their might and willingness to have an adversarial relationship with the company, the company will now have more reason to just say "**** them, let's hold up contract negotiations, let's not follow the rules and let them grieve it....by the time their system figures it out, we'll be richer anyway".....it's been done at many other carriers, and it's still going on at some. Management at skywest may not be our friend, but they're still pretty consistent with treating people fairly responsibly and respectfully. Now that the OC has blown their load early, I'm not so sure that the relationship between the pilots and management will continue the way it is if the union is voted in.......

[aloft]

Originally Posted by TheWife

It sounds to me like the things they are asking for, are things that would cost SKW money. Access to class rooms, their own bulletin board, etc. Why should SKW have to provide these things for them?

They're only asking for the same things SkyWest's management has already given to SAPA--the management-approved "pilot association". Federal law prohibits management from favoring one group over another in this fashion, along with some of the other things they've been doing, like harrassing organizing committee members, requiring them to remove their ALPA ID lanyards, etc.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by launchpad

I agree with you 100%....but the only thing that concerns me about this legal maneuvering is the fact that it will serve to piss off management more than it will help get the word out. There isn't a pilot on the seniority list at Skywest that doesn't know about the drive to unionize. I've seen cards, magazines, pamphlets, etc. etc. in crew rooms, on airplanes, in cockpits, on my bag in the crew lounge, etc. etc. The word it getting out whether the boys in SGU want it to or not.

Now that the organizing commitee has shown their might and willingness to have an adversarial relationship with the company, the company will now have more reason to just say "F*** them, let's hold up contract negotiations, let's not follow the rules and let them grieve it....by the time their system figures it out, we'll be richer anyway".....it's been done at many other carriers, and it's still going on at some. Management at skywest may not be our friend, but they're still pretty consistent with treating people fairly responsibly and respectfully. Now that the OC has blown their load early, I'm not so sure that the relationship between the pilots and management will continue the way it is if the union is voted in.......

Wow, some of you SKYW guys are being bent over by managment and like Oliver are saying "please sir, can I have some more."

Seriously, with all the loot the company has made of the backs of their pilots, and other employees don't you consider the paltry overide for the 900's and *I think* 2% raise rather insulting? And lets not even start talking about how badly, the Bro pilots got screwed in the last deal.

If the company wants to stall things along, doesn't that say something more about the company?

This isn't an attack against you launchpad, but seriously the company isn't going to willing let a union on property and have employees fairly represented and requesting a fair contract & wages.

Unfortunately, the company isn't playing fairly hense the reason for the lawsuit. So why then should the OC or ALPA still being playing with kids gloves?

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Wow, some of you SKYW guys are being bent over by managment and like Oliver are saying "please sir, can I have some more."

Seriously, with all the loot the company has made of the backs of their pilots, and other employees don't you consider the paltry overide for the 900's and *I think* 2% raise rather insulting? And lets not even start talking about how badly, the Bro pilots got screwed in the last deal.

If the company wants to stall things along, doesn't that say something more about the company?

This isn't an attack against you launchpad, but seriously the company isn't going to willing let a union on property and have employees fairly represented and requesting a fair contract & wages.

Unfortunately, the company isn't playing fairly hense the reason for the lawsuit. So why then should the OC or ALPA still being playing with kids gloves?

I agree with you, and I'm not one to believe that the boys in SGU are playing fairly, but it's all a game......

I definitely don't agree with management not following the law...that's just plain wrong. However, I think that a little tact and more strategic planning should have gone into a move like this so early in the game. Things were already being done with or without the company's knowledge/permission.....I say let it be and play cool until the union gets voted in...then bring out the war chest, because that's when we'll need it the most....doing things like this now will only serve to hasten the bitter relationship.....

[TonyWilliams]

Just read the restraining order. While it appears pretty straight forward, why couldn't SkyWest just order SAPA out of our company email (SAPA does have it's own website, also), thereby preventing ALPA access?

Obviously, the cat might be out of the bag on that ploy, and I don't play a labor relations lawyer on the internet......

[aloft]

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

Just read the restraining order. While it appears pretty straight forward, why couldn't SkyWest just order SAPA out of our company email (SAPA does have it's own website, also), thereby preventing ALPA access?

Because they've allowed SAPA access in the past.

[mrivc211]

Originally Posted by launchpad

I agree with you 100%....but the only thing that concerns me about this legal maneuvering is the fact that it will serve to piss off management more than it will help get the word out. There isn't a pilot on the seniority list at Skywest that doesn't know about the drive to unionize. I've seen cards, magazines, pamphlets, etc. etc. in crew rooms, on airplanes, in cockpits, on my bag in the crew lounge, etc. etc. The word it getting out whether the boys in SGU want it to or not.

Now that the organizing commitee has shown their might and willingness to have an adversarial relationship with the company, the company will now have more reason to just say "F*** them, let's hold up contract negotiations, let's not follow the rules and let them grieve it....by the time their system figures it out, we'll be richer anyway".....it's been done at many other carriers, and it's still going on at some. Management at skywest may not be our friend, but they're still pretty consistent with treating people fairly responsibly and respectfully. Now that the OC has blown their load early, I'm not so sure that the relationship between the pilots and management will continue the way it is if the union is voted in.......

Piss off mgmt? LOL. Please. Our decision to do this did not piss them off any more or any less. We as a pilot group will be respected whether they like it or not. From the get go, they have been anti union. Any company would be. Please don't pretend as if mgmt would be smiling had we not done this.

When will this pilot group grow some balls.

[mrivc211]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Wow, some of you SKYW guys are being bent over by managment and like Oliver are saying "please sir, can I have some more."

Seriously, with all the loot the company has made of the backs of their pilots, and other employees don't you consider the paltry overide for the 900's and *I think* 2% raise rather insulting? And lets not even start talking about how badly, the Bro pilots got screwed in the last deal.

If the company wants to stall things along, doesn't that say something more about the company?

This isn't an attack against you launchpad, but seriously the company isn't going to willing let a union on property and have employees fairly represented and requesting a fair contract & wages.

Unfortunately, the company isn't playing fairly hense the reason for the lawsuit. So why then should the OC or ALPA still being playing with kids gloves?

Not to mention NO raise for the brasilia pilots. (the hardest working if you ask me!)

[mrivc211]

Originally Posted by launchpad

I agree with you, and I'm not one to believe that the boys in SGU are playing fairly, but it's all a game......

I definitely don't agree with management not following the law...that's just plain wrong. However, I think that a little tact and more strategic planning should have gone into a move like this so early in the game. Things were already being done with or without the company's knowledge/permission.....I say let it be and play cool until the union gets voted in...then bring out the war chest, because that's when we'll need it the most....doing things like this now will only serve to hasten the bitter relationship.....

I respect your opinion since you are on our seniority list. If you would like it to be heard and support the drive, I welcome you to join the conference calls. Come to informational meetings in all the cities across the US. Your help would be greatly appreciated and welcomed!

[aloft]

Originally Posted by mrivc211

When will this pilot group grow some balls.

Some of their actions suggest management is asking themselves the same question.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

Just read the restraining order. While it appears pretty straight forward, why couldn't SkyWest just order SAPA out of our company email (SAPA does have it's own website, also), thereby preventing ALPA access?

Obviously, the cat might be out of the bag on that ploy, and I don't play a labor relations lawyer on the internet......

Not only is the cat out of the bag, but the horse has left the barn, Elvis has left the building, and you can't unring a bell. In short, Skywest has made its bed and now must lie in it.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by launchpad

I agree with you 100%....but the only thing that concerns me about this legal maneuvering is the fact that it will serve to piss off management more than it will help get the word out. There isn't a pilot on the seniority list at Skywest that doesn't know about the drive to unionize. I've seen cards, magazines, pamphlets, etc. etc. in crew rooms, on airplanes, in cockpits, on my bag in the crew lounge, etc. etc. The word it getting out whether the boys in SGU want it to or not.

Now that the organizing commitee has shown their might and willingness to have an adversarial relationship with the company, the company will now have more reason to just say "F*** them, let's hold up contract negotiations, let's not follow the rules and let them grieve it....by the time their system figures it out, we'll be richer anyway".....it's been done at many other carriers, and it's still going on at some. Management at skywest may not be our friend, but they're still pretty consistent with treating people fairly responsibly and respectfully. Now that the OC has blown their load early, I'm not so sure that the relationship between the pilots and management will continue the way it is if the union is voted in.......

Being "aware" of the union drive is pretty meaningless when the pilots are getting a steady drumbeat of anti-union information from the employer while at the same time the union organizers (who are Skywest pilots) are muzzled and harassed.

[skydog]

Originally Posted by mrivc211

Under the rules governing union organizing, SkyWest pilots are entitled to distribute and receive information from ALPA and its supporters on exactly the same terms and conditions that they have received information from management and SAPA. To that end, the Organizing Committee, in a letter to Brad Holt in March, requested what it is entitled to under federal law: that it be given the same privileges and opportunities granted to SAPA. The company refused to grant these requests, prompting the Organizing Committee to take this latest measure.

Here's a thought. If the union is only allowed to distribute info in the exact same manner as management, and management decided to not distribute any info to their pilots in any form, does that mean ALPA would have to do likewise?