U.S. airlines less popular than the IRS - survey

[bike21]

Pinchy!!!

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

OK, I won't call it whining anymore until I fly for an airline. Then, you guys are gonna get it.

Of course, then it'll be "You haven't flown for an airline AS LONG as I have . . . ". I know how that works . . . lol.

My point is it's pretty easy to sarcastically shift the blame from the passenger when you haven't spent an 8 hour day listening to passengers complain b/c they have to pay $50 for a bag that weighs more than I do. They expect to bring whatever they want, get treated like royalty AND pay about $90 to get to South America. At some point you have to say "Look, don't you think maybe your expectations are a little too high?" Doug's post also points out stuff that I've had passengers assume I can magically control on the flight deck. Sorry we had to divert to DAY on the way to PIT. The FAA forgot to put out the NOTAM that the Blue Angels were practicing and shut down the airport, so we didn't have enough fuel to hold. No, I can't make them open the airport and no we can't take off "just in case." I do my best to edcuate people on the whys and hows, but sometimes passengers can get a little irrational, and it becomes very difficult. It's something you really have to experience to understand.

[HRDiva]

I agree about managing expectations. The problem arises when you present yourself as a full service airline, and are not, anywhere near in comparison to comparably priced alternatives. I can fly over to Europe on a foreign carrier with much better service than a US carrier for the same or lesser price! But, often, I am not booking for price, rather for schedule and fair price. That's what we really care about--getting there when I need to be there and fair price, not the lowest price.

The problem is, that many of the elites have jumped to NetJets and the like.

Elites are jumping like crazy now as we realize that the airlines don't care about those of us that provided 80% of the revenue. We were the ones financing the remaining giveway seats. It's no longer true because we won't put up with crappy service or no service! I find it incredible that better service is offered on a comparable flight on SWA than a noted legacy.

My company is also looking into a fractional deal now.

Originally Posted by tonyw

The alleged rush to corporate aircraft would be the last of my concerns if I were in charge of an airline.

Not too many people can cough up a thousand bucks a flight hour. That's three to four times what Joe Twelvepack pays for an entire transcon.

No, my concern would be managing expectations. I'd make sure my customers understood, if you want first class treatment, you need to pay for it. If you want the lowest fare possible, then we're going to give you a can of soda and a middle seat in the back of the plane.

The choice is yours.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by HRDiva

I can fly over to Europe on a foreign carrier with much better service than a US carrier for the same or lesser price!

Amazing what governement subsidies can do for that.....

That's one of the problems I have with the whole Open Skies agreement. Some of the foreign carriers are government owned, giving them a HUGE advantage over our publicly/privately owned airlines here.

[HRDiva]

The problem is that the discrepancy is SO great that subsidies don't come into play. When the legacy wants $2800 for the same seat BA wants for $900 with full service, I have no choice!

[SkyCougar]

Originally Posted by HRDiva

The problem is that the discrepancy is SO great that subsidies don't come into play. When the legacy wants $2800 for the same seat BA wants for $900 with full service, I have no choice!

Good luck with BA! I've had nothing but negative experiences on them every time I've flown them. I'd much rather fly SFO/LHR on United or Virgin Atlantic Maybe it was bad luck or coincidence, but everytime I have flown them, I've encountered rude, snotty flight attendants. There were broken seats all over the aircraft and I had to sit in one of them all the way to London. Nothing like everytime you move in your seat, the seat back slaps you in the back of the head! I've heard the same from clients.

I don't know what US city you're flying from or where exactly you're going, but if it's London, you should be able to get there on ANY U.S. Legacy from any US city for less than $2800, or you need a new travel agent!

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

And if you don't have ACARS, you're generally "on time". A little known fact that I learned at my last airline.

That truly makes me angry too. I work for a regional airline, that flies for a major airline, who recently awarded some of it's routes to another regional. I work at one of the stations that this other regional is now flying into. It is one thing after another with this airline, they are late 10-20min everyday, litarally, every flight, they have maintainance issues constantly, yet everytime you "FLIFO" the flight, it is on-time. In fact, just yesterday one of the captains said they were on at 5P, in at 5:05P, which couldn't possibly be true, being as though we have to record the time when they call in on the ops frequency, and he didn't call in-range until 5:04P, and was still 15 mins out.

I directly seen this major airline lose customers due to the operation of this regional. Which leads me to another point.

Speaking of quality, vs. price. The majors needs to start looking at regionals who have quality service, and not the lowest bid .... your typical passengers doesn't know what ASA, Pinnacle, ExpressJet, etc., are. All they see is NorthWest, Delta, etc., on the side of the airplane. If they receive bad service on a regional, they also won't fly the major - because they think the regional is the major, just a smaller airplane. I wonder how much of this dissatisfaction from customers can directly be related to the regional, vs. the major side.

[SkyCougar]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Speaking of quality, vs. price. The majors needs to start looking at regionals who have quality service, and not the lowest bid .... your typical passengers doesn't know what ASA, Pinnacle, ExpressJet, etc., are. All they see is NorthWest, Delta, etc., on the side of the airplane. If they receive bad service on a regional, they also won't fly the major - because they think the regional is the major, just a smaller airplane. I wonder how much of this dissatisfaction from customers can directly be related to the regional, vs. the major side.

Exactly! Almost ALL of my clients have no clue about the regionals. If they're on Skywest, they think it's one of United's smaller planes. The regionals have a MAJOR effect on what the passengers think of the legacy's

[kellwolf]

Funny you should mention that.....

I got a sneak peek at our Delta ASA. If we don't perform to certain specs, we're done, which is why we're staffing that side of the flying 5:! instead of the 3:1 we have for the NWA flying currently. Cancelled flights due to short staffing on the Delta side would lead to us losing the contract. NWA, on the other hand, has no provision in the ASA for that. It's a straight up 10 year contract.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

That truly makes me angry too. I work for a regional airline, that flies for a major airline, who recently awarded some of it's routes to another regional. I work at one of the stations that this other regional is now flying into. It is one thing after another with this airline, they are late 10-20min everyday, litarally, every flight, they have maintainance issues constantly, yet everytime you "FLIFO" the flight, it is on-time. In fact, just yesterday one of the captains said they were on at 5P, in at 5:05P, which couldn't possibly be true, being as though we have to record the time when they call in on the ops frequency, and he didn't call in-range until 5:04P, and was still 15 mins out.

I directly seen this major airline lose customers due to the operation of this regional. Which leads me to another point.

Speaking of quality, vs. price. The majors needs to start looking at regionals who have quality service, and not the lowest bid .... your typical passengers doesn't know what ASA, Pinnacle, ExpressJet, etc., are. All they see is NorthWest, Delta, etc., on the side of the airplane. If they receive bad service on a regional, they also won't fly the major - because they think the regional is the major, just a smaller airplane. I wonder how much of this dissatisfaction from customers can directly be related to the regional, vs. the major side.

Spot on.

On the 'on time' thing, a little extra info. There's an airline who was supposedly 'the on-time king'. Another airline was formed to directly compete with them, but had problems maintaining 'on time' at the same airports the 'on time king' operated out of. They took out the ACARS and did manual time reporting just like the 'on time king' and their numbers greatly improved overnight.

If you want to know what time you'll REALLY get there, look for an airline with automatic time reporting.

Besides, it's a useless metric because what's MOST important is the arrival time. I don't care if we push back an hour late because that's probably already factored into the block time, but it's all about the arrival time.

We pushed back on-time in JFK a few weeks ago, spent more than an hour on the ground because of the delays, but still arrived in MCO on time. The people didn't really care much because the men were watching live Sports Center, the ladies "Days of our lives" and the kids probably had the Cartoon Network on the PTV's.

[EDUC8-or]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

That truly makes me angry too. I work for a regional airline, that flies for a major airline, who recently awarded some of it's routes to another regional. I work at one of the stations that this other regional is now flying into. It is one thing after another with this airline, they are late 10-20min everyday, litarally, every flight, they have maintainance issues constantly, yet everytime you "FLIFO" the flight, it is on-time. In fact, just yesterday one of the captains said they were on at 5P, in at 5:05P, which couldn't possibly be true, being as though we have to record the time when they call in on the ops frequency, and he didn't call in-range until 5:04P, and was still 15 mins out.

I directly seen this major airline lose customers due to the operation of this regional. Which leads me to another point.

Speaking of quality, vs. price. The majors needs to start looking at regionals who have quality service, and not the lowest bid .... your typical passengers doesn't know what ASA, Pinnacle, ExpressJet, etc., are. All they see is NorthWest, Delta, etc., on the side of the airplane. If they receive bad service on a regional, they also won't fly the major - because they think the regional is the major, just a smaller airplane. I wonder how much of this dissatisfaction from customers can directly be related to the regional, vs. the major side.

They stopped Mesa from doing that here in Charlotte because they were lying through their teeth about their times. When they call the ramp for push or to taxi to the gate they have to give their off and on time. I still sometimes hear them say they were off the gate 10 minutes prior to when they call for their push even though you have to move the CRJ to get the segment time started.

[Toria]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

"You get what you pay for" has never been more true than the airline industry of 2007.

The poor service I was referring to earlier was experienced while sitting in First Class on a full fare First Class ticket on a Major (not the regional DBA).

I completely understand that many factors are out of the direct control of the airline employees. However, this was a morning flight, that operated in good weather with a crew on the first leg of the day. If there were contributing circumstances, they would have been applied to my opinion. Sadly, there were none apparent, so they have lost my business.

The routes I fly most frequently when I go commercial are: TUS-DCA, TUS-YYZ, and TUS-JFK and overseas/South America. I have had exceptional service on all of these routes by other carriers. I will stick with them from now on.

[SkyCougar]

Originally Posted by Toria

The poor service I was referring to earlier was experienced while sitting in First Class on a full fare First Class ticket on a Major (not the regional DBA).

I completely understand that many factors are out of the direct control of the airline employees. However, this was a morning flight, that operated in good weather with a crew on the first leg of the day. If there were contributing circumstances, they would have been applied to my opinion. Sadly, there were none apparent, so they have lost my business.

The routes I fly most frequently when I go commercial are: TUS-DCA, TUS-YYZ, and TUS-JFK and overseas/South America. I have had exceptional service on all of these routes by other carriers. I will stick with them from now on.

I'm curious as to what you define as "poor service?" And because you were a full fare first class passenger, did you talk to a customer service rep or write a letter to the airline to make an official complaint and to see if you could be reimbursed or issued a voucher?

[Toria]

Originally Posted by SkyCougar

I'm curious as to what you define as "poor service?" And because you were a full fare first class passenger, did you talk to a customer service rep or write a letter to the airline to make an official complaint and to see if you could be reimbursed or issued a voucher?

Yes, I spoke to the service rep.

Poor service is when the FAs (all four) heat their own food in the toaster oven and eat in front of you before offering anything, including water, to the passengers. Poor service is no food at all, not so much as a cracker, for a flight of >2 hours (airline, not FA). Poor service is the attitude of the FAs when asked for anything while they carried on like school girls about their personal lives. Poor service is when the FA tells you that she is too "busy" to help while she is chatting about a fashion magazine with the other FA. The intonation and facial expressions of the FAs on those flights were more the problem than anything I described above. It was clear that my asking for water was a huge distraction from the gossip of the day. I was made to feel like my requests were huge inconveniences and that the FAs were tremendously bothered by my asking. All of the passengers had the same experience. Three of us complained.

Compared to service I have received on a regular basis on other carriers, this was poor.

[SkyCougar]

Originally Posted by Toria

Yes, I spoke to the service rep.

Poor service is when the FAs (all four) heat their own food in the toaster oven and eat in front of you before offering anything, including water, to the passengers. Poor service is no food at all, not so much as a cracker, for a flight of >2 hours (airline, not FA). Poor service is the attitude of the FAs when asked for anything while they carried on like school girls about their personal lives. Poor service is when the FA tells you that she is too "busy" to help while she is chatting about a fashion magazine with the other FA. The intonation and facial expressions of the FAs on those flights were more the problem than anything I described above. It was clear that my asking for water was a huge distraction from the gossip of the day. I was made to feel like my requests were huge inconveniences and that the FAs were tremendously bothered by my asking. All of the passengers had the same experience. Three of us complained.

Compared to service I have received on a regular basis on other carriers, this was poor.

Wow! Really??? So then what domestic airline was this on??? I must be one lucky gal then, because flight attendants are almost always pleasant to me. It's a rare occasion when I've seen a rude flight attendant. I've seen them get a little testy with other passengers, but usually the passenger brings it on by being demanding, and/or drunk, and deserves it.

There were times I've wanted more water after the FA's were done serving and were chatting in the galley, or looking at a magazine. So if the seat belt sign is turned off, I usually welcome the chance to jump up, head to the galley, share a laugh or two with them, and of course ask them if the pilots are cute. They usually then wink, laugh, and tell me to check them out after the flight and then they usually ask me the rest of the flight if I need anything to drink. That's usually how my domestic flights go.

My international flights, well truthfully those are often easier on the flight attendants because if you're in business or first class, they just keep refilling your champagne glass until you pass out and then you can't be too demanding! Although there is always the full-of-theirself obnoxious drunk that might rear their ugly little head.

So then do tell what domestic airline was this?... and if you won't fly domestic anymore, then how do you get to your house in Jackson Hole?
Silly me, I forgot that you were a Veterinarian/MD/Ph.D/Pilot!

[tonyw]

My experience with airlines has generally been positive but I'm pretty low maintenance.

I keep my expectations in check. If I'm in coach, I expect a seat, a safe flight, and a relatively ontime flight. Give me that and it's all good.

If I'm in first, I expect more, like a pre-flight drink, refills when my glass gets empty, and so on.

I've rarely had to ask for anything so I'm cool with it.

[kellwolf]

My guess given the routes she mentioned: US Airways. As for the FAs eating, it's possible (even likely) that on the ground before takeoff is the only time they HAVE to eat. I'd much rather them eat food before takeoff than during the flight when they're needed a bit more. The attitudes, well, there's nothing good that can be said about that. But the eating before offering food to other passengers, I can let slide b/c I've been in nearly the same situation flying the airplanes.

[Toria]

Originally Posted by SkyCougar

Wow! Really???

On most of my approximately 50 commercial round trips each year, the service has been very good to excellent. I had not flown United domestically for years. We were not offered drinks on the ground on either leg of the trip. The food was heated and consumed by the FAs between FL110 and FL350. The other events were distributed between the outbound and return legs of my round trip experience. My complaint to United Customer Service was that a flight listed as a breakfast flight should include, well, breakfast. I was offered a voucher, which I accepted with the condition that it be provided in a form suitable for donation to the Make A Wish Foundation. United did comply with that request, for which I thanked them.

Indeed, I did suffer the inability to make a definitive career choice 20 years ago. I have been exceptionally privileged to be given so much opportunity. Flying started as a refuge and has turned into a passion. I am exceedingly grateful that I have also found flying.

[SkyCougar]

Originally Posted by Toria

On most of my approximately 50 commercial round trips each year, the service has been very good to excellent. I had not flown United domestically for years. We were not offered drinks on the ground on either leg of the trip. The food was heated and consumed by the FAs between FL110 and FL350. The other events were distributed between the outbound and return legs of my round trip experience. My complaint to United Customer Service was that a flight listed as a breakfast flight should include, well, breakfast. I was offered a voucher, which I accepted with the condition that it be provided in a form suitable for donation to the Make A Wish Foundation. United did comply with that request, for which I thanked them.

Indeed, I did suffer the inability to make a definitive career choice 20 years ago. I have been exceptionally privileged to be given so much opportunity. Flying started as a refuge and has turned into a passion. I am exceedingly grateful that I have also found flying.

Wow, the flight attendants were heating and eating their food during the climb? I thought they were suppose to be strapped in then.

You are one busy lady! How did you ever find time for all of that schooling? My ex is a physician and between college, medical school and residency (12+ years), I thought it would never end. I take it that you're single?

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by SkyCougar

Wow, the flight attendants were heating and eating their food during the climb? I thought they were suppose to be strapped in then.

Below 10K they should be. Above 10K, they're free to start their service.

[SkyCougar]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Below 10K they should be. Above 10K, they're free to start their service.

I've never seen flight attendants do anything else but jump up and start their service as soon as the captain turned off the seatbelt sign, especially in first class where Toria was sitting. Isn't that some sort of violation of the rules that an entire plane full of flight attendants would instead jump up and make theirselves meals and then eat them? Wouldn't the whole cabin crew get in trouble? Wouldn't the lead flight attendant tell the others to quit eating, put their fashion magazines away, and get up off their butts and start serving?

[Toria]

Originally Posted by SkyCougar

I've never seen flight attendants do anything else but jump up and start their service as soon as the captain turned off the seatbelt sign

I had never seen this before either. I may have allowed the benefit of the doubt to prevail if it was one flight. But this was not isolated to a single flight, so I have made the choice to simply not fly United again. And yes, I did spend a few days wondering what, if anything, more global was really going on that weekend.

[SkyCougar]

Originally Posted by Toria

I had never seen this before either. I may have allowed the benefit of the doubt to prevail if it was one flight. But this was not isolated to a single flight, so I have made the choice to simply not fly United again. And yes, I did spend a few days wondering what, if anything, more global was really going on that weekend.

I fly a fair amount and fly most of the majors. You said that you hadn't flown domestically on United in years, but this happened on your first flight with them after a long time? That is truly unfortunate. I don't really have a favorite airline, but the location of my residence would indicate that of course I would end up on more United flights than any other airline. I have NEVER EVER seen that sort of treatment on any United flight, or any other carrier for that matter, and I don't just fly first and business. I fly coach a lot! But I also don't make "approximately 50 domestic round trip commercial flights" a year. That is almost one round trip flight a week! I thought I was a good multi-tasker and that my life was busy, but how do you manage to practice medicine on both humans and animals, make (on average), one round trip commercial flight a week and fly your own plane???? Since you didn't answer my question about whether you were married and had children, I am assuming that you don't. Do you?

Oh, and I was also wondering what your medical specialty was (both human and vet) and where you went to medical and vet school. Maybe you know my ex! It's ok if you do, even though he's my ex, we're still friends.

[calcapt]

Originally Posted by SkyCougar

...and of course ask them if the pilots are cute. They usually then wink, laugh, and tell me to check them out after the flight.....

I tell my flight attendants to tell anyone who asks, that the captain looks like a combination of Harrison Ford, Sean Connery, Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt.

As the passengers deplane, I keep the cockpit door closed so they don't discover the truth. What kind of fantasy would it be if they knew I looked like a combination of Chris Farley, Pee Wee Herman, Bob Barker and Kid Rock?

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by SkyCougar

Wow, the flight attendants were heating and eating their food during the climb? I thought they were suppose to be strapped in then.

Nope!

Usually most of them start milling about on my airline around 10K AFE, unless it's going to be turbulent.