Thought Provoker: 2 Worst Majors?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Well, it's an easy one on #1 for me: NWA. Their work rules and contract aren't even a step above a regional....it IS a regional contract. The pay is better than a regional, but nothing to write home about for the aircraft and routes they fly. The base choices aren't all that appealing, either. As for #2, it's a toss up for me. United and US Airways b/c of the issues with labor and CAL for the pay and benefit issues for new hires.

Uhhh, aren't they basically the same as say.....oh maybe, PNCL?

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I agree but the ALPA isnt necessarily a division or branch of govts. Its one body.

Not at all. We're all individual states with a small centralized governments.

National (DC) doesn't come down to Virginia Avenue and dictate to our MEC (state). There are some good states (AZ! Wooo!) and some rotten states (uhh, don't want to step on any toes) but it's all up to local airline-specific leadership.

ALPA, national, is not a band of thugs that arrive to beat management into submission. It's more or less a big toolbox and resource kit.

[PGT]

1) NWA - everything about them (IFE is nice though)
2) United - for stranding me at LHR for 38hrs due to bs reasons

passengers point-of-view

[Doug Taylor]

A couple points, many people can't differentiate a "major" from the regional that's flying in lieu of the major.

Like I flew USAirways to Fresno a few months ago, and was about two hours late without explanation from the gate or even a realistic ETD. But it was actually Mesa... Or Freedom, I don't even know who it was.

But I think everyone largely does a good job. Most of the "this is the worst ever!" is perception.

I've generally had good experiences on everyone during my commutes from MCO<->MKE, ATL<->MCO, DFW<->PHX, PHX<->ATL, PHX<->SLC. All airlines have good days and bad days...

That's a certainty.

Can't say "USAir sucks because they're always late!" when they're flying out of a lot of eastern seaboard airports with constant weather problems and say "States West has great on-time numbers!" when they were hubbed out of severe-clear 24/7 Laughlin.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I agree but the ALPA isnt necessarily a division or branch of govts. Its one body.

Under the RLA (and for that matter the NLRA), the only recognized unions are at the local bargaining unit level. The big national unions which you would think of as "the unions" are not recognized unions, but are merely associations of local recognized unions. Thus, NLRA unions often are referred to as "Carpenter's Union, Local 1234, affiliated with blahdeblah."

NWA pilots have a union. Delta pilots have a different union. United pilots have a different union. Etc. Many of these pilots unions have associated themselves with the national ALPA organization and are "controlled," to a very limited degree, by national ALPA's associational standards. But, at the end of the day, it is up to each local union to make its own decisions and its own deals.

[Doug Taylor]

Correcto.

But you're a labor attorney, of course you're correct!

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by JEP

Uhhh, aren't they basically the same as say.....oh maybe, PNCL?

Yes, but I don't really want to STAY in MEM the rest of my life.....unless FedEx comes calling.

Merit, you'll have to look back in history to see what ALPA has done for the profession ESPECIALLY in the safety realm. It's not all about the Benjamins. Well, it is for some people, I guess. Two books: Flying the Line Vol I and II. Go read those two, then come back and tell me ALPA has destroyed the profession.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Merit, you'll have to look back in history to see what ALPA has done for the profession ESPECIALLY in the safety realm. It's not all about the Benjamins. Well, it is for some people, I guess. Two books: Flying the Line Vol I and II. Go read those two, then come back and tell me ALPA has destroyed the profession.

I will get right on that.

Like said, not necessarily anti-union but I havent seen anything but loss across the board.

I also think you run into a conflict of interest between the ALPA representing the regionals and majors. But thats just me.

[Doug Taylor]

And which non-union carrier would you like to work for?

UPS -- union...

FDX -- union...

SWA -- union...

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

And which non-union carrier would you like to work for?

UPS -- union...

FDX -- union...

SWA -- union...

Oh but Doug, I want to work for SKYW forevaaaaaar!!!

Not mocking merit, but in my travels I hear that from alot people. Even heard it from a few people on this site!

Now one of the few that have said that is at Alaska!

Go figure, eh!?

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I also think you run into a conflict of interest between the ALPA representing the regionals and majors. But thats just me.

No, it's not just you. Which is why you'll see a LOT of local unions sorta fighting their major union brothers. Wouldn't be surprised to see Mesaba and NWA going at it if the NWA greivance on their scope clause gets the attention it should. The difference is that the former head of ALPA national basically didn't care at all about the regionals. From some of the stuff Prater has said, he's got some good ideas that would actually help out the regionals.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I also think you run into a conflict of interest between the ALPA representing the regionals and majors. But thats just me.

It's an amazing conflict of interest. Kind of the elephant in the room that everyone pretends isn't there. It was fascinating over the years to watch ALPA first ignore or denigrate regional pilots, then switch to a frantic effort to organize them before it was too late.

[meritflyer]

Has there ever been any talk about a Regional ALPA and a Major ALPA?

[Murdoughnut]

I'm kinda interested in the fact that no one mentioned AA. Here would be my complaints:

1) "Oh, you live in Dallas, then bend-over!"
2) "That'll be $300 round trip, or $1120 one way"
3) "You can redeem your frequent flyer miles as long as you fly on a Tuesday morning before 6:30am, and on a day that isn't recognized as a holiday by any of the 192 UN member nations.?
4) Every flight attendant is somebody's mother-in-law from hell.
5) "What?! Some exec was given a discounted cart rental on his most recent round of golf? Where's our discounted cart rental!? Followed by week long pilot strike.

[Champcar]

AA is terrible, overpriced and no service
DL

[Stone Cold]

1) CAL due to the history there

2) AA due to TWA debacle (and keep in mind, I have family there, and know a bunch of people there)

and 3) for good measure SWA since they still are a PFT operator.

How's that for preachy??!!!

[Doug Taylor]

American's not overpriced if they've got an 83% load factor. Source

I'd say they're priced just about right!

[PGT]

I like AA, they are my first choice when traveling.

I booked a co-worker on AA to Mexico....well she didn't speak highly of them. She went as far as saying that if I ever fly for AA, she'll stop talking to me

[Polarbear]

#1. AA/AE Although I do have to say it is not a bad place for a mechanic to start out.
#2. Scabwest (Oops I mean Northwest) and US Air tied.

[FlyBullFly]

I think I would have to go with
1) NWA- 'cuz jumping on them is like trying to pull teeth
2) Anything that goes through PHL.