Help w/ flight training

[Pilot84]

Hey all, Im currently working on my ASEL. However I am having some difficulties with some of the maneuvers. Specifically with lazy 8s and chandelles. So CFI's and students Im asking you to help. Share some techniques you have used to master these maneuvers. I have been practicing and practicing and just cant get em down. My instructor and I are getting real frustrated. Please help.

[Pilot2087]

I "winged" them maneuvers on my checkride (sad but true), I did my training in Seminoles and could barely fly a Cessna when I did my checkride. The key is IMO is to act confident on the checkride, and act as you know how to do it, (but dont be cocky). But if you go in with the "I cant do it altitude", your examiner will feel it.

Others here may be able to give you some good techniques.

[Holding Short]

Be agressive, whip that thing around. Don't just be a passenger.

Just keep saying to you're self "Who's your daddy".

HS

[meyers9163]

Make the plane your (blank)! My cfi always tells me this, "Paul the plane is your (ding)! Paul what is the plane?! Just keep that approach and you will be fine!

[MichaelCPS]

Originally Posted by Pilot84

Hey all, Im currently working on my ASEL. However I am having some difficulties with some of the maneuvers. Specifically with lazy 8s and chandelles. So CFI's and students Im asking you to help. Share some techniques you have used to master these maneuvers. I have been practicing and practicing and just cant get em down. My instructor and I are getting real frustrated. Please help.

What type of aircraft are you flying?

I am in the process of finishing up two Commercial pilots that I have been working with the past week. One finished his CSEL ride Friday (Pass) and the other takes his checkride Sunday. Here is my advice:

1) Take your time setting up the maneuvers. Any variation in entry speed, power, or attitude is going to change the desired outcome.
2) Take your time when doing the maneuvers. Too many students rush them. Chandelles and Lazy Eights are slow, methodical maneuvers. I have had a lot of students do wing-overs instead of Lazy Eights. Slow the plane down and do it right. You will be rewarded with the desired outcome within PTS.
3) On Chandelles, count: "One one thousand, two one thousand" at the ninety degree point before starting the rollout. Most students either A) Identify the 90 degree point before actually arriving at it or B) Take out too much bank initially. This will take care of both problems. Just don't count out loud on your checkride!
4) On Lazy Eights, just set an initial bank of 10 degrees. What will happen as you pitch up is that the aircraft will continue to bank anyways, and you will get you the 45 degree point and have an easy transition to 30 degrees of bank. Make sure you don't rollout too much bank for the 135 degree point.

The maneuvers are relatively easy once you get them! I actually think steep spirals and 180 degree accuracy landings are more difficult to learn and perform consistently since varying conditions greatly affect the outcome.

My student on Friday had to do this on his checkride:

1) Steep Spiral over an Airport
2) Combined with a simulated emergency landing
3) And the 180 Degree Accuracy landing thrown on top of that!!!!!

-Michael

[montanapilot]

Originally Posted by MichaelCPS

My student on Friday had to do this on his checkride:

1) Steep Spiral over an Airport
2) Combined with a simulated emergency landing
3) And the 180 Degree Accuracy landing thrown on top of that!!!!!

-Michael

thats the norm for our checkrides 'round here too.

[kellwolf]

A lot depends on the type of plane you're flying. The Cessna, you'll have to fly through the manuever. The Arrow...well, you can get the nose up and sorta let it slice through on the lazy eights. With the Cessna, you'll have to push the nose over. With the Arrow, it's more of just releasing back pressure, and the weight of the plane will pull you through. Some examiners like to see the slow methodical approach, some like to see something more extreme. TECHNICALLY, as long as you do it within PTS you should pass. In reality....sometimes that's not true. I've heard of guys doing the slow, methodical approach with some examiners, and the examiner pinked him for not getting slow enough or high enough at the top of the manuever. Technically, he was still within PTS, but he didn't do it the way the examiner liked it. As an instructor, I liked to know how every DE wanted to see the manuevers. That way I could make sure the student knew how to do it the right way AND their way.

Never had a DE do a steep spiral over an airport to one of my students, but *I* did it to them plenty of times, just in case.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

A lot depends on the type of plane you're flying. The Cessna, you'll have to fly through the manuever. The Arrow...well, you can get the nose up and sorta let it slice through on the lazy eights. With the Cessna, you'll have to push the nose over.

Not true. If you get it slow enough, with bank as described by MichaelCPS, the nose will come down and increase the bank on its own.

The Commercial Manuevers are too subjective, IMO.

[MichaelCPS]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Some examiners like to see the slow methodical approach, some like to see something more extreme. TECHNICALLY, as long as you do it within PTS you should pass. In reality....sometimes that's not true. I've heard of guys doing the slow, methodical approach with some examiners, and the examiner pinked him for not getting slow enough or high enough at the top of the manuever. Technically, he was still within PTS, but he didn't do it the way the examiner liked it.

A DPE should not be able to be subjective when it comes to PTS. If I came across a DPE that did not stick strictly to the PTS, I would have a talk with his/her FSDO. They publish the PTS for a reason, and that is to keep everything standardized.

[Airdale]

I think Michael's advice is right on. Its been a long time since I've done those maneuvers, but one thing I remember from my checkride, was that the examiner has a difficult time of really grading you on your rollout points etc. Because you are using reference points on your side of the airplane from your perspective, he can not judge 100% whether you are hitting your mark or not. So make sure you are very verbal, and like Michael said, just take your time. Be smooth and make the lazy eights LAZY!! Its like doing a really really slow half pipe in the sky.

[Pilot84]

Thanks for your responses. Hopefully I will soon be able to write that I passed my ASEL checkride with no problem. By the way I currently fly 172R.

[dc3flyer]

Do you talk yourself (and the instructor) through the maneuvers? I had a hard time with lazy 8's and turns around pylons. The only way I got it was by getting into the textbook procedures and talking, talking, talking during the maneuvers. Even if I messed up a little, the examiner knew I knew what I should be doing!!