UAL ALPA sticks it to the man

[BobDDuck]

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/resou...070420224.html

Watch the video at the end.

[surreal1221]

Just came across it over at APC...

Good stuff.

[H46Bubba]

Time to take it back!

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by H46Bubba

Time to take it back!

This phrase keeps going around. "Time to take it back", "taking it back", and so forth. I am a little skeptic that the wages will ever return. Now that airline mgmt has seen their pilots will work for 40-60% less, I highly doubt they are ever going to, in the generous hearts, give their pilots a 50% raise.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

This phrase keeps going around. "Time to take it back", "taking it back", and so forth. I am a little skeptic that the wages will ever return. Now that airline mgmt has seen their pilots will work for 40-60% less, I highly doubt they are ever going to, in the generous hearts, give their pilots a 50% raise.

It is "time to take it back". It is up to the pilots to fight for what we believe in. Don't be skeptical, fight for what is right and we as professional pilots deserve! Management shouldn't 'give' us anything. We will fight for what we are owed.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Seggy

It is "time to take it back". It is up to the pilots to fight for what we believe in. Don't be skeptical, fight for what is right and we as professional pilots deserve! Management shouldn't 'give' us anything. We will fight for what we are owed.

People need to put a price on what their services are worth. Like said though, I just have a difficult time thinking mgmt will return wages to years prior. For every pro pilot's sake though, it'd be a great victory should it occur.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

People need to put a price on what their services are worth. Like said though, I just have a difficult time thinking mgmt will return wages to years prior. For every pro pilot's sake though, it'd be a great victory should it occur.

Management doesn't "return" wages.

Remember, we're a cost. So any increase in compensation (increase in labor cost if you're mgmt) is going to present a struggle.

Personally, I'm ready to whip some ace. But we've all got to be on the same page else some doofus will once again say, 'Dude! Give ME the jets, I'll do it for less! I just love flying' and the spiral continues.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Management doesn't "return" wages.

Remember, we're a cost. So any increase in compensation (increase in labor cost if you're mgmt) is going to present a struggle.

Personally, I'm ready to whip some ace. But we've all got to be on the same page else some doofus will once again say, 'Dude! Give ME the jets, I'll do it for less! I just love flying' and the spiral continues.

Yeah, "return" was a bad description.

But I think you get what I am saying.

It'd be nice to see EVERY US pilot walk off the job for a day (or week) and say "this is what we're worth. Pay it or find new pilots."

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

It'd be nice to see EVERY US pilot walk off the job for a day (or week) and say "this is what we're worth. Pay it or find new pilots."

Thought you didn't like unions.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Thought you didn't like unions.

Marry me.

[skydog]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Yeah, "return" was a bad description.

But I think you get what I am saying.

It'd be nice to see EVERY US pilot walk off the job for a day (or week) and say "this is what we're worth. Pay it or find new pilots."

You don't get what your "worth" by walking of the job. You get it by not walking on the job in the first place.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by skydog

You don't get what your "worth" by walking off the job. You get it by not walking on the job in the first place.

In the case of the airlines, your philosophy doesnt work. Most of the guys that have been crapped on were there when it was a better job. Now, they take 40-60% paycuts, lose pensions, and see a decrease in work rules.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Personally, I'm ready to whip some ace. But we've all got to be on the same page else some doofus will once again say, 'Dude! Give ME the jets, I'll do it for less! I just love flying' and the spiral continues.

So maybe ALPA needs to take dude out back and work him over a little bit until he sees the light.












sort of

[Timbuff10]

So why, when they reworked the contract after 9/11 so that the airlines can be saved, did the labor groups not put something in there saying that the wages will return to where they were once the airline is saved?

Another thing I found interesting, I just read today that more than half of United's flights out of DEN are on regional jets.

[skydog]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

In the case of the airlines, your philosophy doesnt work. Most of the guys that have been crapped on were there when it was a better job. Now, they take 40-60% paycuts, lose pensions, and see a decrease in work rules.

It's not my philosphy, it's economic reality. The moment any person accepts a job for any salary, he defines his worth in the market place. A person who stays on the job after the drastic changes you mentioned continues to define his worth in the marketplace.

You're seeing that economic reality at work the regional level. People are deciding they are worth more than 18-24K a year, hence the regionals having difficulty filling slots.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by skydog

It's not my philosphy, it's economic reality. The moment any person accepts a job for any salary, he defines his worth in the market place. A person who stays on the job after the drastic changes you mentioned continues to define his worth in the marketplace.

You're seeing that economic reality at work the regional level. People are deciding they are worth more than 18-24K a year, hence the regionals having difficulty filling slots.

When people start leaving a job in droves, if you're management, you gotta ask yourself why.

And then you gotta ask yourself if you care.

Obviously, the answer at some airlines is not just no, but hell no. As long as they can keep on bringing in starry eyed new pilots who are sporting wood just to have the title "airline pilot" they're gonna keep the pay low.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by tonyw

When people start leaving a job in droves, if you're management, you gotta ask yourself why.

And then you gotta ask yourself if you care.

Obviously, the answer at some airlines is not just no, but hell no. As long as they can keep on bringing in starry eyed new pilots who are sporting wood just to have the title "airline pilot" they're gonna keep the pay low.

I agree with you both as a matter of basic economics. Where I see the airlines a little differently is the pilots who've been there for for 10-20+ years. Their financial livelihood was [is] dependant on the career they've established flying. Not exaclty something you can just walk away from. Especially with a home and family.

[DE727UPS]

"As long as they can keep on bringing in starry eyed new pilots who are sporting wood just to have the title "airline pilot"

And as long as there are places like Jet U and Gulfstream with big ads in Flying Magazine touting the career, there will be no shortage of people to fill in at the bottom.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

And as long as there are places like Jet U and Gulfstream with big ads in Flying Magazine touting the career, there will be no shortage of people to fill in at the bottom.

With minimums at the regionals as low as they are I can't imagine why anyone would decide to go for those options anyway. How can Gulfstream compete with 250-400TT minimums!

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

So why, when they reworked the contract after 9/11 so that the airlines can be saved, did the labor groups not put something in there saying that the wages will return to where they were once the airline is saved?

Another thing I found interesting, I just read today that more than half of United's flights out of DEN are on regional jets.

Whats the point of that. So the airline can go right back bankrupt.

UAL and DAL ALPA where in a wage war at the time. They both went back and forth with pay increases trying to top each other and things got out of hand.

[Doug Taylor]

Thaaaaaaaaaat's a little overly simplistic.

A single "UAL-Plus" does not equal a wage war.

Besides, airlines do not go bankrupt over labor costs.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by tonyw

sporting wood

...what, like a tennis racket or hockey stick or something??

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Whats the point of that. So the airline can go right back bankrupt.

UAL and DAL ALPA where in a wage war at the time. They both went back and forth with pay increases trying to top each other and things got out of hand.

Gradual increases... Not all at once so the company goes back under the instant they emerge. Just can't believe that wasn't negotiated a few years ago.

If someone asked you for help due to their current rough times would you not expect help when they are back on their feet and can help you out?

[Soul Brotha']

I had to deadhead the other day from BOS on DL and they were oversold so they asked me if I could sit up front to accomodate them. I agreed and rode home up front. The guys were very nice and we talked almost the whole way down. One of the biggest questions they had to me was why did we take concessions at OH? I am still on probation so I had no vote. I myself wonder why they caved in. People think that if you don't lower your costs you will no longer exist. Is this the situation? What if Comair pilots told management to kiss their booty and said no? Would Comair cease to exist in a couple of months? Then I asked the two pilots a question, "Why did you guys agree to almost a 50% pay cut in the past few years?" They told me that Delta would have gone out of business if the pilots/FA's/mechanics didn't all agree. Is there a difference in their paycuts v.s. ours? I'm still new and still don't quite get all the airline business. The reason I choose OH over all the other regionals was their pay at the time.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Soul Brotha'

"Why did you guys agree to almost a 50% pay cut in the past few years?" They told me that Delta would have gone out of business if the pilots/FA's/mechanics didn't all agree.

Yeeeeeeaaaaaa right. DL wouldn't have liquidated over the 315 million dolalrs they wanted the pilots to give back in concessions.

Not with the billion dollars they were hiding away due to creative book keeping.

Not knocking the pilots who took you home, but sounds like they bought the company b.s. hook line and sinker.

PNCL or Mesba said the samething (ask Kellwolf) agree to concessions by XX/XX/XXXX or we will be forced to liquidate. Almost a year later still there and PNCL has no TA.

I'm no pilot (yet) but I'd not buy anything the company said during a contract negoiation period.