Nervous, Nervous, Nervous

[N422NM]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

F.

Is it really that s*itty???

Honestly, this is what you need to be prepared for:

In ground school take your colored pencils or crayola's so you can color in the color logic on the EICAS slides they give you.

Once online prepare yourself for being shorted pay, showing up at the hotels and not having a room reservation (*hotel desk seems to get it right if you are a line holder, but if you fly something reserve or something special they always dropped the ball), being told by crew tracking "well, you can take a cab to the new hotel if YOU pay for it...", Stand Up's in which the whole crew was to be housed in the same hotel room (back in '05-06), and right now junior assigning as much as possible.

I was talking with a friend that is still a regional rep there and 70 FO's resigned just last month...and they hired around 40....

Just FYI.

Good Luck.

[Toria]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Start groundschool for the CRJ in less than a week! I am nervous as hell! Left a very lucrative job for a jet job!
Finances, commuting possibly from PHX to Dulles, schedules, this, that, blah, blah..Help me! I need a Long Island and its only 8 in the morning!

When you risk everything to follow your dream, the payoff can be tremendous in its achievement.

Change is always stressful because it is unknown. In a week you will be more comfortable because it will then be familiar.

[Bog]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

F.

Is it really that s*itty???

Yes. No matter what our little ray of sunshine posted in this thread, and posts all over the Mesa Hub, IT REALLY IS THAT BAD.

Why else would MAG have FOs bailing left-and-right before completing their first year? Why else would the very first thing you see on MAG's official company website be hiring bonuses? Management is desperate. OJ always said that he was paying us too much because he had 1000s of resumes in the recruiter's office. Well, that's not that case anymore because the truth about the place is getting out (no matter what CFI says here, on The Hub, or anywhere else), and because the recruiter just quit. You WILL be mistreated, you WILL be asked (directly or indirectly) to violate FARs, the contract (bad as it is) is violated EVERY DAY by the company, and the only recourse is the grievance process which can take years to complete.

Want more? Here's more concrete information that Ray Of Sunshine cannot dispute. For the last 12+ bid periods at MAG, I was awarded lines that were supposed to pay 80-90 hours. Each and every one of those 12+ bids, I only made my minimum 70 hours because of MX and WX cancellations and "reassignments." EVERY ONE! At a minimum that's $7000 because the company is so jacked up! No way to put a positive spin on that one.

You asked, so here's a great example. Last fall, I flew BNA to ORD to FSD. We started with a 5:15am show for what was supposed to be a 6-leg, 13.5 hour duty day. Well, in my history at MAG, I averaged about a 40% completion rate for days like those, and I had days like those about 6 times per bid. So, we get to FSD at around noon. The gate agent informs us that our wheels-up time is 1330. We sit. We wait. The time gets pushed back again, and again, and again, and again. Skywest comes in from DEN around 1530 or 1600 to do a turn and go to ORD. We're both seriously delayed. Then, at 2000, the Skywest CA gets a call from his dispatcher and learns that his flight is cancelled, and that he and his crew can go to the hotel which has already been arranged. At 2015, still hearing NOTHING from MAG, I make yet another call. At 2045, after being on hold for 30 minutes (and after seeing in a computer that my flight had cancelled), I finally get a MAG employee to confirm that yes my flight had cancelled, but they had no idea what they were doing with us, so just hang out and wait for a call back. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Have I mentioned that the next day was a day off for me? Well, around 2130, after I made three more phone calls, we're told that we're cancelled, we're dutied off, and we need to repo the airplane in the morning after getting our 8 hours of "rest." Oh, but no hotel is setup for us yet, and that takes another 20 minutes. So, we finally get to the hotel at 2200, so that we can take a 0530 van back to the airport to repo the plane ON MY DAY OFF. Oh, and the other round trip I was supposed to do was also cancelled and I didn't get paid for it. I had to repo the airplane on my day off, and I could have asked for another day off to compensate for that, but then I'd lose every ounce of pay on the new day off. So, it's a lose-lose for me no matter how you look at it.

Days like those happened at least once a month to me and everyone else at MAG. Maybe it's not that bad (yet) in PHX, but you won't be going there anyway. You might enjoy your first couple of months, but you'll be hating life at the year mark. Just about everyone does.

As the saying goes ... friends don't let friends fly for MAG. Just ask around.

/rant

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by N422NM

Honestly, this is what you need to be prepared for:

In ground school take your colored pencils or crayola's so you can color in the color logic on the EICAS slides they give you.

Once online prepare yourself for being shorted pay, showing up at the hotels and not having a room reservation (*hotel desk seems to get it right if you are a line holder, but if you fly something reserve or something special they always dropped the ball), being told by crew tracking "well, you can take a cab to the new hotel if YOU pay for it...", Stand Up's in which the whole crew was to be housed in the same hotel room (back in '05-06), and right now junior assigning as much as possible.

I was talking with a friend that is still a regional rep there and 70 FO's resigned just last month...and they hired around 40....

Just FYI.

Good Luck.

Which would all be great stuff - if any of it was true...... But it isn't, so what can you do?

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by Bog

Yes. No matter what our little ray of sunshine posted in this thread, and posts all over the Mesa Hub, IT REALLY IS THAT BAD.

These are all great stories - and no doubt the people telling them have deluded themselves into thinking they are true. And yet I can never actually find a REAL person who has lived these kinds of nightmares.

Once in a while a trip gets really jacked up, but I'm sure that happens everywhere when places like JFK shutdown for snow. People get junior assigned, but nothing like as often as people claim. Turns get cancelled but nothing like as often as people claim.

If you spent six months and only ever made guarantee then there's something wrong with your story, because you can't have it both ways. Either you're being junior assigned like crazy or not flying enough to make guarantee - but it can't be both.

Look - MESA works rules are horrible, such as they are. The company sees pilots as a cost of doing business and treats them with little respect. But if you're mature, you understand what you're getting into, and you keep you head down and do your job you can get in and out. If you want a regional career, you don't want to be at Mesa. If you want to fly and move on, it's just fine. I've sat in airports and crew buses with people from other regionals, they've all got their stories.

[Bog]

CFI: I spent SEVEN YEARS AT MAG! Every part of my post is true, and my EXAMPLE was only for the last 12+ bids. I can assure you that, in my SEVEN YEARS AS A MAG PILOT, I only got paid 70 hours for about 65% of my time, and I was only a reserve pilot for a grand total of 7 bids in SEVEN YEARS.

You can claim all day long that the stories on The Hub, here, FlightInfo, and everywhere else are complete bs and that they're all made up by the same 3 people who are upset because they didn't upgrade in 3 months. You can believe that, if that is what gets you through the night. However, as someone who LIVED the MAG nightmare for SEVEN YEARS, and who can give you (or more importantly meritflyer) a LONG LIST of people who can and will vouch for those stories, I can assure you that they are 99% true.

[kellwolf]

Wow. I thought we had it bad over here. A flight CXs here, and we get 50% pay. We have the option to put ourselves airport reserve and get 100%, though. The trick is to do it after 7:30 pm in MEM. "Sure, you're airport reserve now." There aren't anymore flights leaving, so I just got paid 100% to drive home. Sucks, but at least we have the option. Also, if it's between turn, I'm gonna be at the airport anyway. Might as well get paid to sit there instead of the $1.40 an hour per diem alone.

In Feb, I had three flights CX due to staffing issues. Luckily, I had zero in March. April is looking about the same, since I actually have a CA and a FA scheduled for every flight that month. I've shown up to a hotel as a reserve before, and there wasn't a reservation. Quick call to scheduling, and they faxed the request to the front desk. Inconvenience, but still better than what things seem to be over at MAG. Since I've been off reserve, I've only had one issue with a hotel, and that was the hotel's fault, not PCL's. That little issue landed me on the hotel committee, too. I've been extended into my day off twice here. Both times I got 150% plus another day off down the road since it reduced me below 10 days for the month.

I've seen some of the improvements that have been TA'd in the scheduling part of our new contract, and there have been some significant improvements over what we have now. If we could just get the scope and compensation worked out, I think we'd be done.

[inside0ut]

I have 2 friends that fly at MAG and actually....they love it. One is a CA and one is FO. They have both told me as long as I dont get mixed up in the bitching and whining, my time here wont be as bad as people say. I dont know, ive heard the horror stories but I guess I will have to see what my experience with it is. I try and not feed into the negativity and keep a positive outlook. Like my dad says, it is what YOU make of it.

[GaTechKid]

I'm sure most of us at JC, myself included, would take Bog's accounts over any other every day of the week. I see how much of a cluster the MAG operation is at ORD every day, and I hear about it from the guys who jumpseat on my flights.

[inside0ut]

Originally Posted by GaTechKid

I'm sure most of us at JC, myself included, would take Bog's accounts over any other every day of the week. I see how much of a cluster the MAG operation is at ORD every day, and I hear about it from the guys who jumpseat on my flights.

Understandable, but when its guys youve flown with for the last 6 years telling you that there are good points and bad points and what to expect, its alot diffrent than someone I dont know from adam telling me a horror story. I tend to believe the guys who I know for a fact wont blow smoke up my ass.

Anyway, who knows? MAG's contract is up in Sept. and they may fight for better work rules, block or better plus pay raises ect. Then maybe Mesa will be the place to be. I could tell you how Mesaba used to be the place to be and a few of my friends ran there. Within a year and a half they were furloghed while everyone else was hiring like crazy. Then you have to think "do I leave and give up my # and start from scratch or stick it out?" Every place has their probs, its how you deal with it sometimes makes the difference.....

[Vladimir Lenin]

wow...i dont post here often, but dude...commute from PHX to IAD to sit reserve at mesa? ARE U INSANE !?!?!?!?!

[FLflyer]

Originally Posted by Vladimir Lenin

wow...i dont post here often, but dude...commute from PHX to IAD to sit reserve at mesa? ARE U INSANE !?!?!?!?!

My thoughts exactly...Holy crap. Your 8 days off a months just went to about 4 days off a month. Not trying to rain on your parade, I just hope you realize that. Mesa didn't get a bad rep for no reason.
On a side note, had a Mesa guy on the jumpseat the other day, he was asking us all kinds of questions about our contract, and telling us how fed up he was at Mesa, sick of being abused there, and was considering coming here to XJT after spending over a year at Mesa. We have several guys here that have done that, actually.

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by Bog

CFI: I spent SEVEN YEARS AT MAG! Every part of my post is true, and my EXAMPLE was only for the last 12+ bids. I can assure you that, in my SEVEN YEARS AS A MAG PILOT, I only got paid 70 hours for about 65% of my time, and I was only a reserve pilot for a grand total of 7 bids in SEVEN YEARS.

You can claim all day long that the stories on The Hub, here, FlightInfo, and everywhere else are complete bs and that they're all made up by the same 3 people who are upset because they didn't upgrade in 3 months. You can believe that, if that is what gets you through the night. However, as someone who LIVED the MAG nightmare for SEVEN YEARS, and who can give you (or more importantly meritflyer) a LONG LIST of people who can and will vouch for those stories, I can assure you that they are 99% true.

And yet you can never find those people. I run into people all the time who tell me "look out, there's lots of junior assignment going on". So I ask them when they were last junior assigned, "oh me, it's been a couple of months for me, but I heard that it's going on". You never find anybody who is actually being junior assigned on a routine basis, or being awarded line of flying and just making guarantee - you just hear about them.

I just don't believe you - you made minimum 65% of the time - I never make minimum, and I rarely pick up open time. Are you sure we're talking about the same Mesa??

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by inside0ut

Anyway, who knows? MAG's contract is up in Sept. and they may fight for better work rules, block or better plus pay raises ect. Then maybe Mesa will be the place to be.

Careful with this thinking. Look up how long ASA's contract has been up. At PCL, our contract was ammendable 2 years ago, and we're just starting to get CLOSE to a new deal. I have no doubts the Mesa pilots will fight for a better contract, and fight HARD. I wouldn't expect that contract to materialize quickly, though. Management is gonna fight just as hard to NOT give up those things.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by CFIse

I just don't believe you - you made minimum 65% of the time - I never make minimum, and I rarely pick up open time. Are you sure we're talking about the same Mesa??

So what you're saying is that even if more people told their stories, you wouldn't believe them either, right?

[inside0ut]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Careful with this thinking. Look up how long ASA's contract has been up. At PCL, our contract was ammendable 2 years ago, and we're just starting to get CLOSE to a new deal. I have no doubts the Mesa pilots will fight for a better contract, and fight HARD. I wouldn't expect that contract to materialize quickly, though. Management is gonna fight just as hard to NOT give up those things.

Sorry, I wasnt trying to infer that it would be an overnight deal, I was figuring 1 or 2 years. My main point was that its up and things could only get better(hopefully) and what was crap one day may turn into something great the next. I think they are realizing by turnover rate that things are not ok. The shear cost of training new pilots over retaining ones that have been trained is completly cost ineffective. Hell even at wal-mart they try and hang on to you for atleast 1 year, even the cost of traing a new hire there is $5000. And thats to stock shelves. Time=money and if they can curb the outflow they would save a ton of money, even with concessions to pilots....

Just think, if the QOL at Mesa goes up, maybe itll make the other RJ's look up and take note......heres to hoping!!!

[IWExcelsiorE]

I just want to wish you "good luck"! Were all counting on you!


I just want to wish you "good luck"! Were all counting on you!


I just want to wish you "good luck"! Were all counting on you!


I just want to wish you "good luck"! Were all counting on you!

[kellwolf]

I think it was something in the $20-30 range for a new hire FO here at PCL. The breeze from the revolving door hasn't caused management here to step up the pay much at all. The last numbers I heard from management was a NO raise for year one, and a $4 raise for year two, which would still have it less than average. Both PCL and Mesa try to play the "but you upgrade so fast, what do you care what you make years two and three" cards. Personally, I can't upgrade if I starve to death during years 1-2.5. The union has tried the "raise the pay scale to cut down on the cost of training" arguement numerous times. Here, at least, it's fallen on deaf ears. Maybe Mesa will listen, though. It's not the pilots at Mesa I have a lack of faith in, it's the craftiness management has shown in screwing over the pilots I'm afraid of.

[IWExcelsiorE]

Jeez la weeez if this is the airline he wants to fly for then why is EVERYONE giving him heck for it?


Just wish the man good luck!


GOOD LUCK!

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by IWExcelsiorE

Jeez la weeez if this is the airline he wants to fly for then why is EVERYONE giving him heck for it?


Just wish the man good luck!


GOOD LUCK!

Don't think that anyone is giving him heck for it. There are just some people who have first hand experience with Mesa, and want him to know what to expect and to go in (should he still choose) with eyes wide open, and not closed!

[Doug Taylor]

One thing you guys have to realize is that I've know Bog for almost 20 years and he's about as raw and painfully honest as they come. Not the online personna "Bog" but the actual person.

Believe you me, I know! Geez, I could tell some stories, but HOO, we'll have to save those for another time.

You may have friends that say that it's wine, roses and gouda cheese, but they're not online offering their perspective today in this conversation.

Of course take anything you read on the intarweb with a grain of salt, but gather all available information and decide for yourself. Don't just pick and choose information consistent with your unrequited love with a particular airline or your absolute disdain.

The truth is someplace in the middle. Seek it.

[bLizZuE]

You wouldn't be in this position if you weren't ready for it. Congratulations, and good luck!

[Bog]

Originally Posted by CFIse

And yet you can never find those people. I run into people all the time who tell me "look out, there's lots of junior assignment going on". So I ask them when they were last junior assigned, "oh me, it's been a couple of months for me, but I heard that it's going on". You never find anybody who is actually being junior assigned on a routine basis, or being awarded line of flying and just making guarantee - you just hear about them.

I just don't believe you - you made minimum 65% of the time - I never make minimum, and I rarely pick up open time. Are you sure we're talking about the same Mesa??

You really are hilarious. You've been at MAG less than two years, but you know it all? If your life in IAD is all sunshine and roses, then CONGRATS! You're one of the chosen few, and Johnny loves you! Hell, he probably sees how much sunshine you post all over the internet, and makes sure you have a good schedule.

You do not live in the reality known as MAG. I'd keep posting on here, but you'll continue to tell me that I'm full of dog poop, and that I never even worked at MAG. To quote the old Anthrax song: "Talking to you is like clapping with one hand." It cannot be done. Have a nice day. I suppose the LEAD crew tracker who tried to get me to fly revenue past 16 hours by saying "Legal to start, legal to finish, right?!" was just a dream, too.

For the rest of you, as I've mentioned before, it's my responsibility to share my experiences with any of you thinking of working at MAG, just the same as all the other regional pilots share their experiences. We cannot and will not make the decision for you, but we all want you to be fully informed about your future. That's why we're here. That's why we give our time.

[Seggy]

Bog, thank you for posting the truth about MAG and the crap that goes down there.

[Bog]

It gets better. I just did my taxes. In 2005, at a lower payrate, I made over $2000 MORE than I did in 2006. Let's also add in that two bid periods in 2005 were on reserve.

It should be the other way around. Plain and simple, that shows how much money you can lose when you don't have cancellation pay.