How important is your degree?

[LuckyBambu]

Sorry if this in the wrong section, but I couldn't really find anywhere else where I think it would fit better. Move it if it doesn't belong here.

Anyways, if you haven't read my introduction post, I'm a Sophomore in high school. I've been reading up on here that in order to get hired as an airline pilot, you should have a degree, but the type of degree isn't really all that important. How true is this? I was looking at Lewis University for Aviation/Flight, but it would be a lot less expensive to go alternative routes.

Also, how do airlines generally take foreign degrees? I can go to any of Japan's top schools for free, sponsored by their government, travel, food, medical, etc paid for and all. If I can do that, I'd really like to and then come back and complete flight training at Mazzei or Falcon Aviation (or some other aviation school). It would be really nice to only pay for the expenses of getting all of my certificates, doing some flight instructor work to get up my hours, then start working at an airline and pay back a much smaller loan than going to a US-based university would create.

[Doug Taylor]

The degree field doesn't matter in the airline's eyes.

However, I suggest a degree in a subject which could serve as a 'plan b'.

[DE727UPS]

"but the type of degree isn't really all that important. How true is this?"

Very true, you are checkin' a square on an application.

"Also, how do airlines generally take foreign degrees?"

Holy cow, man. I don't know. Not sure that's been asked before.

[LuckyBambu]

That's cool. This is a very flexible career college-wise.

Naturally I plan on getting a degree in something that could serve as a "Plan B", but also something I enjoy. Not quite sure what it will be yet, as I do enjoy many things that would make a great backup, but I'm sure in the next couple years, I'll think of something.

Thanks for your help Doug. If anyone has anything more to add, feel free!

[Doug Taylor]

I think it might be best to ask the school what the equivalent US degree would be.

I'm not even sure where to start with that!

But the airlines that require degrees are generally looking for four year degrees from accredited institutions. There may be some type of conversion or depending on curriculum, it may translate, I don't really know.

DE727UPS hit the nail on the head. With the airlines you're more or less 'checking the box'. This trip I'm flying with a business major, the one previous was an electrical engineer and one of my really good pals who is a LAX 767 captain and former F/A-18 pilot was a Forrestry major.

Oh! And there was a guy I talked to in the lounge today who was an "Animal Sciences" major at some University in Utah.

[viper548]

Like everyone else said, the question on the application is a yes or no question to having a degree. I'd recommend a degree in something outside of aviation that you enjoy but could also serve as a plan B. That being said, my degree is in aviation but any degree is better than no degree.

[viper548]

As for a foreign degree, I don't know how the airlines feel about it. If I were an interviewer I'd be interested in your experience and I'd see it as a positive thing.

[Aero_Engineer]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

The degree field doesn't matter in the airline's eyes.

However, I suggest a degree in a subject which could serve as a 'plan b'.

Doug is righ!!

It is just the maturity and knowledge that you gain from getting a degree that they are looking for. This serves to haver better critical thinking especially in a sensitive job such as this.

Get a degree that you can fall back on or even make a second career out of, although there is nothing wrong with aviation but there is pretty much nothing you can do except work in the avaition industry and as we have all learned this is not the most stable of all industries.

[AngelFuree]

Yeah...I kinda wish I wouldn't had majored in an aviation degree. To this day, however, I'm not sure what other major I could have taken. Something in business might have been ideal, I'm thinking.

[slushie]

My plan B is looking more and more like plan A all the time.
But since I love A so much it will be more like Plan BA

[seagull]

OK, and now I'm going to AGAIN come back and say to all of those that continually say you should have a degree on something outside aviation to "fall back on", that's a load of horse poop!

UNLESS you were to get a job in a specific field just after getting that degree (and MOST undergrad degrees would not allow that anyway!!!), that advice is naive at best. I was talking about this subject with TGrayson the other day, and mentioned that I thought the POSSIBLE exceptions to what I just said were were something like an engineering degree. He replied that as a person with an engineering degree, that was not true either, as few employers would be interested in someone who had been out of school for several years.

Bottom line, get a degree in anything. If aviation doesn't work out, go back and get the Masters in something that will actually get you hired. The aviation degree offered by most of the accredited colleges will allow you to get a Masters in most fields.

Again, to think for a second that getting an undergrad in business, history, philosophy or even law is actually worth something more than most aviation degrees to most companies is naive at best!

[MDPilot]

Seagull (or tgrayson for that matter), Just wondering if you have ever been furloughed (or lost your medical, or anything like that) and actually needed to try and use your "backup" degree to secure a job?

Originally Posted by seagull

OK, and now I'm going to AGAIN come back and say to all of those that continually say you should have a degree on something outside aviation to "fall back on", that's a load of horse poop!

UNLESS you were to get a job in a specific field just after getting that degree (and MOST undergrad degrees would not allow that anyway!!!), that advice is naive at best. I was talking about this subject with TGrayson the other day, and mentioned that I thought the POSSIBLE exceptions to what I just said were were something like an engineering degree. He replied that as a person with an engineering degree, that was not true either, as few employers would be interested in someone who had been out of school for several years.

Bottom line, get a degree in anything. If aviation doesn't work out, go back and get the Masters in something that will actually get you hired. The aviation degree offered by most of the accredited colleges will allow you to get a Masters in most fields.

Again, to think for a second that getting an undergrad in business, history, philosophy or even law is actually worth something more than most aviation degrees to most companies is naive at best!

[seagull]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

Seagull (or tgrayson for that matter), Just wondering if you have ever been furloughed (or lost your medical, or anything like that) and actually needed to try and use your "backup" degree to secure a job?

No for me, and tgrayson doesn't work in the aviation field, but is very familiar with what is required in the engineering fields for getting a job. However, I am basing it on knowledge of what friends have gone through. Additionally, the fact that very, very few people actually work in the fields of their degree anyway (stats readily available via google). The bottom line is that an undergrad degree is not worth a heck of a lot, most companies don't care unless it is very specialized. An accounting degree with a CPA is, maybe, worthwhile, but how is someone going to get a job with a degree in history? When people say "something you can fall back on", what degrees do you have in mind, specifically?

If I were in that position, I wouldn't be looking to leave aviation, per se, anyway. I'd be thinking a number of the non-flying positions within aviation.

The main point is not that a non-aviation degree is bad to have at all, just that it is not necessarily more useful in procuring a non-aviation job than an aviation degree is.

The secondary part of this is that IF a person can get an aviation degree in a shorter period of time, and, through that, become qualified for getting on with an airline sooner, that person will have a HUGE advantage in terms of career earnings, furlough protection, etc. Even if it were true that you could use your non-aviation degree is a "backup plan", that would be little consolation when you have to do it, while the aviation degree guy is happily flying and avoiding the furlough due to getting hired a year or two sooner. This doesn't even count the possibility of networking potential with the classmates aviation schools.

None of this is meant to endorse the flight programs at those schools, incidentally, which seem to be way overpriced. I would advocate getting the degree there, but the ratings at a local part 61 school in the area, if possible.

Tgrayson also made the point that even most engineering jobs require OJT, with the degree as a starting point, and most would be hestitant to train a furloughed pilot who would probably leave to go back to flying at the first opportunity.

[Aero_Engineer]

Originally Posted by seagull

No for me, and tgrayson doesn't work in the aviation field, but is very familiar with what is required in the engineering fields for getting a job. However, I am basing it on knowledge of what friends have gone through. Additionally, the fact that very, very few people actually work in the fields of their degree anyway (stats readily available via google). The bottom line is that an undergrad degree is not worth a heck of a lot, most companies don't care unless it is very specialized. An accounting degree with a CPA is, maybe, worthwhile, but how is someone going to get a job with a degree in history? When people say "something you can fall back on", what degrees do you have in mind, specifically?

If I were in that position, I wouldn't be looking to leave aviation, per se, anyway. I'd be thinking a number of the non-flying positions within aviation.

The main point is not that a non-aviation degree is bad to have at all, just that it is not necessarily more useful in procuring a non-aviation job than an aviation degree is.

The secondary part of this is that IF a person can get an aviation degree in a shorter period of time, and, through that, become qualified for getting on with an airline sooner, that person will have a HUGE advantage in terms of career earnings, furlough protection, etc. Even if it were true that you could use your non-aviation degree is a "backup plan", that would be little consolation when you have to do it, while the aviation degree guy is happily flying and avoiding the furlough due to getting hired a year or two sooner. This doesn't even count the possibility of networking potential with the classmates aviation schools.

None of this is meant to endorse the flight programs at those schools, incidentally, which seem to be way overpriced. I would advocate getting the degree there, but the ratings at a local part 61 school in the area, if possible.

Tgrayson also made the point that even most engineering jobs require OJT, with the degree as a starting point, and most would be hestitant to train a furloughed pilot who would probably leave to go back to flying at the first opportunity.

You should also remember that when the industry goes down, it is not just the pilots that loose their jobs. So when something takes a nose dive, your avaiation degree goes along with it since it is not worth anything at that moment.

Unless you know some sort of craft that will help you survive an aviation degree in a situation like this won't.

Beside working in the aviation industry name one thing you can do with an aeronautical science degree?

It is good to have a non industry related back up, as I have mentioned before too you can just make a second career out of it even while you are a pilot, that should help you save up more for the rainy days.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by Aero_Engineer

You should also remember that when the industry goes down, it is not just the pilots that loose their jobs. So when something takes a nose dive, your avaiation degree goes along with it since it is not worth anything at that moment.

Unless you know some sort of craft that will help you survive an aviation degree in a situation like this won't.

Beside working in the aviation industry name one thing you can do with an aeronautical science degree?

It is good to have a non industry related back up, as I have mentioned before too you can just make a second career out of it even while you are a pilot, that should help you save up more for the rainy days.

First, your assumption that other areas of aviation go down also is just not accurate. Other jobs in the airlines, a very qualified "maybe", but that is as far as I'd agree with you.

Second, why don't you tell me what your "non industry related backup" consists of? It's easy to take shots at the aviation degree. Tell me what degree, with an undergrad only and no related work experience, will net you a job?

[DE727UPS]

"None of this is meant to endorse the flight programs at those schools, incidentally, which seem to be way overpriced. I would advocate getting the degree there, but the ratings at a local part 61 school in the area, if possible"

So, go to Riddle, get an aviation degree, but don't fly there? Go to UND, get a degree in aviation, but don't fly there?

I don't think that's possible unless you are getting a non-flight related degree. The traditional, flight related, aviation degrees require you do most of the flying on campus as a way to suck more money out of you. And yes, I agree it's overpriced.

Then, one might say, "go to Riddle but get a degree in business or management". I don't see how that's different than a degree in business or management as any four year school and flying at the local FBO.

[DAnbert]

Broadcast engineering. BSEE. Marketing.
All of these have relatively decent paying jobs that start at entry level.
This is based on personal knowledge of several people in those areas that currently are looking for people with little or no experience.
In a lot of companies, they like to train you in their way so you are more apt to follow their procedures. Need me to list some companies?
Xerox, Mentor Graphics, Entercom Communications...

[seagull]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"None of this is meant to endorse the flight programs at those schools, incidentally, which seem to be way overpriced. I would advocate getting the degree there, but the ratings at a local part 61 school in the area, if possible"

So, go to Riddle, get an aviation degree, but don't fly there? Go to UND, get a degree in aviation, but don't fly there?

I don't think that's possible unless you are getting a non-flight related degree. The traditional, flight related, aviation degrees require you do most of the flying on campus as a way to suck more money out of you. And yes, I agree it's overpriced.

Then, one might say, "go to Riddle but get a degree in business or management". I don't see how that's different than a degree in business or management as any four year school and flying at the local FBO.

Not if you use their extended campus or distance learning programs, and perhaps there are other ways to do it as well.

[Aero_Engineer]

Originally Posted by seagull

First, your assumption that other areas of aviation go down also is just not accurate. Other jobs in the airlines, a very qualified "maybe", but that is as far as I'd agree with you.

Second, why don't you tell me what your "non industry related backup" consists of? It's easy to take shots at the aviation degree. Tell me what degree, with an undergrad only and no related work experience, will net you a job?

My degree is Aerospace Engineering, there is such a huge shortage for us that an entry level job here in SoCal with the Edwards air force base pays 70000 a year.
I don't wanna do that beacuse I wanna be a pilot, second to that is the fact that I am getting my credentials in teaching so not only as a back up but also as a second job i am going to pursue substitute teaching.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by Aero_Engineer

My degree is Aerospace Engineering, there is such a huge shortage for us that an entry level job here in SoCal with the Edwards air force base pays 70000 a year.
I don't wanna do that beacuse I wanna be a pilot, second to that is the fact that I am getting my credentials in teaching so not only as a back up but also as a second job i am going to pursue substitute teaching.

Yes, you can get a degree now. How about 10 years from now, with zero work in an engineering related occupation? Anybody with a bachelors could go out and get a sub teaching job within a year. Plan on a few months unemployment, but with furlough pay and using up sick leave, etc., probably not going to be that long.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

I don't think that's possible unless you are getting a non-flight related degree.

I believe you are incorrect.

http://www.erau.edu/db/degrees/b-aerospacestudies.html

I agree with seagull on this, my father majored in history, didn't even do very well, and now negotiates contracts in the IT industry. Totally unrelated. It was his work experience in the Air Force that got him his jobs, not his degree.

That being said, I would still avoid a degree in aviation. If I were to do it over again I would probably do something more slanted toward business, possibly something in accounting or management.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by seagull

He replied that as a person with an engineering degree, that was not true either, as few employers would be interested in someone who had been out of school for several years.

I'd say it'd be a hard sell. An engineering undergraduate degree confers the knowledge to learn the skills needed to do the job, but an engineer still walks into his first job with few job-related skills. An employer typically hires him as an investment for the future. I certainly have a difficult time imagining someone furloughed for 6 months finding work as an engineer during that time-period, without lying about long-term goals.

My personal experience with career changers is that they take the first opportunity that arises to go back into their previous career. They don't like being ignorant in a new field and they don't like the low pay. I expect that any seasoned employer has had the same experience. Still, if the furloughed pilot is relatively young and can convince an employer that's he dumped aviation for good, then he might be better off with a technical degree.

I do have a hard time believing, though, that anyone who wants to fly for a living would be happy behind a computer screen all day.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

I'd say it'd be a hard sell. An engineering undergraduate degree confers the knowledge to learn the skills needed to do the job, but an engineer still walks into his first job with few job-related skills. An employer typically hires him as an investment for the future. I certainly have a difficult time imagining someone furloughed for 6 months finding work as an engineer during that time-period, without lying about long-term goals.

If they have spent any time doing Engineering, and have stayed somewhat up on it, they might be able to get a contracted position fairly easily. They have to have done some Engineering in the past, though, not just get the degree and then go and only fly.

My personal experience with career changers is that they take the first opportunity that arises to go back into their previous career. They don't like being ignorant in a new field and they don't like the low pay. I expect that any seasoned employer has had the same experience. Still, if the furloughed pilot is relatively young and can convince an employer that's he dumped aviation for good, then he might be better off with a technical degree.

I do have a hard time believing, though, that anyone who wants to fly for a living would be happy behind a computer screen all day.

I hope this inst going to be true for me.

[DAnbert]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

I do have a hard time believing, though, that anyone who wants to fly for a living would be happy behind a computer screen all day.

Oh the truth that this one speaks...
Said from behind my 9-5 computer

[DE727UPS]

"Not if you use their extended campus or distance learning programs, and perhaps there are other ways to do it as well"

I'll grant you that. Wasn't thinking off campus.

Wheels. Aero Studies has many area's of concentration. Those that don't require on campus flying? Well, obviously, you could fly anywhere you want if your degree doesn't require on campus flying. After looking at the catalouge. It appears off campus flight training has to be "pre-approved" and you have to take one flight course at Riddle to graduate. How many have success with having Riddle pre-approving flight training at a local FBO? I'd guess it's kinda rare....