How important is your degree?

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

If they have spent any time doing Engineering, and have stayed somewhat up on it, they might be able to get a contracted position fairly easily. They have to have done some Engineering in the past, though, not just get the degree and then go and only fly.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

I hope this inst going to be true for me.

Who can say? It's just a general observation and there are always lots of exceptions. You'll probably know pretty quickly.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

So, go to Riddle, get an aviation degree, but don't fly there? Go to UND, get a degree in aviation, but don't fly there?

There are several universities that WILL allow you to do this!

[adreamer]

MTSU?

[DE727UPS]

"There are several universities that WILL allow you to do this!"

Name a few that have their own fleets but still allow you to fly at the local FBO and come away with a aviation degree with a flight area of concentration. In other words, they give you the option of training in their fleet or flying at the local FBO.

I know Metro State in Denver allows you to use an FBO but they don't have their own fleet.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"There are several universities that WILL allow you to do this!"

Name a few that have their own fleets but still allow you to fly at the local FBO and come away with a aviation degree with a flight area of concentration. In other words, they give you the option of training in their fleet or flying at the local FBO.

I know Metro State in Denver allows you to use an FBO but they don't have their own fleet.

Strong argument for choosing one that does NOT have their own fleet. Does San Jose State still do that? Cal State LA? SIU, (I think?). Maybe not the "big names" in aviation degrees, but worth investigating.

[LuckyBambu]

Those of you who were wondering about how accredited these universities are, it's pretty impressive.

In terms of education, University of Tokyo comes in at number 19 compared to Harvard's number 1. Essentially you can get degrees in the same things at the same education level and gain the experience of a foreign country. I personally think it might be more impressive on a resume if you go to top universities in other countries and get degrees there (Because you're essentially learning your major, your minor, the language of the country, and the culture all at the same time), but that's just me.

Osaka, Kyoto, and Tokyo Universities are all top 3 in Japan and offer the same sort of degrees.

As for a degree being sort of a failover, I personally think it's a good idea. I can always go back and get my master's (for free still) if aviation falls through. I'm not entirely sure what I want to get a degree in, but preferably it would be something that I could do hands-on. I'd like to get a degree in something that would be useful after I turn 60 as well, because I'd like to do something that I could share my life experiences with after I retire from aviation. Education or something would be pretty cool to do. I'm not entirely decided yet though.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Wheels. Aero Studies has many area's of concentration. Those that don't require on campus flying? Well, obviously, you could fly anywhere you want if your degree doesn't require on campus flying. After looking at the catalouge. It appears off campus flight training has to be "pre-approved" and you have to take one flight course at Riddle to graduate. How many have success with having Riddle pre-approving flight training at a local FBO? I'd guess it's kinda rare....

You asked if there was a flight-related degree that didn't require on campus flying. Yes it can have many minors - ATC, weather, etc. That is the point of the AeroScience degree. Still related to flying.

FWIW I have several friends who switched from Aeronautical Science to AeroStudies to fly off campus, but were still doing their degree on campus (not extended). No need to pre-approve from what I gathered. I believe what you are refering to as far as getting pre-approved and taking one course on campus would either be (1) in my first year there, there was a backup of flight training and people were getting upset, so ERAU allowed those who complained to go off campus and (2) taking one fight course on campus applied to those that entered with ALL of their ratings. A buddy of mine had to retake a commercial-multi course to qualify for the degree. But those two instances only apply to those doing Aeronautical Science, not studies I think, but don't quote me on it. The whole idea of doing Aerostudies is so you do not have to fly on campus to finish your degree.

[TheWife]

When people say "something you can fall back on", what degrees do you have in mind, specifically?

Computer Programming, Graphic Arts, Engineering, Marketing, Pharmacy Technician, Business Management....

My husband's 4 year Aviation Science degree is pretty much worthless, other than the box he will someday check for the airline. In the mean time, he can't get a job that pays what someone w/ a 4 year degree SHOULD be paid, because his degree is useless. You all are looking at having a "plan B" degree as something to fall back on if you lose your medical, get furloughed, etc. Don't forget, your plan B may have to be put in to play before you even get to plan A. If UVSC hadn't advised him so long ago to get the degree in the field he was aiming for, he might not have to be working 65 hours a week right now just to make what others make w/ useful degrees. I am 100% for a degree in a field that will make you enough money to survive off of for before, during, and after your aviation career. If we had known 10 years ago, he would have gotten a degree in something he was interested in, that he could use for a career while building hours, and as a side or PT job for the first sucky years of poverty pay at an airline, and also for just in case the aviation comes to a stop.

[CRoper]

Yup. I sit here at work completely regretting getting my degree at all.

If I had just done my ratings first and then worked on my degree while instructing and at a regional, I would be upgrading to captain right about now, instead of doing tech support.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to be doing what I consider to be a high school students job, more importantly earning what a high school student would earn, while I have a 4 year degree, a commercial pilots license and a CFI certificate that has never been used and is starting to get extremely stale.

At the very least had I done a degree outside of aviation, perhaps I would be able to get a more effective job for now, not just as a fall back.

[EatSleepFly]

Originally Posted by CRoper

Yup. I sit here at work completely regretting getting my degree at all.

Well, on the other hand, I sit here with just shy of 1000 turbine PIC, sometimes regretting not finishing school (although financially, I really had no choice). I haven't sent out any resumes or applied anywhere, but I can't imagine anyone great will be banging down my door to hire me whenever I do. I do plan to finish the degree eventually, and I don't even have much left to do, but I absolutely have to pay off some bills before I go piling on more. I don't think you're in as bad a situation as you think. At least you have the hard part done.

[emb145]

Originally Posted by Aero_Engineer

Doug is righ!!

It is just the maturity and knowledge that you gain from getting a degree that they are looking for. This serves to haver better critical thinking especially in a sensitive job such as this.

Get a degree that you can fall back on or even make a second career out of, although there is nothing wrong with aviation but there is pretty much nothing you can do except work in the avaition industry and as we have all learned this is not the most stable of all industries.

I am not picking on you as much as I am picking on the idea that a degree makes you a better thinker. How much thinking did it take for pilots with degrees, "better critical thinking" to take paycuts and lose pensions to keep their jobs?

[CRoper]

Originally Posted by EatSleepFly

I don't think you're in as bad a situation as you think. At least you have the hard part done.

Thanks, hopefully it is just a case of where it is always the darkest before the dawn. Still doesn't make it any easier though, hopefully I can look back and have a different attitude about it after a few years of actually working in the career I have invested so much in.

[DAnbert]

Take a pay cut or lose my job (make nothing cause they will hire some low time guy to take the job for less money cause they want to fly). I think I will go with unemployment cause I am thinking clearly.
Unfortunately you can't assume that they weren't using a good thought process when there is always someone out there with lower standards that wants your job. This is ultimately the problem in those situations.
The corporate my way or the highway ultimatum.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by emb145

I am not picking on you as much as I am picking on the idea that a degree makes you a better thinker.

I agree with your critique. Many people walk into a program that teaches them to think in a certain way, then abandon it immediately after completing their degree. That said, I do think it's *possible* that a degree can make you a better thinker, if you incorporate the lessons you learned into your everyday way of thinking. If you do, you're likely to annoy your friends and family.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by TheWife

Computer Programming, Graphic Arts, Engineering, Marketing, Pharmacy Technician, Business Management....

My husband's 4 year Aviation Science degree is pretty much worthless, other than the box he will someday check for the airline. In the mean time, he can't get a job that pays what someone w/ a 4 year degree SHOULD be paid, because his degree is useless. You all are looking at having a "plan B" degree as something to fall back on if you lose your medical, get furloughed, etc. Don't forget, your plan B may have to be put in to play before you even get to plan A. If UVSC hadn't advised him so long ago to get the degree in the field he was aiming for, he might not have to be working 65 hours a week right now just to make what others make w/ useful degrees. I am 100% for a degree in a field that will make you enough money to survive off of for before, during, and after your aviation career. If we had known 10 years ago, he would have gotten a degree in something he was interested in, that he could use for a career while building hours, and as a side or PT job for the first sucky years of poverty pay at an airline, and also for just in case the aviation comes to a stop.

However, if he is focused only on getting a flying job, then he shouldn't be looking for jobs outside of aviation. If he is having trouble, or changing his mind, it is not that big of a deal to go back and get a second undergrad or a masters degree on top of his aviation degree. Yes, another year or so in school, but the Masters (on top of the avation degree) WILL allow him to get jobs that someone with most undergrad degrees can't get, regardless of what their degree is in.

If, however, him getting that aviation degree allows him to get hired by his final airline job of choice just ONE class sooner, it might make a difference of over $500k over his lifetime, or more.

[Dugie8]

As to the question of what kind of degree to get to fall back on.

Information Technology (IT), not really computer science but more of the managment, design and use of database(s), networks, adminning those networks, etc.

This is something that can be done "virtually" (the job) and is not something that will take up a lot of time if you want to do it as a side job.

With the speeds of networks (fibre optics and such) getting to the point of transmitting gigabytes per second, managing information is going to be a high demand skill very soon.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by CRoper

Yup. I sit here at work completely regretting getting my degree at all.

If I had just done my ratings first and then worked on my degree while instructing and at a regional, I would be upgrading to captain right about now, instead of doing tech support.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to be doing what I consider to be a high school students job, more importantly earning what a high school student would earn, while I have a 4 year degree, a commercial pilots license and a CFI certificate that has never been used and is starting to get extremely stale.

At the very least had I done a degree outside of aviation, perhaps I would be able to get a more effective job for now, not just as a fall back.

One of the advantages of most of the aviation degrees is you can do just that, get your ratings and build time and the degree at the same time while chasing those jobs.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

As to the question of what kind of degree to get to fall back on.

Information Technology (IT), not really computer science but more of the managment, design and use of database(s), networks, adminning those networks, etc.

This is something that can be done "virtually" (the job) and is not something that will take up a lot of time if you want to do it as a side job.

With the speeds of networks (fibre optics and such) getting to the point of transmitting gigabytes per second, managing information is going to be a high demand skill very soon.

Let's see how Tgrayson responds to this one....

I will say that we've made some signicant progress. My goal was to get people off the inane notion that "anything outside of majoring in aviation" is the only smart thing to do. Nobody is still arguing that, and the entire issue is coming into better focus so when this question comes up again in a few months, more sensible answers might be forthcoming.

[B767]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

It appears off campus flight training has to be "pre-approved" and you have to take one flight course at Riddle to graduate. How many have success with having Riddle pre-approving flight training at a local FBO? I'd guess it's kinda rare....

I don't have any experience personally with this Don, but most people I know that want to fly at the local FBO just switch degree programs. Most people do it because they don't like the structure of Riddle, not because it is cheaper. The FBOs here in Prescott cost just as much as Riddle training does.

Although, one of my buddies is an exception as his parents own an FBO in San Fran and he was able to get a plane out here and lease it to the FBO. Now he does all his trainging in that plane and just pays for gas.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

As to the question of what kind of degree to get to fall back on.

Information Technology (IT), not really computer science but more of the managment, design and use of database(s), networks, adminning those networks, etc.

This is something that can be done "virtually" (the job) and is not something that will take up a lot of time if you want to do it as a side job.

With the speeds of networks (fibre optics and such) getting to the point of transmitting gigabytes per second, managing information is going to be a high demand skill very soon.

Those jobs are in China or India now...

Probably the safest job bets for the future are jobs that just cannot be outsourced overseas - mostly labor intensive jobs like construction etc.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by seagull

I will say that we've made some signicant progress. My goal was to get people off the inane notion that "anything outside of majoring in aviation" is the only smart thing to do. Nobody is still arguing that, and the entire issue is coming into better focus so when this question comes up again in a few months, more sensible answers might be forthcoming.

That must have been a nasty blow to the head you took.





Incidentally, I have some lovely ocean-front property in Kansas you might be interested in.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by Minnesota_Flyer

That must have been a nasty blow to the head you took.





Incidentally, I have some lovely ocean-front property in Kansas you might be interested in.

Yeah, hence the reason I added the "might" qualifier!

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Information Technology (IT), not really computer science but more of the managment, design and use of database(s), networks, adminning those networks, etc.
This is something that can be done "virtually" (the job) and is not something that will take up a lot of time if you want to do it as a side job.

Sometimes. I've only worked one place that had a database administrator working from home. Still, it was a full-time job for him. And he was on call. If a database server goes down at most companies, they expect an administrator to respond at any hour of the day, because they're losing large amounts of money.

I fullfill short-term contracts for a living and it's extremely rare when a company is willing to let you work off-site or only part-time. Even outside the hours at work, IT is a rapidly changing field. If you aren't reading and studying all the time, your skills fade rapidly. This kinda annoys me, because I'd rather be spending time studying aviation topics.

[CRoper]

Originally Posted by seagull

One of the advantages of most of the aviation degrees is you can do just that, get your ratings and build time and the degree at the same time while chasing those jobs.

That is true assuming that you can live on the income of a student. I guess I am not really regretting "having" my degree, I just wish I would have either gotten a different one, (outside of aviation) and more importantly I wish I had focused more on my flight training instead of the degree.

[emb145]

Originally Posted by DAnbert

Take a pay cut or lose my job (make nothing cause they will hire some low time guy to take the job for less money cause they want to fly). I think I will go with unemployment cause I am thinking clearly.
Unfortunately you can't assume that they weren't using a good thought process when there is always someone out there with lower standards that wants your job. This is ultimately the problem in those situations.
The corporate my way or the highway ultimatum.

Do you want to fly for a company who thinks that a good place to save money is on the two things that keep a work force happy? Pay and benefits. The company knows that without pilots it cannot operate. You said that you took lower pay so someone with less experience can't come in and do your job for even less money. What does that say for the people who chose to take the cuts and lost their pensions. That is like saying I will shoot myself in the leg so nobody else will shoot me in the leg. Either way you still got shot in the leg. Pilots want the industry to be held in the highest regards, yet they take pay cuts just to keep their jobs.

If college teaches people to think this way, then I certainly am better off having not completed a degree.