PCATD Question

[Murdoughnut]

Quick questions regarding personal computer aviation training devices...

1) It says it can be utilized for 10 hours of instrument time (with a CFII) - is this 10 hours off of the 40 hours of required actual or simulated instrument time for the instrument rating?

2) I'm conducting my training part 61 - can I utilize any of my PCATD time towards the flight experience required for the commercial rating, or is that only allowed under part 141?

Thanks!

[Murdoughnut]

Wow, I asked this on another board and no one there knew the answer either.

Anyone?

[bdhill1979]

My understanding, and this is just my understanding, is that it can be applied only toward the rating you are recieving training for; 10 hours towards the total of 40 sim instrument required for the IR under 61 for example. But it doesnt count for anything else.

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by bdhill1979

My understanding, and this is just my understanding, is that it can be applied only toward the rating you are recieving training for; 10 hours towards the total of 40 sim instrument required for the IR under 61 for example. But it doesnt count for anything else.

How does that work? Say I'm in the middle of my instrument training and I decide I just want to get a Commercial w/o and IR? If for some reason you wanted to do:

1. 10 hr. of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered
2. One cross-country flight of at least 2 hr. in a single-engine airplane in day-VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 NM from the original point of departure
3. One cross-country flight of at least 2 hr. in a single-engine airplane in night-VFR conditions, consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 100 NM from the original point of departure
   
   During your PPL it would most certainly, as it's understood to me, would go towards whatever rating you want.

[bdhill1979]

I was just using that the IR requirement as an example, but PCATD's do not count towards airplane time. The two CC requirements you mentioned have to be completed in an airplane. The 10 hours in a complex aircraft must be performed in a complex aircraft. Again this is just how it was explained to my by my CFII from my IR, I am not certain.

[DE727UPS]

10 hours in a normal PCATD counts towards the 40 hours for a Part 61 instrument rating. None counts towards the commercial, though, I think there is an extra fancy (expensive) one that came out that is approved for more. It might have only been for the IPC. You could do a google search to answer your own question, though.

[Ramsey]

Actually not for an IPC. The B-ATD will allow you to log your required approaches in order to stay IFR current (with a CFI) but the IPC has to done “In an aircraft that is appropriate to the aircraft category”.

[Murdoughnut]

Thanks for the help guys - I found a listing of devices approved for various requirements - the basic PCATD is only good for the 10 instrument hours (and the approaches) as you guys said. Here's the list ... http://www.flyelite.com/support/documents/faa.pdf

Thanks again!

[bdhill1979]

I have been reading through AC61.126 on PCATD's and it is saying:

However, the FAA has not authorized the use of PCATD's for conducting practical tests nor for accomplishing recency of experience requirements.

But this AC is from 1997, I cant find a more recent one though. I thought recency could be maintained on one.

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by Ramsey

Actually not for an IPC. The B-ATD will allow you to log your required approaches in order to stay IFR current (with a CFI) but the IPC has to done “In an aircraft that is appropriate to the aircraft category”.

Isn't one of the new regulation changes allows for PCATD or FTD to be used for IPC?

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by bdhill1979

I was just using that the IR requirement as an example, but PCATD's do not count towards airplane time. The two CC requirements you mentioned have to be completed in an airplane. The 10 hours in a complex aircraft must be performed in a complex aircraft. Again this is just how it was explained to my by my CFII from my IR, I am not certain.

I only meant that if you use the hours towards the requirements of the IR then the time would also count towards the requirements of the Commercial and ATP rating as well. I undertand that airplanes must be used for XC's. I only implied that during your PPL you could also knock out some prerequisites of the CPL as well if done appropriately. Flight experience is not rating specific. I don't think that explains my point to well but maybe it does.

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by BajtheJino

I only meant that if you use the hours towards the requirements of the IR then the time would also count towards the requirements of the Commercial and ATP rating as well. I undertand that airplanes must be used for XC's. I only implied that during your PPL you could also knock out some prerequisites of the CPL as well if done appropriately. Flight experience is not rating specific. I don't think that explains my point to well but maybe it does.

Flight time is flight time, it all counts. I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I was just saying that you cant use a PCATD for much other than the SIM instrument requirement for the IR.

[BajtheJino]

YES! I dont type too well sometimes.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Whoa. bdhill came closest.

We're talking PCATD here, not a "flight simulator" or a "flight training device." A PCATD is neither ot those. A PCATD falls under 61.4(c) which authorizes the FAA to approve devices other than simulators and FTDs. The PCATD is a different creature altogether.

For now (there are some changes in the new Part 61 NPRM), what a PCATD can be used for and what can be logged is the subject of AC 61-126 - Qualification And Approval Of Personal Computer-Based Aviation Training Devices. In general, they can be used to =partially substitute= for the requirements for a certificate or rating that can be done in a flight simulator or FTD.

But PCATD is obviously not flight time (not even simulator or FTD time is "flight time.") But, since it is neither a Simulator nor an FTD, PCATD time does not even count toward "pilot time."

And, as I recall, all AC 61-126 authorizes is the use of an PCTAD toward part of what FAR 61.65 allows to be done in a simulator or FTD toward the instrument rating. That is =all= it counts for for now.