Comair

[meritflyer]

Anyone have the skinny on Comair? (upgrade, contract talk, commuting, ect.)

Any Comair pilots, PM me.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Anyone have the skinny on Comair? (upgrade, contract talk, commuting, ect.)

Any Comair pilots, PM me.

Wanna fly for Delta, Comair *might* not be a good career move!

[meritflyer]

Is this about the whole Comair/Delta furlough thing?

Hmm... I kinda doubt it'd be a career ending move although I'd like to hear some DAL pilot thoughts on it.

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Is this about the whole Comair/Delta furlough thing?

Hmm... I kinda doubt it'd be a career ending move although I'd like to hear some DAL pilot thoughts on it.

Nah, you really wouldn't.

[amorris311]

from what i heard this weekend i would have to agree with mdpilot on this one.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Is this about the whole Comair/Delta furlough thing?

Hmm... I kinda doubt it'd be a career ending move although I'd like to hear some DAL pilot thoughts on it.

Career ending? No, definatley not. Chances of getting into Delta slim, chances of you being accepted by the majority of the pilot group at Delta - ZERO, but not career endning - there are other airlines out there other than Delta.

Jason

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by Jason

Career ending? No, definatley not. Chances of getting into Delta slim, chances of you being accepted by the majority of the pilot group at Delta - ZERO, but not career endning - there are other airlines out there other than Delta.

Jason

Did I miss something?

What did the Comair pilots do to DAL pilots?

[amorris311]

something to do with flowbacks if i am not mistaken. they said no go to dal pilots.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Jason

Career ending? No, definatley not. Chances of getting into Delta slim, chances of you being accepted by the majority of the pilot group at Delta - ZERO, but not career endning - there are other airlines out there other than Delta.

Jason

Jeez...

Sounds pretty crappy. I guess it'd suck to commute to a Comair base having to jumpseat or deadhead (or whatever else its called) on Delta. Do the DAL guys even allow it?

[Jason]

There's ALOT more to it than that.

Jason

[Jason]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Jeez...

Sounds pretty crappy.

They made their own beds....

[meritflyer]

Ouch!

I guess it'd be somewhat a bad idea to attend an interview then?

[MDPilot]

Here's how the COMAIR MEC Chairman looked at the plight of Delta furloughees.
He basicly wanted to use them as bargaining chips for further scope concessions.


TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATE: December 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Ouch!

I guess it'd be somewhat a bad idea to attend an interview then?

Relax, there is always Skywest and ASA. Those regionals are still in good standing with Delta pilots.

Oh, and SKYW has a Tucson, AZ & Salt Lake City base. Both close to home!

[BobDDuck]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to be that the DAL group is being rather close minded. I understand they got screwed, and I think it is actually pretty admirable that a pilot group even cares about their furloughed guys. In general it seems that the junior people get thrown under the bus again and again. However, I don't see how you can blacklist an entire airline because of something their MEC (and some line pilots) did 5 years ago. Sure, by all means, any pilot who was around then splatter with the brush (but even that seems sort of broad) but how can you honestly tell somebody who wasn't even there at the time "you should have known better then to go work at comair." In my current situation we have several (ok, many) furloughed guys from the mainline carrier that owns us. There are a FEW people here that make their life hell because they think that they are taking up seats that should belong to non furloughed pilots. These few happen to be very vocal and have managed to get the attention of the mainline MEC. That MEC has put out a notice that until this pilot group fixes it's relationship with the furloughed pilots here the mainline MEC won't even TALK to our MEC let alone work to better things for us here (flow through, unified scheduling etc). So, just because a few (and I really do mean a few) people here are out of control, the whole group gets slammed.

I don't pretend to know the whole story at CMR/DAL. I've read the stuff the CMR MEC put out and the RJDC guys are always spewing garbage to anybody who will listen, but it seems to be that the DAL group has taken a hyper sensitive stance and are willing to burn anybody even remotely related to CMR even if they had nothing to do with the issue.

[MDPilot]

Just call me Mr. hyper sensitive close minded then.


Merit, feel free to interview with whomever you want. Be careful how you pick your friends though.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to be that the DAL group is being rather close minded....but it seems to be that the DAL group has taken a hyper sensitive stance and are willing to burn anybody even remotely related to CMR even if they had nothing to do with the issue.

FWIW, my Company's policy is to require a new hire to resign their seniority. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it is their policy.

And I agree with bobdduck - some of these guys getting hired at Comair now were still in highschool when their MEC made this decision, have no clue as to what happened, yet DAL mainline is still holding a grudge? Wow - talk about a chip on your shoulder.

Two of the MEC's three points I think were admirable:

2) Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
3) Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

That being said, I do think it was pretty $#%@ed up that Comair wanted the DAL pilots to resign their seniority numbers. What should have happened is for them to welcome them, and use the good faith to try and negotiate points 2 and 3 above, which would've ended the DAL regional whipsaw.

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Anyone have the skinny on Comair? (upgrade, contract talk, commuting, ect.)

Any Comair pilots, PM me.

I don't think anybody really knows at this point. Within the next week or so we should be able to figure out if:
- Comair will be re-affirmed as the Delta Connection carrier of choice and rise and grow.
- Comair will be affirmed as a Delta Connection carrier with as good a chance of getting new business and retaining their current business as anybody else.
- Comair will be dismantled and their flying handed out to other carriers.
- Comair will be sold to somebody else, and then it's anybodies guess.

But I've been saying we'll know Comairs future "soon" for the past couple of months, and I've been wrong so far. I think one thing is for sure, they're no more stable and predictable a choice than any other regional carrier at the moment.

[LoadMasterC141]

I have to admit I was warned of the mind numbing politics in this industry right from the get go, but am just starting to feel the disdain for it.

From an outsider looking in, sometimes it all seems somewhat ridiculous at best. I could easily have been a Comair new hire in a year or so, never knowing of the contempt DAL pilots feel for their regional carrier because of previous affairs. So you would hate me and blacklist me for something I had nothing to do with, and is not even common knowledge? Come on people!

Asking DAL furloughees to "RESIGN" their seniority at DAL is rotten IMO and there was no real reason for it. Accepting furloughed DAL pilots as "Flowbacks", displacing CMR pilots would have been a different thing. That is the way I understood it at first. Knowing what I do now, CMR does not impress me as much as it once did. Again though, this stuff ain't common knowledge.

[Doug Taylor]

BobDDuck-

I wouldn't consider it hypersensitive at all.

Walk a couple blocks in a formerly furloughed pilot's moccasins. It'll give you a brand new perspective on the actions of CMR's union leadership.

MD was furloughed, send him a PM and pick his brain a little. He's a good southern "straight shooter" that's not going to pull your leg and doesn't use the word "synergy".

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

BobDDuck-

I wouldn't consider it hypersensitive at all.

Walk a couple blocks in a formerly furloughed pilot's moccasins. It'll give you a brand new perspective on the actions of CMR's union leadership.

MD was furloughed, send him a PM and pick his brain a little. He's a good southern "straight shooter" that's not going to pull your leg and doesn't use the word "synergy".

Dough - a question. What would the MEC have to do with hiring? Why wouldn't DAL management/union approach the people that do the hiring at Comair? Why have to go thru the Comair union to begin with?

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Dough - a question. What would the MEC have to do with hiring? Why wouldn't DAL management/union approach the people that do the hiring at Comair? Why have to go thru the Comair union to begin with?

I said I wasn't going to get into this.....





What the Delta MEC asked for was the support of the COMAIR MEC to simply request COMAIR management allow DAL furloughees to be hired without seniority resignment. COMAIR management might have said no, but at least the COMAIR pilots would have showed themselves to be sensitive to the DAL furloughee, and that was really what our MEC was requesting.

BTW, this is exactly what the ASA MEC did and ASA management agreed to let DAL furloughees apply without resigning seniority.

But, not only did the COMAIR MEC try to use the furloughees as a barganing chip, they also wrote a letter to COMAIR management (which I read but unfortunately did not get a copy of) that said, in essence, that forcing COMAIR Captains to fly with a DAL furloughee copilot would cause "safety of flight" and unrepairable CRM issues, so therefore the MEC could not support hiring of DAL furloughees.

As far as the general pilot population goes, I didn't see one resolution proposed, or any protest raised to this policy. The only turnaround occurred after DAL had been recalling pilots for about a year, the COMAIR MEC reversed their stance and supported the hiring of DAL furloughees, as if they needed the support at that point.

During the COMAIR strike, I and many others volunteered our time off to monitor local airport operations to ensure that Delta was not adding flights or increasing guage to try and subvert the strike. We voted for and paid the strike assessments to benefit COMAIR pilots out on strike. We were soon repaid in a fashion that totally surprised everyone.

Not long after the strike was over, the leadership of the COMAIR MEC (RJDC) filed suit against ALPA in a power grab attempt to dissolve mainline scope and try to force seniority integration. That lawsuit is still in litigation. Again, COMAIR pilots have not come out critizing their leaderships' actions.

I've had more than one COMAIR pilot in this timeframe sit on my aircraft's jumpseat, talking about their hire date at COMAIR being previous to mine at DAL, and they would be displacing me from my seat after the RJDC won the lawsuit and the seniority lists combined.

So pardon me if I don't have lots-o-love for the COMAIR pilot group. If you really want the truth, I hope DAL liquidates COMAIR and puts the entire pilot group out of work. I am not alone at DAL in any of these sentiments, particularly amongst past furloughees and first officers. Quite a number of Captains share these feelings too, even though their seniority insulated them from most of the COMAIR pilots' threats.

[LoadMasterC141]

It does all sound like wrongdoings were afoot from your recount, and I am glad I know about it now. Thanks for sharing and sorry if it brought up grudging memories.

[wheelsup]

MD,

Thanks for "getting into" it and for the recap - like Loadmaster said that info isn't really out there. Also I didn't know the RJDC was essentially Comair. I guess it sucks to be those guys hired there that don't know what their MEC did in the past.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

So pardon me if I don't have lots-o-love for the COMAIR pilot group. If you really want the truth, I hope DAL liquidates COMAIR and puts the entire pilot group out of work. I am not alone at DAL in any of these sentiments, particularly amongst past furloughees and first officers. Quite a number of Captains share these feelings too, even though their seniority insulated them from most of the COMAIR pilots' threats.

Wow!

That'd sure put a damper on a whole lot of families and peoples' jobs if Comair went down the crapper.