Comair

[dakovich]

i happen to be a new hire at Comair....and honestly, having only been here in training for the past 3 weeks i have never seen such a mess of an industry/workplace. sooooooooo much negativity, everyone hates each other, nobody is happy and it seems everyone is in some way pitted against each other. very very very strange to me. i don't know what has happened in the past here, who pissed who off or whatever, but from what some have posted it does sound very upsetting. but when you wish another pilot group out of existence, i gotta say i'm not with ya...in fact, its just another crap-ass attitude that seems to be very common with people in this career. now, don't get me wrong, i completely understand how upset ALL pilots are now-a-days. i just think forces beyond much of our control seem to want us all to hate each other. they want us fighting, they want us to pretty much do everything we can to crap on one another. i don't know, after only three weeks of this i can see why people are opting out of this career path entirely. its just one big mess, no one is working together....but you know what, i'm not going to quit. i'm going to stick with it, smile and if i run into you out on the line and you've let this career beat you down to the point where you wish me out of a job...i'll still smile, shake your hand and wish you a good day. no hard feelings, no hate from me. i love flying, but not so much that i'll let it ruin me...and if that starts to happen, i'm going to make the decision to leave what i love because its not worth being in that kind of situation. i'd rather be poor and happy than poor and miserable

[LoadMasterC141]

Awesome mature and positive attitude sir! Don't let 'em beat ya down.

[meritflyer]

I gotta agree with dakovich.

I really cant believe that one group of pilots would wish the other out of a job/life.

I also dont see how new hires working for Comair are to be held accountable for a MEC's decision that happened 5 years ago.

Just a thought.

[PilotJT]

Just use Comair for the hours...get up to 2500 hours and get yourself a Job with Net Jets or Flex Jet. That's my plan ....but plans change every day...so who knows.

[MDPilot]

Sorry, I'm not wishing on COMAIR pilots anything they didn't wish on me first. I tried to tell you that you really didn't want to know my thoughts on the subject.

BTW, who said I was miserable, I love flying. I just don't like COMAIR.

[PilotJT]

Originally Posted by dakovich

i happen to be a new hire at Comair....and honestly, having only been here in training for the past 3 weeks i have never seen such a mess of an industry/workplace. sooooooooo much negativity, everyone hates each other, nobody is happy and it seems everyone is in some way pitted against each other. very very very strange to me. i don't know what has happened in the past here, who pissed who off or whatever, but from what some have posted it does sound very upsetting. but when you wish another pilot group out of existence, i gotta say i'm not with ya...in fact, its just another crap-ass attitude that seems to be very common with people in this career. now, don't get me wrong, i completely understand how upset ALL pilots are now-a-days. i just think forces beyond much of our control seem to want us all to hate each other. they want us fighting, they want us to pretty much do everything we can to crap on one another. i don't know, after only three weeks of this i can see why people are opting out of this career path entirely. its just one big mess, no one is working together....but you know what, i'm not going to quit. i'm going to stick with it, smile and if i run into you out on the line and you've let this career beat you down to the point where you wish me out of a job...i'll still smile, shake your hand and wish you a good day. no hard feelings, no hate from me. i love flying, but not so much that i'll let it ruin me...and if that starts to happen, i'm going to make the decision to leave what i love because its not worth being in that kind of situation. i'd rather be poor and happy than poor and miserable

I agree with you 100% dakovich!! That's the only way to handle it. Right on man!, and keep lovin flying!

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

Sorry, I'm not wishing on COMAIR pilots anything they didn't wish on me first. I tried to tell you that you really didn't want to know my thoughts on the subject.

This doesnt represent the group as a whole. You know that.

Maybe the pilots were worried about their jobs too, just as the DAL guys were about finding jobs after being put on furlough.

Either way, I think its time to all get along.

Would you not like me if I were a Comair pilot?

See what I am getting at?

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

This doesnt represent the group as a whole. You know that.

You know less than you think. How many Delta pilots have you talked to on this subject?

[MQAAord]

It's really easy to preach until you've been there yourself.



Never say anything about someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. By then, you've got a mile on him, and you've got his shoes, so you can say anything you want.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

You know less than you think. How many Delta pilots have you talked to on this subject?

I meant pilots as a collective group. Not Comair vs. Delta.

I have a hard time believing that one group wants the other out of a job BUT you already made such a comment.

Not trying to argue, just looking at the situation.

[meritflyer]

Also, you didnt answer my question -

If I was a new Comair pilot, would you automatically not like me?

Just curious.

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Also, you didnt answer my question -

If I was a new Comair pilot, would you automatically not like me?

Just curious.

Automatically? No.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

And how long do the DAL pilots plan to hold this against Comair Pilots? Why don't you just blacklist the ones there during the time, and work on building a new relationship with the other pilots?

And where is that MEC now?

Just asking.

[meritflyer]

I guess I dont really understand how the pilots are to be blacklisted for the MEC's decision.

Did the pilots actually have a voice in the matter?

... just askin' too.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Eh, I don't see what the big deal is. If you want to work for Delta, don't be employed with Comair. But if you still want to fly in the DCI system work for Skywest or Skywest east (ASA!)

Easy as pie!

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I guess I dont really understand how the pilots are to be blacklisted for the MEC's decision.

Did the pilots actually have a voice in the matter?

... just askin' too.

Yeah, the pilots had a voice in the matter and that is why MD and other Delta guys are tarring the whole CMR pilot group. You're union is only as strong as you. I can easily understand how Delta pilots (and thanks for clarifying the situation MD) could hold a grudge against any VOTING pilot on CMR property at the time the MEC there did what they did. But that was back in 2003 I think and there have been a whole bunch of people hired then who had nothing to do with what happened.

In reality if any one pilot had stood up at the time (and there may very well have been) and said, "this is wrong" chances are nothing would have happened. It is VERY difficult to get enough support to remove a MEC. Where I am it took 4 years to remove a MEC that screwed over there own pilot group. Now think about trying to remove one that screwed over another pilot group. Unfortunately there are WAY too many pilots out there that only care about themselves.

EDIT: Max, it has nothing to do with wanting to be in the Delta system. I mean, that might have been the original question, but the post topic has moved on a bit.

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I guess I dont really understand how the pilots are to be blacklisted for the MEC's decision.

Did the pilots actually have a voice in the matter?

... just askin' too.

Who makes up an (any) MEC and how do they get there?

[meritflyer]

I am afraid that SKYW and ASA may have their own problems ahead.

Alot of talk about the two.

I think you may see a distaste for eachother come about in the future.

Tell a Skywest pilot that ASA is Skywest East and enjoy the reaction.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I guess I dont really understand how the pilots are to be blacklisted for the MEC's decision.

Did the pilots actually have a voice in the matter?

... just askin' too.

I think what MD is saying is that the MEC, who essentially speaks for the pilot group, wasn't being stopped.

I'm not sure how much info the pilot group actually had though, but Comair didn't even give their graces to helping DAL guys get on as FO's. I can see no flowbacks to CA slots, but as FO's at the bottom of the list?

But again, I'm not sure about 80% of the stuff that goes on at my carrier, and I'm on the communication committee. So my guess is most of the Comair guys didn't even know what their MEC (which is typically made up of the top 5% of the pilot group) was doing.

Sorry, repeated a lot of what was said above - I'm just a slow typer.

[MDPilot]

I apologize for the harshness of my comment about Comair being liquidated. I knew it was not the nicest thing in the world to say, and I knew it would generate a reaction. While I would not relish any individual being without a job, I abhor the Comair MEC and its attitudes and decisions over the last several years. Just as we get the government we deserve because we elect them, we also get union MEC leadership likewise.

I am bowing out of this topic (that I should have know better than to get into) and will have no further comments on this subject.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Tell a Skywest pilot that ASA is Skywest East and enjoy the reaction.

Trust me, not a lot of ASA pilots like the term either, but they realize that is what it is and that there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

I have a horrible taste in my mouth when it comes to Skywest, they can not be trusted.

I also have a slight feeling that some Skywest pilots may actually enjoy the current (no contract) and ultimate fate (ASA fully absorbed into Skywest - flying under the Skywest banner) of ASA. Now that to me, is sick - sick because once again I am seeing a great southern based airline being eaten alive by big papa. - Just my opinion - perhaps the future will prove me wrong. I'm not holding my breath.

What in the world am I doing . . . I'm glad I'm still somewhat young

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

I apologize for the harshness of my comment about Comair being liquidated. I knew it was not the nicest thing in the world to say, and I knew it would generate a reaction. While I would not relish any individual being without a job, I abhor the Comair MEC and its attitudes and decisions over the last several years. Just as we get the government we deserve because we elect them, we also get union MEC leadership likewise.

I am bowing out of this topic (that I should have know better than to get into) and will have no further comments on this subject.

I don't think you were harsh at all. The Comair MEC is scum. What you had here was a fellow pilot group, the Delta pilot group, that was beaten on the floor with their teeth kicked in. The Comair MEC, THAT REPRESENTED THE COMAIR PILOT GROUP decided to GAIN from the Delta's guys and gals misfortunes for their own gain.

Where is the professionalism in this? Where was the pay it forwardness of the leaders of the Comair pilot group? The Comair pilots as a whole creamed their pants when they saw their MEC go after Delta's 737 flying when the Delta pilots were out on the street and worrying about putting food on the table. Remember this is AFTER the Delta pilots supported Comair pilots with their strike.

Sorry guys, but the way Delta pilots feel about Comair pilots is MORE than valid. We make decisions on what companies we go to, we are put into a group based on the company we chose to recieve our paycheck from. This is the way this game is played, if you don't like it get out.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Sorry guys, but the way Delta pilots feel about Comair pilots is MORE than valid. We make decisions on what companies we go to, we are put into a group based on the company we chose to recieve our paycheck from. This is the way this game is played, if you don't like it get out.

Comair MEC? Sure. Pilots hired on property after that? Hmm, not so much IMO, but it's their prerogative to hold a grudge if they want to.

As far as the MEC representing the pilot group - see BobDDucks post on that. It took 4 years to remove the MEC at PSA that forked over the pilot group there. The MEC generally represents the interests of the top of the seniority list.

Another example - when my Company got pay raises, the senior guys got a huge percentage increase. When it came time for pay cuts, guess who got the least reduction in terms of percentage? The top guys. Guess who got the most reduction in percentage? The low and mid level longevity guys. Hmm..

[Doug Taylor]

Folks, you asked.

MD volunteered a straightforward answer "from the trenches" and you have to show MDPilot some luv for his taking the time to bring his perspective to an issue that's been on slow simmer for years.

Most guys, including myself sadly, would have said, "I'm not even touching this one because I don't want to spend the next week repeating myself to people that aren't going to get it". Hell, even I do a little 'soft shoe' when someone brings up the topic because it's difficult to accurately paint a picture of the genesis of the situation and the subsequent 'trial by forum' can be dizzying.

I'll try and get a copy of the "CRM" memo.

In terms of history, try carrying around the stigma of being a former Eastern pilot! Usually, it's "I flew herkies, and then I went on to Eastern BUT I'M NOT A SCAB! I left about six months previous to the strike because they were already shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.. etc etc etc"

Don't blindly jump at low mins and a shiney regional jet, do some research. Ya'll know what that dude on the GI Joe cartoon said about knowing being "half the battle".

[moocowtex]

I find it awfully hard not to launch into a rant when the Comair MEC gets mentioned. I'd better stop typing now.