Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock....

I_Money · February 9th, 2007, 18:18

Have you guys ever flown any horses? Was there any special previsions made for your living cargo? I know they keep the back cold, but apart from that do you guys just fly normally. Are the grooms in contact with you? Did you carry a vet?

Just interested.............

DE727UPS · February 9th, 2007, 18:20

UPS doesn't fly any living cargo. I know Kalitta does, and some of the subcontractors.

seagull · February 9th, 2007, 18:34

Yes, I've flown with horses, cows, pigs, zoo animals of several types, baby chicks, dogs, woodchucks, etc. etc. FedEx does a big business with animal charters and we also carry the live animals that are shipped via the USPS.

Race horses are very high dollar, obviously. We are very careful in terms of pitch angles, sudden changes, very careful with ground ops, anything we can do and stay safe and help keep the animals from being injured.

SierraPilot123 · February 9th, 2007, 18:38

Do they put them in large crates? How do they secure the horses?

DE727UPS · February 9th, 2007, 19:14

Actually, UPS has done a couple of charter flights that were more for PR than anything else. I think we flew that famous whale somewhere and some apes another time. I forget. Never heard of horses.

bLizZuE · February 9th, 2007, 19:16

operation dumbo drop comes to mind...

amorris311 · February 9th, 2007, 19:33

when i was leaving lax in mid january i saw about a dozen horses being driven in their air stables. it seems like they dont have much room to move which would be a good thing. i think i saw a documentary on fedex and their live animal ops a few years back. if i can find it i will give you the name. if i recall correctly it was a pretty interesting film.

Gonzo · February 9th, 2007, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Actually, UPS has done a couple of charter flights that were more for PR than anything else. I think we flew that famous whale somewhere and some apes another time. I forget. Never heard of horses.

It was the two whale sharks (Ralph and Norton) for the Georgia aquarium.

In the pandas for zoo Atlanta.

KLB · February 9th, 2007, 20:47

Does laboratory mice count? I carried those a couple of times.

nwpac · February 9th, 2007, 21:11

What happens when they get loose and run to the front of the plane?

seagull · February 9th, 2007, 22:00

Looks like the question on containers has been answered. Yes, very tight. They can kick the sides, though, which is noticeable. We also carry up to 19 attendants for the high value ones. We also have done the seaworld and exotics. It's a regular part of our biz, although we do some high profile publicity ones as well, obviously.

We have the legacy and experience from Flying Tigers, who, I believe, actually was the first to do this kind of thing.

I_Money · February 10th, 2007, 01:08

As someone stated horses travel in small stables, they are quite narrow, giving the horse enough room to rest it's legs but not enough to allow it to get into trouble. To them it is much like travelling via road in a trailer- especially if pilots do their job. Funny Seagull said up to 19 people travel with the horses, it is a very common method to move grooms, staff and friends around the world cheaply. Barbaro when going to the KY Derby, travelled with one person!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwpac

What happens when they get loose and run to the front of the plane?

It is very serious, as the threat of mice chewing important cables is very real. Lab animals are incredibly expensive too.

seagull · February 10th, 2007, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Money

As someone stated horses travel in small stables, they are quite narrow, giving the horse enough room to rest it's legs but not enough to allow it to get into trouble. To them it is much like travelling via road in a trailer- especially if pilots do their job. Funny Seagull said up to 19 people travel with the horses, it is a very common method to move grooms, staff and friends around the world cheaply. Barbaro when going to the KY Derby, travelled with one person!

It is very serious, as the threat of mice chewing important cables is very real. Lab animals are incredibly expensive too.

I do not believe they are moving the handlers for cheap, but I do not know what the charges are. I think you're forgetting how many animals we can carry. We will often have 50 horses or more. On the MD11 I have carried 180 pregnant cows, to give you some idea. The horse charters I have flown are not as big numbers, but they may be more limited by the max of 19 handlers than anything else. For the cattle we usually only have two or three handlers.

fly4food84 · February 10th, 2007, 09:12

FedEx flew penguins to New Orleans after the hurricane to replace the ones that died in the aquarium.

ClearedForOption · February 10th, 2007, 17:46

I think someone already memtioned the palletized horse stalls... so I won't go into that. (Basically a special horse stall, on an 88 x 96" ULD, same conditions as when doing truck transport basically)

While a Load @ Southern Air we had horses occasionally. Our procedure was to load them 2nd to last... they would ride just fwd (or aft) of the cargo door. The closing of the door would make them freak out occasioanlly so you didn't want to put them right there. You normally kept the horse on the ground till the last minute and lift it up and lock it into place right before closing the door 5 min before pushback.

There was one time... It was in MIA I think... where there was a MX delay and a horse overheated in the plane and had a heart attack and died. (not my flight, thank god) The lesson learned was if there is going to be a delay in the summer in Florida, open up the plane and get the stall out of the plane.

Anytime we had a handler I would ask them to stay as far away from me as possible and to "monitor" the horse during cruise flight. If I got within 5 ft. of the handler and 30 ft. of the horse I would start sneezing like crazy. It always drove my allergies to the limit when we had any kind of live animal.

We also did goats, cows, and other exotics. I remember that after the cows (also not my flight) that the A/C smelled like a barn for a month. (and was told that somehow "cowpies" got all over the tracks) The goats were mine... and i remember another situation, can't remember the animal type, but I do remember that they screamed all the way to China. (I think that they alternated for the whole 17 hours - I could hear them from the Upper Deck)

There's a whole IATA guide for live animal transport.

mtsu_av8er · February 10th, 2007, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by amorris311

i think i saw a documentary on fedex and their live animal ops a few years back.

I believe you're refering to a piece called "The Secret World of Air Freight", or something similar. It was on Disocvery Wings a few times, was first shown on April 12th, 2002, and talked about some horses being delivered to Hokkaido. Japan. It also talked about race cars going to Australia, and wine being delivered from France.

They talked mostly about FEDEX, NWA Cargo, and . . . that may have been it!

Was that the one?

I'm trying to find some scoop on it.

TonyC · February 10th, 2007, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

I believe you're refering to a piece called "The Secret World of Air Freight", or something similar. It was on Disocvery Wings a few times, was first shown on April 12th, 2002, and talked about some horses being delivered to Hokkaido. Japan. It also talked about race cars going to Australia, and wine being delivered from France.

They talked mostly about FEDEX, NWA Cargo, and . . . that may have been it!

Was that the one?

I'm trying to find some scoop on it.

I've got a videotape of the program that someone sent me. I could dig it out if you need it.

Temperatures and ventilation -- those are the keys. That, and make sure your bags are covered in plastic, or you'll be smelling the animals in your clothes for weeks.

The saddest are the beagles going to the labs.

.

mtsu_av8er · February 10th, 2007, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

I've got a videotape of the program that someone sent me. I could dig it out if you need it.
.

I'd love a copy of that!

Actually, we need to have some barbecue!

TonyC · February 10th, 2007, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

I'd love a copy of that!

Actually, we need to have some barbecue!

I'll see what I can do. When ya stoppin' by?

.

I_Money · February 11th, 2007, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by seagull

I do not believe they are moving the handlers for cheap, but I do not know what the charges are.

When we shipped the polo ponies we were allowed one handler per 3 horses, we used to have a couple very capable handlers who used to care for the horses if they thought drinking was optional, some grooms would look after the horses, but also needed to get to the destination and it was killing 2 birds with one stone. But then there story of the of one of the guys friends, knew nothing about horses, was a hairdresser, and did not have enough money to get home from New Zealand - she caught a free ride with the horses.

180 pregnant cows?? That is a very expensive shipment - hopefully they were special.

TonyC · February 11th, 2007, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Money

180 pregnant cows?? That is a very expensive shipment - hopefully they were special.

It really gives the Japanese customs folks a fit when one births enroute. SSSSsssssss - Papah wok say one hundred eighty cows, no calf on paph wok - SSSSSsssssssss

.

mtsu_av8er · February 11th, 2007, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

When ya stoppin' by?.

I'll probably be out in the next month at least once . . . I'm anticipating upgrade training in the next month, and I'm bidding for a run that will bring me there daily for several hours every day. I'll definitely let you know!

PeanuckleCRJ · February 11th, 2007, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

It really gives the Japanese customs folks a fit when one births enroute. SSSSsssssss - Papah wok say one hundred eighty cows, no calf on paph wok - SSSSSsssssssss

.

Oh man... I can just hear that like the guy is standing next to me.

Was up front in a 744 when a Air-Evac callsign C-9 had an HF failure one time coming out of Mayjora. You would have thought the world had ended..

mrivc211 · February 11th, 2007, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

It really gives the Japanese customs folks a fit when one births enroute. SSSSsssssss - Papah wok say one hundred eighty cows, no calf on paph wok - SSSSSsssssssss

.

Hahahah

GJ1 · February 12th, 2007, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by amorris311

when i was leaving lax in mid january i saw about a dozen horses being driven in their air stables. it seems like they dont have much room to move which would be a good thing. i think i saw a documentary on fedex and their live animal ops a few years back. if i can find it i will give you the name. if i recall correctly it was a pretty interesting film.

Yeah, i remember watching something like that. They had to take some horses from Lousiville, ky to somewhere in Japan if thats the episode your talking about.

February 9th, 2007, 18:18	#1
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,691	Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... Have you guys ever flown any horses? Was there any special previsions made for your living cargo? I know they keep the back cold, but apart from that do you guys just fly normally. Are the grooms in contact with you? Did you carry a vet? Just interested.............

February 9th, 2007, 18:20	#2
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... UPS doesn't fly any living cargo. I know Kalitta does, and some of the subcontractors.

February 9th, 2007, 18:34	#3
seagull Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,045	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... Yes, I've flown with horses, cows, pigs, zoo animals of several types, baby chicks, dogs, woodchucks, etc. etc. FedEx does a big business with animal charters and we also carry the live animals that are shipped via the USPS. Race horses are very high dollar, obviously. We are very careful in terms of pitch angles, sudden changes, very careful with ground ops, anything we can do and stay safe and help keep the animals from being injured.

February 9th, 2007, 18:38	#4
SierraPilot123 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 396	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... Do they put them in large crates? How do they secure the horses?

February 9th, 2007, 19:14	#5
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... Actually, UPS has done a couple of charter flights that were more for PR than anything else. I think we flew that famous whale somewhere and some apes another time. I forget. Never heard of horses.

February 9th, 2007, 19:16	#6
bLizZuE Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Vero Beach, Florida Posts: 1,216	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... operation dumbo drop comes to mind... __________________ \| website \| CFI \| CFII \| MEI \| 141 Check Instructor \| AOPA Mentor Pilot

February 9th, 2007, 19:33	#7
amorris311 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles soon to be phx Posts: 2,633	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... when i was leaving lax in mid january i saw about a dozen horses being driven in their air stables. it seems like they dont have much room to move which would be a good thing. i think i saw a documentary on fedex and their live animal ops a few years back. if i can find it i will give you the name. if i recall correctly it was a pretty interesting film.

February 9th, 2007, 20:47	#9
KLB Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: DFW Posts: 3,003	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... Does laboratory mice count? I carried those a couple of times.

February 9th, 2007, 21:11	#10
nwpac Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 9	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... What happens when they get loose and run to the front of the plane?

February 9th, 2007, 22:00	#11
seagull Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,045	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... Looks like the question on containers has been answered. Yes, very tight. They can kick the sides, though, which is noticeable. We also carry up to 19 attendants for the high value ones. We also have done the seaworld and exotics. It's a regular part of our biz, although we do some high profile publicity ones as well, obviously. We have the legacy and experience from Flying Tigers, who, I believe, actually was the first to do this kind of thing.

February 10th, 2007, 09:12	#14
fly4food84 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Covington, Louisiana Posts: 100	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... FedEx flew penguins to New Orleans after the hurricane to replace the ones that died in the aquarium.

February 10th, 2007, 17:46	#15
ClearedForOption Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 217	Re: Seagull, A300Capt, DE727UPS - Flying With Livestock.... I think someone already memtioned the palletized horse stalls... so I won't go into that. (Basically a special horse stall, on an 88 x 96" ULD, same conditions as when doing truck transport basically) While a Load @ Southern Air we had horses occasionally. Our procedure was to load them 2nd to last... they would ride just fwd (or aft) of the cargo door. The closing of the door would make them freak out occasioanlly so you didn't want to put them right there. You normally kept the horse on the ground till the last minute and lift it up and lock it into place right before closing the door 5 min before pushback. There was one time... It was in MIA I think... where there was a MX delay and a horse overheated in the plane and had a heart attack and died. (not my flight, thank god) The lesson learned was if there is going to be a delay in the summer in Florida, open up the plane and get the stall out of the plane. Anytime we had a handler I would ask them to stay as far away from me as possible and to "monitor" the horse during cruise flight. If I got within 5 ft. of the handler and 30 ft. of the horse I would start sneezing like crazy. It always drove my allergies to the limit when we had any kind of live animal. We also did goats, cows, and other exotics. I remember that after the cows (also not my flight) that the A/C smelled like a barn for a month. (and was told that somehow "cowpies" got all over the tracks) The goats were mine... and i remember another situation, can't remember the animal type, but I do remember that they screamed all the way to China. (I think that they alternated for the whole 17 hours - I could hear them from the Upper Deck) There's a whole IATA guide for live animal transport. __________________ Richard J. Praser COMM SE/ME.CFI CL-65 & BE1900 SIC ~1700TT <----- My new Regional Pilot Uniform (Why would $ and QOL matter when people get to see me in the airport wearing this)

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