Skybus Airlines

[Champcar]

Anyone give this new start up a chance? Point to Point service out of Columbus using 319's seems far fetched. I think they are hiring pilots too, 65K salary.

[SeanD]

Is this the company using the old Independent Air 319s?

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by SeanD

Is this the company using the old Independent Air 319s?

Not sure. I did hear that the first 319's they secured are VirginAmerica's

[Callous]

Pay seems to start at 65K + 4,800 stock options.

[Minuteman]

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=34545 (New US airline "Skybus" orders 65 A319s)

Like I said in the other thread, something's not adding up. Their own website say's "New 150-seat jet aircraft," despite the small detail that the A319 is certified for only 145 passengers maximum.

I saw an ad the other day for some flight ops/management folks at "a midwest startup operation," so maybe its just a webpage that wasn't updated since they picked the short bus.

[dvtpilot]

Originally Posted by Minuteman

"New 150-seat jet aircraft," .

Maybe they just rounded up to keep it simple for the general public?

[Doug Taylor]

$65K to fly captain in an Airbus?

Surely they jest.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Minuteman

Like I said in the other thread, something's not adding up. Their own website say's "New 150-seat jet aircraft," despite the small detail that the A319 is certified for only 145 passengers maximum.

145 pax + 2 pilots + 3 FAs = 150 seats

It's called Fuzzy Math

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

$65K to fly captain in an Airbus?

Surely they jest.

But.... but.... they are giving everybody 4200 shares of stock. And it's an AIRBUS... I mean... it actually has engines under the wing.

[skydog]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

$65K to fly captain in an Airbus?

Surely they jest.

To some people, an airplane is an airplane. To some pilots 65K is a raise, especially if you are coming from a regional. What would you rather do? Make 30-35K flying a Beech or Metro in crappy weather with no autopilot and no flight attendant; or make twice that flying a modern jet aircraft above the weather, and be able to ring the call button and get a copy of coffee or bottle of water.

[taseal]

Originally Posted by skydog

To some people, an airplane is an airplane. To some pilots 65K is a raise, especially if you are coming from a regional. What would you rather do? Make 30-35K flying a Beech or Metro in crappy weather with no autopilot and no flight attendant; or make twice that flying a modern jet aircraft above the weather, and be able to ring the call button and get a copy of coffee or bottle of water.

but, but you are underpaid! never take an underpaid job! its a shame on this industry! instead, let someone else who is smarter then you take the job, and make 65 grand a year on a airbus while making some pretty hours on a purdy nice plane!

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by skydog

To some people, an airplane is an airplane. To some pilots 65K is a raise, especially if you are coming from a regional. What would you rather do? Make 30-35K flying a Beech or Metro in crappy weather with no autopilot and no flight attendant; or make twice that flying a modern jet aircraft above the weather, and be able to ring the call button and get a copy of coffee or bottle of water.

The industries race to the bottom nears terminal velocity.

I'll have to revisit the post later when I have more time to explain why this is a exceptionally dangerous way of looking at Skybus, but I've got a very full plate this morning.

[SpiraMirabilis]

If Skybus succeeds and is paying pilots 1/3 or less what they should really be paying then no new airline will ever pay more. Why would they?

What isn't clear is -- is the 65k just the first year pay? Assuming Continental ever had to hire a captain off the street they would only make 30k the first year. Does it go up? A lot?

[Doug Taylor]

Depends on how Skybus arranges their pay scales.

As long as there are a steady supply of people that think it's a great deal to fly a 150 seat aircraft for $65K/year, what's truly the point of a 10-year graduated pay scale?

Pay FO's $30K/year, captains $60K/year and leave everything at maximum allowable FAA limits (rest, duty, flight time) and voila!

[SpiraMirabilis]

On the plus side you get to fly an airplane with butterflies on it.

[Minuteman]

I did some research about Skybus and had a whole nice reply written up, but my crappy computer crapped-out. Lucky for you, you'll only have to read the summary:

• American version of Ryanair
• "Unique" Crew Scheduling system
• "Ancillary Revenues" (nickel-and-diming pax while decorating the aircraft with ads)
• No jetways (those cost money)

So here's a picture that sums up my anticipation of a typical Skybus passenger:

[SpiraMirabilis]

"Unique" huh?

[Minuteman]

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

"Unique" huh?

Yeah, that really wasn't fair of me. Here's a quote from their DOT proposal:

Successful European low-cost carriers Ryanair and Easyjet use a scheduling approach virtually unheard of in the U.S. market. Skybus has elected to use a similar concept that will dramatically improve the quality of life for crew members and also provide a system for effective and efficient aircraft scheduling.

They seem to be trying pretty hard to emulate Ryanair ... the same airline that prohibited employees from charging their mobile phones at work as a cost-savings measure. And refused to recognize the legitimacy of the IALPA when their pilots tried collective bargaining.

All of that is Ryanair, not Skybus, but they definitely admire them a lot in their application to the DOT.

How do APA and ALPA deal with a start-up that won't pay what are considered competitive wages. At that point it's not really struck work, is it?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by skydog

To some people, an airplane is an airplane. To some pilots 65K is a raise, especially if you are coming from a regional. What would you rather do? Make 30-35K flying a Beech or Metro in crappy weather with no autopilot and no flight attendant; or make twice that flying a modern jet aircraft above the weather, and be able to ring the call button and get a copy of coffee or bottle of water.

Oh boy. . . no wonder this industry keeps going down hill.

You're missing the point, and most importantly - the damage that this type of mindset generates for the industry.

To each their own. . . until it starts bothering my bottom dollar, and my families QOL.

[CapnJim]

Originally Posted by skydog

To some people, an airplane is an airplane. To some pilots 65K is a raise, especially if you are coming from a regional. What would you rather do? Make 30-35K flying a Beech or Metro in crappy weather with no autopilot and no flight attendant; or make twice that flying a modern jet aircraft above the weather, and be able to ring the call button and get a copy of coffee or bottle of water.

See? Who says low paying jobs lower the bar for the rest of the industry?

[CapnJim]

Here's Qualification Requirements:

You must indicate that you meet the requirements listed below by checking the corresponding items.

5000 Total time
1500 Turbine PIC
ATP
FAA Class 1 Medical Certificate
20/20 corrected vision
Required to show up on first day of work with a laptop computer with wireless internet connectivity and capable of reading a memory stick and CD-ROM
Legally authorized to work in the USA



Why would anyone apply to Southwest or Continental or Delta when you can have all that! In Ohio!

[OldTownPilot]

Dressing up to go to Wal-Mart. Give me a freaking break.

I took RyanAir from LGW-DUB. The plane was clean and the price was right ($30 taxes included), and if I was planning a multi stop Europe trip, I would probably buy a ticket on them again. I guess I was bringing down the lowering the European pilot bar by taking RyanAir.

[Soul Brotha']

Originally Posted by skydog

To some people, an airplane is an airplane. To some pilots 65K is a raise, especially if you are coming from a regional. What would you rather do? Make 30-35K flying a Beech or Metro in crappy weather with no autopilot and no flight attendant; or make twice that flying a modern jet aircraft above the weather, and be able to ring the call button and get a copy of coffee or bottle of water.

Man I hope you are not serious.

[skydog]

I am completely serious. A guy earning 30K a year to fly a Metro should turn down twice that to do an easier job? All other things being equal, why would anyone do that?

I understand why guys like Doug Taylor or DE727 (don't know his name) want me to turn it down. It undermines their big fat paychecks. No surprise there. The elites of the world have always advocated keeping the little man down because it strengthens the ground upon which they, the elites, stand. I understand their motivation. What I don't understand is why the little man so willingly goes along with it.

You say that 65K is not enough to fly an airplane. But then you turn around and tell me I should keep slogging away for half of that pay? Which is it?

[SpiraMirabilis]

Are you on drugs? Are you a troll?
You seem to be implying that someone flying a A319 has an easier job than someone flying an old Metroliner. I'm not convinced that is the case.

You say that 65K is not enough to fly an airplane. But then you turn around and tell me I should keep slogging away for half of that pay? Which is it?

65k is not enough to fly this airplane, not any airplane. And nobody suggested that you should keep 'slogging' away. I'd suggest you get a better job but keep in mind if everyone had your attitude there would be no better jobs.

By the way, Doug Taylor, Don, etc did not get hired by DAL, UPS, etc the day after they passed their CMEL. They WERE the little man for a long time and I don't think they have any desire to 'keep us down', but just to make sure there is a place worth coming to and striving for for us little men in the future.

[Foxcow]

Originally Posted by skydog

I am completely serious. A guy earning 30K a year to fly a Metro should turn down twice that to do an easier job? All other things being equal, why would anyone do that?

I understand why guys like Doug Taylor or DE727 (don't know his name) want me to turn it down. It undermines their big fat paychecks. No surprise there. The elites of the world have always advocated keeping the little man down because it strengthens the ground upon which they, the elites, stand. I understand their motivation. What I don't understand is why the little man so willingly goes along with it.

You say that 65K is not enough to fly an airplane. But then you turn around and tell me I should keep slogging away for half of that pay? Which is it?

Just to get a clearer picture of why you are saying this, who do you fly for?