Questions about IOE Captains

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I was wondering about IOE Captains at any given airline...

1. Are those considered the Check Airmen?

2. What quals do Captains need to become an IOE Captain? Do they need to hold an instructor certificate, a CFI-MEI?

3. How do Captains get chosen to become an IOE Captain? Seniority? Someone recommends them?

Thanks!

[DE727UPS]

"Do they need to hold an instructor certificate"

Not according to the FAA.

[casey]

check airmen come in two flavors, on-line and off-line. Off line check airmen are the guys that live in the sims, instruct and conduct proficiency checks, line oriented flight training, etc. On-line check airmen conduct OE (intial and upgrade), line checks, etc.

Typically check airmen are fairly senior captains and is a resume/interview process at a lot of places and a training cycle.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Thanks guys!

About those online IOE Captains, do they *solely* fly with initial and upgrade pilots, or do they also just fly normal trips (with the said captain in the left seat and a normal line pilot F/O in the right seat)?


If that's the case, do they bid for IOE trips, or is it up to crew sked to assign IOE trips to Captains as the new hires come on line?

[DE727UPS]

There are two ways it works at UPS. The checkairman bids whatever line he wants. Then, if it's a suitable line (no international, no reserve, the more flying the better), they withhold that line from F/O bidding. Then, that seat would have to be filled with an IOE student or a reserve. The company tries to guess how much training there will be and hold back the right number of lines but it's hard to predict two months in advance.

There are always a good number of checkairman available who did not have their line withheld from the F/O bid. If scheduling sends a student to fly with this checkairman, the F/O is displaced, with pay, for that trip (usually a week).

The checkairman only gets "instructing pay override" for block time with a student. It's $55/hr. He gets nothing when flying the line with a normal F/O.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

There are two ways it works at UPS. The checkairman bids whatever line he wants. Then, if it's a suitable line (no international, no reserve, the more flying the better), they withhold that line from F/O bidding. Then, that seat would have to be filled with an IOE student or a reserve. The company tries to guess how much training there will be and hold back the right number of lines but it's hard to predict two months in advance.

There are always a good number of checkairman available who did not have their line withheld from the F/O bid. If scheduling sends a student to fly with this checkairman, the F/O is displaced, with pay, for that trip (usually a week).

The checkairman only gets "instructing pay override" for block time with a student. It's $55/hr. He gets nothing when flying the line with a normal F/O.

Ahhh, gotcha! Thanks!

[seagull]

At FedEx the LCA bids a line, or reserve or what ever they want. The IOE schedulers can drop trips or what ever to make it work. The main difference is that, unlike UPS, they do not hold out any lines for either seat. The training flight will bump either the F/O or both the Capt and F/O to make the training happen (depending of in the LCA was already holding the trip or not). The person bumped gets paid for the trip and is off.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

I was wondering about IOE Captains at any given airline...

1. Are those considered the Check Airmen?

Yes.

2. What quals do Captains need to become an IOE Captain? Do they need to hold an instructor certificate, a CFI-MEI?

As long as the training is done as part of the approved airline training program, ATP is all they need.

3. How do Captains get chosen to become an IOE Captain? Seniority? Someone recommends them?

Thanks!

Interview for the position. There are minimum times at PCL to apply for check airman, then you have to go through an interview process. I'm not sure if seniority plays into it, but I wouldn't think so. It doesn't affect your bid, vacation or number of days off a month if you're a check airman or not. It always helps if someone recommends ya, though.

Our guys are similar to what Seagull described for FedEx. They bid just like any other line CA and are awarded the line the same way. If training needs to be done, the FO they're paired with gets "bought off" for training. There's an option for FOs bidding to not be paired with a check airman for this reason. Mainly b/c if you get bought off, you technically still get paid, but the trip you WERE on is now a sorta mini-reserve period. They've got 90 minutes prior and up to your original show time to assign you something. If it's a higher credit than what you were originally assigned, you get the higher of the two. If you don't get called, congrats. You just got time off with pay. I had a day last month where I was paired with an IOE captain, and low and behold, I got bought off that one day. With all the training going on here on the FO and CA side, odds are if you're paired with a check airman as an FO, you're gonna get bought off a LOT.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Yes.



As long as the training is done as part of the approved airline training program, ATP is all they need.



Interview for the position. There are minimum times at PCL to apply for check airman, then you have to go through an interview process. I'm not sure if seniority plays into it, but I wouldn't think so. It doesn't affect your bid, vacation or number of days off a month if you're a check airman or not. It always helps if someone recommends ya, though.

Our guys are similar to what Seagull described for FedEx. They bid just like any other line CA and are awarded the line the same way. If training needs to be done, the FO they're paired with gets "bought off" for training. There's an option for FOs bidding to not be paired with a check airman for this reason. Mainly b/c if you get bought off, you technically still get paid, but the trip you WERE on is now a sorta mini-reserve period. They've got 90 minutes prior and up to your original show time to assign you something. If it's a higher credit than what you were originally assigned, you get the higher of the two. If you don't get called, congrats. You just got time off with pay. I had a day last month where I was paired with an IOE captain, and low and behold, I got bought off that one day. With all the training going on here on the FO and CA side, odds are if you're paired with a check airman as an FO, you're gonna get bought off a LOT.

Interesting, we have a status like that for other things, but not for training bumps. In fact, we have a choice for f/o's to intentionally bid "check airman", kind of the opposite rational as yours!

[LoadMasterC141]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

The checkairman only gets "instructing pay override" for block time with a student. It's $55/hr. He gets nothing when flying the line with a normal F/O.

Wet behind ears syndrome again. It is probably that I do not understand the term "block time". Does this mean the check airman gets a minimum of $55/hr for any scheduled time, whether thet fly or not? OR the check airman gets an additional $55/hr for flight time with a student? Dang, for a senior UPS captain, that would make for a purty fat paycheck!

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by seagull

Interesting, we have a status like that for other things, but not for training bumps. In fact, we have a choice for f/o's to intentionally bid "check airman", kind of the opposite rational as yours!

I think part of the rationale is FOs here want to fly as much as they can. The per diem money helps to pay the bills, and the more we fly, the quicker the upgrade (and the bigger pay check) rolls around. FedEx actually gives their FOs a good QOL and a good pay check.

[DE727UPS]

"Wet behind ears syndrome again"

It's $55/hr for block time. That means from when the aircraft wheels first start moving on the ground (known as blocking out) to when the wheels stop moving on the ground after landing (known as blocking in). It's different from flight time in that block time includes taxiing. The guy that gave me my Capts IOE was kinda complaining $55/hr is hardly more than you'd pay for advanced instruction at top end FBO's. He's right about that.

[LoadMasterC141]

Ok understood, thanks.

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

I was wondering about IOE Captains at any given airline...

1. Are those considered the Check Airmen?

I believe technically check airmen are not the same as IOE captains. An IOE captain needs to meet the requirements of 121.412 while a check airman needs to meet the requirements of 121.411. Certainly the FAA calls them out seperately, which is usually an indication that they consider them different. Note that "IOE captain" is not an FAA term, although I'm going to assume that an IOE captain is a flight instructor in the eyes of the FAA.