Boeing 737 question

Boltonpilot · June 16th, 2003, 20:02

I noticed that Delta has a variety of 737's ranging from the -200, the -300 and the 737-800. Do 737 pilots recieve the training to fly all variants, or does the airline have to become more specific in which pilots fly these models?

Doug Taylor · June 16th, 2003, 20:21

We have four 737 categories at Delta:

The "73S" category only flies the 737-200 [MCO Only]
The "737" category flies the 737-200 and 737-300 (analog) [SLC/DFW/CVG/ATL]
The "73G" category only flies the 737-300 (glass/efis) [NYC/ATL]
The "73N" category only flies the 737-800 [ATL/NYC/SLC]

Mike Lewis · June 16th, 2003, 20:48

Some guy at an airport (who claimed he was somehow affiliated with Delta) told me that the 737-800 used the same avionics as the 757/767, and that if you were type rated in the 757/767, you would also be qualified in the 737-800. Any truth to that?

Boltonpilot · June 16th, 2003, 20:56

[ QUOTE ]
Some guy at an airport (who claimed he was somehow affiliated with Delta) told me that the 737-800 used the same avionics as the 757/767, and that if you were type rated in the 757/767, you would also be qualified in the 737-800. Any truth to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand the logic behind that

. The Boeing 737-800 is an aircraft which shares a common type rating with other NG 737's. The boeing 757/767, however, relies on a completley different type rating. Airlines certify pilots in only one type of aircraft, and any other variants which have abundant commonalities. (It's the most practical way in training pilots.) I've learned a bit about this stuff from people at NetJets who I know well in their training department.

Mr_Creepy · June 16th, 2003, 21:01

No the type is not the same.

The avionics package, however, is very similar but it is all HIDDEN. To put the EICAS and synopsis pages up there would have requried Herb Kelleher and his Kool-Aid drinkers to do differences training. So Boeing put all the magic behind the panel in the 737NGs (Next Generation).

Doug Taylor · June 16th, 2003, 21:41

[ QUOTE ]
Some guy at an airport (who claimed he was somehow affiliated with Delta) told me that the 737-800 used the same avionics as the 757/767, and that if you were type rated in the 757/767, you would also be qualified in the 737-800. Any truth to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope!

Way different.

vipermcg · June 16th, 2003, 21:47

I read that Austrian Airlines is one of the only airlines in the world to train their pilots to fly both the A320/A330/A340 at the same time.

justme · June 16th, 2003, 23:29

And with one hand tied behind their back.

zombie5225 · June 16th, 2003, 23:48

The 757/767 and the 737-800 are very different. I spent alot of time in both at American.

mpenguin1 · June 17th, 2003, 07:57

737 type rating covers all 737's, but you will need a differences course to fly the 737 with the glass cockpit, huge difference between the 737-200 vs the 737-600/700/800, that is cockpit wise.

I believe Southwest trains all their pilots in the 737-300 (glass cockpit), and has all the aircraft standardized as much as possible, so that the boys can go both ways.

Doug Taylor · June 17th, 2003, 10:03

The bad thing about SWA is that since their -200s don't have autothrottles, all of the autothrottles fleet-wide have been deactivated. Plus, every jet, even the 'glass/efis' has the 'six pack' of flight instruments.

Here's a SWA/CAL-style glass cockpit:

Here's a AA/DAL-style glass cockpit:

The question I have is whenever SWA gets rid of the old "round-dial" -200s and -300's, are they going to transition to the NG-style of instrumentation to take better advantage of the technology?

Cheechako · June 17th, 2003, 10:13

Doug,

Can you switch between the two displays? Can you get the speed and altitude tape display in the SWA/CAL versions?

Here are some side-by-side comparisons. See if you can tell which these are:

--
--

ready2fly · June 17th, 2003, 10:25

I'll admit - I can't tell which is which.... but they all certainly look FRIGGIN' COOL!!!

A320_DUDE · June 17th, 2003, 10:26

[ QUOTE ]
The bad thing about SWA is that since their -200s don't have autothrottles, all of the autothrottles fleet-wide have been deactivated. Plus, every jet, even the 'glass/efis' has the 'six pack' of flight instruments.

The question I have is whenever SWA gets rid of the old "round-dial" -200s and -300's, are they going to transition to the NG-style of instrumentation to take better advantage of the technology?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to answer you question Doug.....the entire -300/-500 fleet have the "round dial" gauges....even ol N652 which was the last -300 delivered to the company back in 1998. From what I get from my sources at SWA is a decision was made to keep the "Classic" fleet around for at least 7-12 more years,so the company has started shopping for a vendor to retro fit the older planes with the a NG type flight deck. More that likely it will be a configured like the -700s so they can avoid the costs of training the crews on another configuation. That was the reasoning agaist using the conventional NG displays and since Boeing just LUVs Southwest they came up with the new displays.

As for the autothrottles.....The VP of Flight Ops said the guys are using less fuel without them...so I would'nt see them installed/reactivated anytime soon. Hell why mess with something that's working.

Doug Taylor · June 17th, 2003, 10:38

CAL 737, 767-400/777 and a 737!

(Hint: Look at the yokes)

I don't think you can switch it yourself. But what do I know!

Mr_Creepy · June 17th, 2003, 12:12

I believe that last one is a Midway 737 - 361ML if I'm not mistaken.

kellwolf · June 17th, 2003, 16:42

Hmmm. Maybe we are starting to update them. I was handing paperwork to the Capt in a -300 the other day, and it had a glass cockpit instead of the guages. Of course we did get a little upset when dispatch decided it would be a good idea to switch out a 737-700 originally planned to go from MCO-SAT to a 737-200. :/

Tim · June 17th, 2003, 19:15

The pic of the 777 I believe belongs to Delta. Above the center screens is ship # 7003. The 737-300 is one and 767-400 is the other

cointyro · June 17th, 2003, 19:20

Which is the 767? Nice cockpit photos, sweet!

FlyChicaga · June 17th, 2003, 19:36

In the photos above, the first is a 737-700, the second is a 777, and the third is a 737-800.

I think the comment about the similarities/common type with the 757/767 and the 737-800 was due to the overhead panel. Boeing planned on using an overhead panel which was very similar to the 757 style, however doing so would require 800 and 900 pilots to have a different type rating compared to the current one for the rest of the fleet. As of now, if you get a 737 type rating (say in a -300), you just need to complete differences training to be certified to fly the -700, -800 and -900.

I was at the CAL training center going through a short ground school and sim session on the 737-300 EFIS, and we were permitted to use the CAL computer based training (CBT) programs. It had the general aircraft systems for the -300, -500, and -300 EFIS. Then it had differences sections to learn how the -700, -800, and -900 differed from the rest of the fleet. There are some major differences, but there is also many similarities.

Most of the differences in the "Classic" model 737s and the "NG" model 737s are in automation and pilot displays.

The 767-400 cockpit is arranged simliar to the 777 cockpit displayed above. It has 5 CRT displays across the cockpit. It has the same overhead panel as the older 767s, however. It does not require a new type rating, but like the 737s, requires differences training.

Cheechako · June 17th, 2003, 19:42

[ QUOTE ]
In the photos above, the first is a 737-700, the second is a 777, and the third is a 737-800.

[/ QUOTE ]

CORRECT! The first, the -700 is Southwest, then the 777 and the -800 are both Delta (or at least that's what the Airliners.net captions said).

I think all 737NGs, -600 and on have that cockpit setup, which I think was based on the 777 cockpit. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they're all flat screen LCDs and not the big tube CRTs.

Snow · June 17th, 2003, 20:56

No autothrottles? That mean you have to control the throttles manualy the whole time? Damn that sucks, you actually have to do somthing other than turn knobs haha.

The 732s have a low by-pass turbofans right or are they turbojet? Also what about 737-100s? do they exhist and does anyone still use them?

appel · June 17th, 2003, 22:26

[ QUOTE ]
Also what about 737-100s? do they exhist and does anyone still use them?

[/ QUOTE ]

America West Airlines flew the last 737-100 until end of 1999. Do a search for N708AW on airliners.net

Doug Taylor · June 18th, 2003, 00:23

Having no autothrottles is a pain the butt! Whew! Especially in the -88/90 because you can't hear the engines *at all* in the cockpit.

The 737-600/700/800, 767-400 and 777-200/300 all have liquid crystal displays.

mpenguin1 · June 18th, 2003, 08:27

Some outfit in Mexico flies the 737-100, when they sent in their paperwork for training, we thought they made a typo. Sheesh!

June 16th, 2003, 20:02	#1
Boltonpilot Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: OH Posts: 161	Boeing 737 question I noticed that Delta has a variety of 737's ranging from the -200, the -300 and the 737-800. Do 737 pilots recieve the training to fly all variants, or does the airline have to become more specific in which pilots fly these models?

June 16th, 2003, 20:21	#2
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Boeing 737 question We have four 737 categories at Delta: The "73S" category only flies the 737-200 [MCO Only] The "737" category flies the 737-200 and 737-300 (analog) [SLC/DFW/CVG/ATL] The "73G" category only flies the 737-300 (glass/efis) [NYC/ATL] The "73N" category only flies the 737-800 [ATL/NYC/SLC]

June 16th, 2003, 20:48	#3
Mike Lewis Shadow Administrator Join Date: Jul 1998 Location: Between KFCM and KMSP Posts: 6,227	Re: Boeing 737 question Some guy at an airport (who claimed he was somehow affiliated with Delta) told me that the 737-800 used the same avionics as the 757/767, and that if you were type rated in the 757/767, you would also be qualified in the 737-800. Any truth to that?

June 16th, 2003, 20:56	#4
Boltonpilot Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: OH Posts: 161	Re: Boeing 737 question [ QUOTE ] Some guy at an airport (who claimed he was somehow affiliated with Delta) told me that the 737-800 used the same avionics as the 757/767, and that if you were type rated in the 757/767, you would also be qualified in the 737-800. Any truth to that? [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand the logic behind that . The Boeing 737-800 is an aircraft which shares a common type rating with other NG 737's. The boeing 757/767, however, relies on a completley different type rating. Airlines certify pilots in only one type of aircraft, and any other variants which have abundant commonalities. (It's the most practical way in training pilots.) I've learned a bit about this stuff from people at NetJets who I know well in their training department.

June 16th, 2003, 21:01	#5
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Boeing 737 question No the type is not the same. The avionics package, however, is very similar but it is all HIDDEN. To put the EICAS and synopsis pages up there would have requried Herb Kelleher and his Kool-Aid drinkers to do differences training. So Boeing put all the magic behind the panel in the 737NGs (Next Generation).

June 16th, 2003, 21:41	#6
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Boeing 737 question [ QUOTE ] Some guy at an airport (who claimed he was somehow affiliated with Delta) told me that the 737-800 used the same avionics as the 757/767, and that if you were type rated in the 757/767, you would also be qualified in the 737-800. Any truth to that? [/ QUOTE ] Nope! Way different.

June 16th, 2003, 21:47	#7
vipermcg Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New York/ West Lafayette, IN Posts: 393	Re: Boeing 737 question I read that Austrian Airlines is one of the only airlines in the world to train their pilots to fly both the A320/A330/A340 at the same time.

June 16th, 2003, 23:29	#8
justme Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 81	Re: Boeing 737 question And with one hand tied behind their back.

June 16th, 2003, 23:48	#9
zombie5225 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Baltimore MD Posts: 117	Re: Boeing 737 question The 757/767 and the 737-800 are very different. I spent alot of time in both at American.

June 17th, 2003, 07:57	#10
mpenguin1 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 10,578 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Boeing 737 question 737 type rating covers all 737's, but you will need a differences course to fly the 737 with the glass cockpit, huge difference between the 737-200 vs the 737-600/700/800, that is cockpit wise. I believe Southwest trains all their pilots in the 737-300 (glass cockpit), and has all the aircraft standardized as much as possible, so that the boys can go both ways.

June 17th, 2003, 10:03	#11
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Boeing 737 question The bad thing about SWA is that since their -200s don't have autothrottles, all of the autothrottles fleet-wide have been deactivated. Plus, every jet, even the 'glass/efis' has the 'six pack' of flight instruments. Here's a SWA/CAL-style glass cockpit: Here's a AA/DAL-style glass cockpit: The question I have is whenever SWA gets rid of the old "round-dial" -200s and -300's, are they going to transition to the NG-style of instrumentation to take better advantage of the technology?

June 17th, 2003, 10:13	#12
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 994	Re: Boeing 737 question Doug, Can you switch between the two displays? Can you get the speed and altitude tape display in the SWA/CAL versions? Here are some side-by-side comparisons. See if you can tell which these are: -- -- -- --

June 17th, 2003, 10:25	#13
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,373	Re: Boeing 737 question I'll admit - I can't tell which is which.... but they all certainly look FRIGGIN' COOL!!!

June 17th, 2003, 10:26	#14
A320_DUDE Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hartford,CT Posts: 220	Re: Boeing 737 question [ QUOTE ] The bad thing about SWA is that since their -200s don't have autothrottles, all of the autothrottles fleet-wide have been deactivated. Plus, every jet, even the 'glass/efis' has the 'six pack' of flight instruments. The question I have is whenever SWA gets rid of the old "round-dial" -200s and -300's, are they going to transition to the NG-style of instrumentation to take better advantage of the technology? [/ QUOTE ] Just to answer you question Doug.....the entire -300/-500 fleet have the "round dial" gauges....even ol N652 which was the last -300 delivered to the company back in 1998. From what I get from my sources at SWA is a decision was made to keep the "Classic" fleet around for at least 7-12 more years,so the company has started shopping for a vendor to retro fit the older planes with the a NG type flight deck. More that likely it will be a configured like the -700s so they can avoid the costs of training the crews on another configuation. That was the reasoning agaist using the conventional NG displays and since Boeing just LUVs Southwest they came up with the new displays. As for the autothrottles.....The VP of Flight Ops said the guys are using less fuel without them...so I would'nt see them installed/reactivated anytime soon. Hell why mess with something that's working.

June 17th, 2003, 10:38	#15
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Boeing 737 question CAL 737, 767-400/777 and a 737! (Hint: Look at the yokes) I don't think you can switch it yourself. But what do I know!

June 17th, 2003, 12:12	#16
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Boeing 737 question I believe that last one is a Midway 737 - 361ML if I'm not mistaken.

June 17th, 2003, 16:42	#17
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,230	Re: Boeing 737 question Hmmm. Maybe we are starting to update them. I was handing paperwork to the Capt in a -300 the other day, and it had a glass cockpit instead of the guages. Of course we did get a little upset when dispatch decided it would be a good idea to switch out a 737-700 originally planned to go from MCO-SAT to a 737-200. :/

June 17th, 2003, 19:15	#18
Tim Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,205	Re: Boeing 737 question The pic of the 777 I believe belongs to Delta. Above the center screens is ship # 7003. The 737-300 is one and 767-400 is the other

June 17th, 2003, 19:20	#19
cointyro Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: East Palo Alto, CA Posts: 306	Re: Boeing 737 question Which is the 767? Nice cockpit photos, sweet!

June 17th, 2003, 19:36	#20
FlyChicaga Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,886	Re: Boeing 737 question In the photos above, the first is a 737-700, the second is a 777, and the third is a 737-800. I think the comment about the similarities/common type with the 757/767 and the 737-800 was due to the overhead panel. Boeing planned on using an overhead panel which was very similar to the 757 style, however doing so would require 800 and 900 pilots to have a different type rating compared to the current one for the rest of the fleet. As of now, if you get a 737 type rating (say in a -300), you just need to complete differences training to be certified to fly the -700, -800 and -900. I was at the CAL training center going through a short ground school and sim session on the 737-300 EFIS, and we were permitted to use the CAL computer based training (CBT) programs. It had the general aircraft systems for the -300, -500, and -300 EFIS. Then it had differences sections to learn how the -700, -800, and -900 differed from the rest of the fleet. There are some major differences, but there is also many similarities. Most of the differences in the "Classic" model 737s and the "NG" model 737s are in automation and pilot displays. The 767-400 cockpit is arranged simliar to the 777 cockpit displayed above. It has 5 CRT displays across the cockpit. It has the same overhead panel as the older 767s, however. It does not require a new type rating, but like the 737s, requires differences training.

June 17th, 2003, 19:42	#21
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 994	Re: Boeing 737 question [ QUOTE ] In the photos above, the first is a 737-700, the second is a 777, and the third is a 737-800. [/ QUOTE ] CORRECT! The first, the -700 is Southwest, then the 777 and the -800 are both Delta (or at least that's what the Airliners.net captions said). I think all 737NGs, -600 and on have that cockpit setup, which I think was based on the 777 cockpit. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they're all flat screen LCDs and not the big tube CRTs.

June 17th, 2003, 20:56	#22
Snow Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 870	Re: Boeing 737 question No autothrottles? That mean you have to control the throttles manualy the whole time? Damn that sucks, you actually have to do somthing other than turn knobs haha. The 732s have a low by-pass turbofans right or are they turbojet? Also what about 737-100s? do they exhist and does anyone still use them?

June 17th, 2003, 22:26	#23
appel Newbie Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 19	Re: Boeing 737 question [ QUOTE ] Also what about 737-100s? do they exhist and does anyone still use them? [/ QUOTE ] America West Airlines flew the last 737-100 until end of 1999. Do a search for N708AW on airliners.net

June 18th, 2003, 00:23	#24
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Boeing 737 question Having no autothrottles is a pain the butt! Whew! Especially in the -88/90 because you can't hear the engines at all in the cockpit. The 737-600/700/800, 767-400 and 777-200/300 all have liquid crystal displays.

June 18th, 2003, 08:27	#25
mpenguin1 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 10,578 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Boeing 737 question Some outfit in Mexico flies the 737-100, when they sent in their paperwork for training, we thought they made a typo. Sheesh!

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