US to International

FlyChicaga · February 3rd, 2002, 19:43

Anyone have any idea on how a US-trained pilot (licensed under FAA) can become qualified to fly in places like Australia or Western Europe (Ireland, France, Britain?)

spandey · February 4th, 2002, 15:14

Its quite difficult to do this but if you try hard enough and long enough there are opportunities.

If you're looking to fly in other developed nations like Australia and Europe they first have to certify to their governments that there is no one within the domestic pool capable of performing the job, and only then can they issue you a work permit.

Sometimes Airlines change fleets and need direct entry captains to help train their pilots till they can put them in command. Startups usually look for pilots from the US. For example Virgin has a couple of US pilots who were recruited when they first started.

Theres also the factor of supply and demand. KLM hired some US pilots a while back.

Mostly you can expect to work for a 5 year period under contract and ex-patriate terms. After that either you come back to the US or have to become a citizen of the other country which is a whole lot of paperwork and hassles.

Look into Asia and Africa, some great jobs out there. Sure there is a change in the lifestyle and you'll probably make less in terms of the dollar, but you'll be flying wide bodies as a capt in no time.

I_Money · February 5th, 2002, 07:02

Firstly you need the right to live and work in the EU. This can be quite tough to gain (well without claiming asylum).
They you will need to take the who IR couse again, the Commercial checkride, and the frozen ATPL checkride, aswell as 13 written tests. I know the written portion alone take about 4-6 months, and I am unsure how long the flying takes. However with weather like we have in the UK I imgaine it takes some time.

davetheflyer · February 9th, 2002, 12:50

Iain,

What is a "frozen ATPL checkride?"

With 13 written tests, it's no wonder you guys come over here to train! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

I_Money · February 10th, 2002, 01:36

I do not know I have not taken it yet. I presume it is like a commercial +. You need it before you will be hired.

**DONOTDELETE** · April 25th, 2002, 17:36

Hi, guys. I'm a pilot from Spain and I did my initial training in the US. Then I had to convert it to the spanish license. I had to take 9 written test for the commercial license, 9 for the IR, and after I passed the flight test for the commarcial on a Bonanza and the IR test on a C-90 (which incidentally I had never flown before) I could take 9 for what's called the frozen ATPL. I can assure you that all 27 of them were very tough. A frozen ATPL is simply when you pass all the knowledge test for the ATP License, you are issued a frozen ATPL. When you get 1,500 hours, you can apply for the flight test, and if you pass it you get the full ATP license.
It took me almost 3 years to get the commercial, IR, frozen ATPL. I've been flying B737-300/400/800's for the past four years and I have a JAA ATPL.
Hope you guys understood all this.
It's an uphill struggle, but one that you can win.

Ramsey · July 2nd, 2002, 04:22

I am not sure about other countries, but here in Germany all you need to do id find a N registered airplane. Of course if you mean professionally, listen to Iain...

Scorpio11982 · July 4th, 2002, 21:16

I have a related question.

I will be going to Sigonella Italy next year for a couple of months , less than a year though.
I'm working on getting my PPL before going to Italy..
Will i be able to log PIC time over their( like solo's in the pattern ) and log it over here... I'm not Planning on getting any European Flight Certificate. It seems to technical and stressful. I will be working really long hours and will be to stressed to start learning international Regulations and stuff)
Any web site on Flying it Italy or euro will be great alos
Do i have to speak Spanish or Italian to Fly their ???
any type of info will be greatly appreciated.. thanks :? )

Scorpio11982 · July 4th, 2002, 21:19

Anybody know of a Airport close to Sigonella Italy.. or any info or links on this matter??

I_Money · July 5th, 2002, 20:36

If you want to solo in the pattern in an Italian registered aircraft you will probably need an Italian medical (don't quote me on that though). If you have your PPL you will be able to fly day VFR in an Italian aircraft (I am fairly sure Italy is the same as the UK).

At the smaller aiarports they will probably speak Italian however I would imagine they also speak English!

Scorpio11982 · July 6th, 2002, 09:42

thanks alot Iain.. I hope that's all they'll need.. I also hope a majority of them speak English..

I'll be like huh???? do you mean decend??

hey does anybody have any links or web info on flying in Euro or Italy or the Airports over their and their locations, ( or prices things of that sort??)

hey Iain Will i be able to log those solo time as PIC on my American Log Book ??? i'm not to sure on the rules???

I_Money · July 6th, 2002, 13:17

Yes, but only if JAA regs are similar to the FAA regs in regards to logging PIC when you solo. You will also need an Italian CFI to sign you off.

Scorpio11982 · July 6th, 2002, 18:03

Thanks alot for the info ..

MAS · July 14th, 2002, 15:16

Ok guys,

Lets keep the confusion to a minimum here!
People might actually read this and be misinformed.
I suggest you look up validation versus certification.
How many sign-off's have you seen in a JAR logbook?

Iain, no offense, but maybe you should investigate the matters at hand a bit before giving advice on a site like this, I know you mean well and probably are a good colleague to your fellow students, but some of your replies appear to be a product of your own imagination.

Scorpio, if you want to fly (legally) in an Italian registered aircraft you need a validation on your FAA PPL, this gives you the same privileges as on your FAA PPL except the night privileges. In addition you will need a 'local' medical and a radiolicense if you plan to fly in airspace where two-way RDO is required (probably a good idea anyway) you can apply for an FCC license in the US, that will be valid as a radio license in Italy also. As far as logging PIC..... What does your certificate say regarding class and category??? Probably airplane single engine land, so if you fly a single engine land airplane you can log PIC, you may want to look into prices with a flying club in the vicinity of where you will be staying, as flying in Europe as quite a different matter pricewise form what you have seen in the US.

Edited for smelling pistakes

I_Money · July 14th, 2002, 15:44

MAS - I am fairly confident you know more about it then me, but from my experience in the UK, I do not have a local medical, or an FCC license and have been PIC over here.

MAS · July 15th, 2002, 04:04

Iain,
that's because you don't fly on a JAR license but on a validated FAA license.

Scorpio11982 · July 15th, 2002, 16:37

thanks for the info MAS.. I'm just glad i don't have to go through hell just to Fly over their... thanks again [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I just hope i'm not requried to speak Italian/ spanish for the FCC over their [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

February 3rd, 2002, 19:43	#1
FlyChicaga Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,833	US to International Anyone have any idea on how a US-trained pilot (licensed under FAA) can become qualified to fly in places like Australia or Western Europe (Ireland, France, Britain?)

February 4th, 2002, 15:14	#2
spandey Newbie Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 14	Re: US to International Its quite difficult to do this but if you try hard enough and long enough there are opportunities. If you're looking to fly in other developed nations like Australia and Europe they first have to certify to their governments that there is no one within the domestic pool capable of performing the job, and only then can they issue you a work permit. Sometimes Airlines change fleets and need direct entry captains to help train their pilots till they can put them in command. Startups usually look for pilots from the US. For example Virgin has a couple of US pilots who were recruited when they first started. Theres also the factor of supply and demand. KLM hired some US pilots a while back. Mostly you can expect to work for a 5 year period under contract and ex-patriate terms. After that either you come back to the US or have to become a citizen of the other country which is a whole lot of paperwork and hassles. Look into Asia and Africa, some great jobs out there. Sure there is a change in the lifestyle and you'll probably make less in terms of the dollar, but you'll be flying wide bodies as a capt in no time.

February 5th, 2002, 07:02	#3
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,674	Re: US to International Firstly you need the right to live and work in the EU. This can be quite tough to gain (well without claiming asylum). They you will need to take the who IR couse again, the Commercial checkride, and the frozen ATPL checkride, aswell as 13 written tests. I know the written portion alone take about 4-6 months, and I am unsure how long the flying takes. However with weather like we have in the UK I imgaine it takes some time.

February 9th, 2002, 12:50	#4
davetheflyer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: KATL, Georgia, Tennessee Posts: 1,016	Re: US to International Iain, What is a "frozen ATPL checkride?" With 13 written tests, it's no wonder you guys come over here to train! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

February 10th, 2002, 01:36	#5
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,674	Re: US to International I do not know I have not taken it yet. I presume it is like a commercial +. You need it before you will be hired.

April 25th, 2002, 17:36	#6
DONOTDELETE Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 883	Re: US to International Hi, guys. I'm a pilot from Spain and I did my initial training in the US. Then I had to convert it to the spanish license. I had to take 9 written test for the commercial license, 9 for the IR, and after I passed the flight test for the commarcial on a Bonanza and the IR test on a C-90 (which incidentally I had never flown before) I could take 9 for what's called the frozen ATPL. I can assure you that all 27 of them were very tough. A frozen ATPL is simply when you pass all the knowledge test for the ATP License, you are issued a frozen ATPL. When you get 1,500 hours, you can apply for the flight test, and if you pass it you get the full ATP license. It took me almost 3 years to get the commercial, IR, frozen ATPL. I've been flying B737-300/400/800's for the past four years and I have a JAA ATPL. Hope you guys understood all this. It's an uphill struggle, but one that you can win.

July 2nd, 2002, 04:22	#7
Ramsey Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ramstein Air Base, Germany; LH 747-400 SIM Posts: 567	Re: US to International I am not sure about other countries, but here in Germany all you need to do id find a N registered airplane. Of course if you mean professionally, listen to Iain...

July 4th, 2002, 21:16	#8
Scorpio11982 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 186	Re: US to International I have a related question. I will be going to Sigonella Italy next year for a couple of months , less than a year though. I'm working on getting my PPL before going to Italy.. Will i be able to log PIC time over their( like solo's in the pattern ) and log it over here... I'm not Planning on getting any European Flight Certificate. It seems to technical and stressful. I will be working really long hours and will be to stressed to start learning international Regulations and stuff) Any web site on Flying it Italy or euro will be great alos Do i have to speak Spanish or Italian to Fly their ??? any type of info will be greatly appreciated.. thanks :? )

July 4th, 2002, 21:19	#9
Scorpio11982 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 186	Re: US to International Anybody know of a Airport close to Sigonella Italy.. or any info or links on this matter??

July 5th, 2002, 20:36	#10
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,674	Re: US to International If you want to solo in the pattern in an Italian registered aircraft you will probably need an Italian medical (don't quote me on that though). If you have your PPL you will be able to fly day VFR in an Italian aircraft (I am fairly sure Italy is the same as the UK). At the smaller aiarports they will probably speak Italian however I would imagine they also speak English!

July 6th, 2002, 09:42	#11
Scorpio11982 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 186	Re: US to International thanks alot Iain.. I hope that's all they'll need.. I also hope a majority of them speak English.. I'll be like huh???? do you mean decend?? hey does anybody have any links or web info on flying in Euro or Italy or the Airports over their and their locations, ( or prices things of that sort??) hey Iain Will i be able to log those solo time as PIC on my American Log Book ??? i'm not to sure on the rules???

July 6th, 2002, 13:17	#12
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,674	Re: US to International Yes, but only if JAA regs are similar to the FAA regs in regards to logging PIC when you solo. You will also need an Italian CFI to sign you off.

July 6th, 2002, 18:03	#13
Scorpio11982 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 186	Re: US to International Thanks alot for the info ..

July 14th, 2002, 15:16	#14
MAS Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 35	Re: US to International Ok guys, Lets keep the confusion to a minimum here! People might actually read this and be misinformed. I suggest you look up validation versus certification. How many sign-off's have you seen in a JAR logbook? Iain, no offense, but maybe you should investigate the matters at hand a bit before giving advice on a site like this, I know you mean well and probably are a good colleague to your fellow students, but some of your replies appear to be a product of your own imagination. Scorpio, if you want to fly (legally) in an Italian registered aircraft you need a validation on your FAA PPL, this gives you the same privileges as on your FAA PPL except the night privileges. In addition you will need a 'local' medical and a radiolicense if you plan to fly in airspace where two-way RDO is required (probably a good idea anyway) you can apply for an FCC license in the US, that will be valid as a radio license in Italy also. As far as logging PIC..... What does your certificate say regarding class and category??? Probably airplane single engine land, so if you fly a single engine land airplane you can log PIC, you may want to look into prices with a flying club in the vicinity of where you will be staying, as flying in Europe as quite a different matter pricewise form what you have seen in the US. Edited for smelling pistakes

July 14th, 2002, 15:44	#15
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,674	Re: US to International MAS - I am fairly confident you know more about it then me, but from my experience in the UK, I do not have a local medical, or an FCC license and have been PIC over here.

July 15th, 2002, 04:04	#16
MAS Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 35	Re: US to International Iain, that's because you don't fly on a JAR license but on a validated FAA license.

July 15th, 2002, 16:37	#17
Scorpio11982 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 186	Re: US to International thanks for the info MAS.. I'm just glad i don't have to go through hell just to Fly over their... thanks again [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I just hope i'm not requried to speak Italian/ spanish for the FCC over their [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

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