Side question on safety pilot issue

[meyers9163]

Ok so I have a question I've kind of been wondering about. I know a few people who have only a PPL and have flown with a friend or buddy as a 'safety pilot' when they are praticing approaches or other things and actually log it as safety and PIC (and when x/cs that too). My question is how can they do this when they only have a PPL and they are on a flight that is IFR? Then I question how they do not get caught with this, or is doing this allowed? Basically they are flying on an instrument route/plan and only have a PPL and yet they count it as their safety pilot and x/c hours? I guess I was under the impression you had to be IFR to log safety IFR?

[Ian J]

I think you are confused here. Safety pilot is logged when VMC, but the other pilot is under the hood. If it is IMC, no safety pilot is needed, nor can safety pilot be logged. The type of "rules" you are operating under (VFR or IFR) doesn't matter.

Any PPL or above may act as a safety pilot.

[meyers9163]

That makes sense, so its based on IMC or VMC. That makes sense!

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Ok so I have a question I've kind of been wondering about. I know a few people who have only a PPL and have flown with a friend or buddy as a 'safety pilot' when they are praticing approaches or other things and actually log it as safety and PIC (and when x/cs that too). My question is how can they do this when they only have a PPL and they are on a flight that is IFR?

Are they on a flight that's IFR?

You can do practice approaches without being on an IFR flight plan or operating under instrument flight rules. Most are probably done that way.

But, Chinook, I think you're wrong about the "rules." If they are in fact flying under instrument flight rules, then the safety pilot cannot log PIC unless the safety pilot is instrument rated. That's because, under 61.51(e), in order to log PIC as a safety pilot, the safety pilot must be acting as PIC. Can't do that under IFR without an instrument rating.

(I not even sure a pilot can =act= as a safety pilot at all under IFR without an instrument rating since not only can he not act as PIC, but 61.63(a) says he can't act as SIC either)

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

Are they on a flight that's IFR?

You can do practice approaches without being on an IFR flight plan or operating under instrument flight rules. Most are probably done that way.

But, Chinook, I think you're wrong about the "rules." If they are in fact flying under instrument flight rules, then the safety pilot cannot log PIC unless the safety pilot is instrument rated. That's because, under 61.51(e), in order to log PIC as a safety pilot, the safety pilot must be acting as PIC. Can't do that under IFR without an instrument rating.

(I not even sure a pilot can =act= as a safety pilot at all under IFR without an instrument rating since not only can he not act as PIC, but 61.63(a) says he can't act as SIC either)

Interesting. I never realized that... seems a little convoluted, but I get it.