DUI Three Days After Being Hired

[frightinstructor]

I'm new here, but I got some good feedback on something I posted a few days ago. Maybe some of you can help me with this situation:

I was recently offered a job with a regional; class starts in a few weeks. Three days after being offered the job I was celebrating with friends and got a DUI on the way home.

Before this incident I had a perfect driving record, no criminal record - all clean. The charges are being contested for various reasons, and a conviction (if any) will not occur for several months. I would appreciate any feedback I can get with regard to this situation, specifically with respect to these questions:
When does the airline conduct the background check?

If nothing on this incident shows up on the background check, is there another way they might find out down the road?

I've heard that the FAA doen't typically take action on pilot certificates at the 1st offense. Anybody heard otherwise?

Would you tell the airline about the incident? Think they'd just tell me to not show up for class?

Any other prudent thoughts are much appreciated.

[meritflyer]

Whoops! Bad decision my friend.

Read FAR 61.15(e) says if convicted, you must file form AMC-700 to the FAA Civil Aviation Security Division no later than 60 days after the conviction.

It then goes on to say in 61.15(f), that if you fail to file AMC-700 within the time frame, it is grounds for denial of an application for a certificate or rating and/or revocation of your current certificates and ratings.

[N422NM]

BI's are typically done prior to Ground School, or the 1st week of GS during Indoc....

[frightinstructor]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Whoops! Bad decision my friend.

You think you have to tell me that? Seriously, I understand it was a bad bad bad decision. The worst. I kick my own ass a hundred times a day for this. But now I'm trying to choose the best course of action and hoping for some useful info to help guide me.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by frightinstructor

You think you have to tell me that? Seriously, I understand it was a bad bad bad decision. The worst. I kick my own ass a hundred times a day for this. But now I'm trying to choose the best course of action and hoping for some useful info to help guide me.

Personally, I would fully disclose this to the FAA and your regional. I have had people have their medical taken away for something on the driving record that was not disclosed. Now, imagine being a new-hire at a regional, losing your medical, and then being told you no longer have a job since you didn't disclose this...

Choose the best way for you to be a stand-up guy/gal so you can learn and move on, instead of having to hide this the next 10 years.

Good luck whatever you decide, and welcome to JC!

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

Personally, I would fully disclose this to the FAA and your regional.

Ditto. He is legally obligated to if convicted. See my prior post.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by frightinstructor

You think you have to tell me that? Seriously, I understand it was a bad bad bad decision. The worst. I kick my own ass a hundred times a day for this. But now I'm trying to choose the best course of action and hoping for some useful info to help guide me.

I'd hire an attorney familiar with aviation. Maybe AOPA can recommend one.

[frightinstructor]

Yes, I am planning to report as per 14 CFR 61.15(e). I will also disclose this on my Form 8500-8 when I renew my medical.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Ditto. He is legally obligated to if convicted. See my prior post.

You did a nice edit job while I was typing that up! Yes, I am very familiar with that...however, the line of questioning from the original poster made it sound like they were wanting to avoid disclosing. I apologize in advance if I read too much into it, but that is what I was taking away from it, and thus my response.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

You did a nice edit job while I was typing that up! Yes, I am very familiar with that...however, the line of questioning from the original poster made it sound like they were wanting to avoid disclosing. I apologize in advance if I read too much into it, but that is what I was taking away from it, and thus my response.

I am berry berry sneaky, sir.

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by frightinstructor

You think you have to tell me that? Seriously, I understand it was a bad bad bad decision. The worst. I kick my own ass a hundred times a day for this. But now I'm trying to choose the best course of action and hoping for some useful info to help guide me.

I really have no idea if you could get away with not telling the airline or not. Depending on the company, they've probably already run a check on you, so I guess there's a chance they might not find out about it in the near future. Here's the thing, though: if they do find out about it--which I'd guess they will eventually--they're going to be really pissed that they spent $30,000 training you. I can definately see them firing you on the spot. Then you'll not only have to explain a DUI arrest/conviction on future interviews, but why you got canned from an airline.

If you call up the director of training, explain what happened as honestly as possible, tell them whatever grounds you're fighting the charges on, and be really humble about the whole thing, maybe they won't tell you to scrap the class date. If they do, though, since you're not an employee yet, you might have an easier time in future interviews.

I really have nothing to go on here other than the fact that the airlines I've worked for have been fanatical about honesty. You'd be surprised at the offenses people won't get fired for if they admit they screwed up, seek the appropriate help, and show that they understand the mistakes they made.

I could be completely wrong, but that's what I'd do.

[Captain_Bob]

You really can't go wrong "personallY' with owning up to it to the director of training.

Even if they do let you go... you will have a wonderful "situation" to discuss in your next interview, about how faced with a difficult decision... you took the high road and owned and took responsibility for your actions... even if you aren't "convicted".

That may just save your overall career.

Versus... trying to get away with it... and having them possibly find out down the road... and having that be the reason that they let you go.

That... would be much worse for future interview fodder.

Regardless... get an attorney like others have suggested... a good one... you are talking about your career here so don't skimp. Regardless of the outcome... own your actions... for better or worse. People will notice this.

Bob

[meritflyer]

Damn it Captain_Bob, you're always right!

[E_Dawg]

Get a lawyer and spend whatever you have to in order to get it reduced to a DWI or something. You're not convicted yet and depending on whether it gets reduced you may have nothing to report. That's a big gamble though and I personally would tell them.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by E_Dawg

You're not convicted yet and depending on whether it gets reduced you may have nothing to report.

I read a little further into 61.15(e)(1-5) and it appears he doesnt even need to be convicted. It says "no later than 60 days from the motor vehicle action".

In 61.15(e)(2) which discusses the report that needs to be filed, it says he needs to report "the date of conviction or the administrative action;"

Looks like he needs to file the form regardless of conviction, reduced charges, or other potential actions which occured from the citation.

[E_Dawg]

Oh thanks, nevermind then.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by E_Dawg

Oh thanks, nevermind then.

I thought the same thing until I read a little more into it.

Good attorney is obviously the key here.

[CFIse]

You want to tell the company. Some people have suggested the Director of Training - which might be fine. However - at most places I'm familiar with the pilot hiring decision, somewhere down the line, involved a Chief Pilot. If they find something on your record you'll almost certainly be talking to a Chief Pilot - therefore, I would try and find a way to disclose this to the appropriate Chief Pilot and throw yourself on their mercy.

Given the hiring difficulties at most regionals these days I'd suspect you'll be OK - but you DEFINATELY want to disclose this, because if you don't and they find out, and they WILL find out, you'll be gone for sure.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by frightinstructor

.....
I was recently offered a job with a regional; class starts in a few weeks. Three days after being offered the job I was celebrating with friends and got a DUI on the way home.

..... The charges are being contested for various reasons, and a conviction (if any) will not occur for several months. .....
If nothing on this incident shows up on the background check, is there another way they might find out down the road?

.........

I may take some heat from the others here, but you know what, I am not too concerned with this one. You got a DUI. Too bad.

Contesting the charges? Why? You went out knowing you'd be drinking and then decided to get in a car and drive. Not only endangering yourself, but others. No sympathy here.

And then you ask, "...is there another way they might find out down the road?" Sounds like you are trying to hide something. That's responsible.

Do the right thing like others have said. Own up to it. Go to court, pay your fine and take your punishment. Then inform your airline. And hope they find it you did the responsible thing. I would venture to guess the responsible thing to do would have been to take a cab or have a sober driver. But that's just me. Otherwise, Good Luck on your next intervew.

p.s. Before someone spouts off about Geez, give the guy a break..... My wifes truck was totaled three years ago while her and my two young kids (6 & 3) at the time were in it. Another split second and I would have been attending a funeral because someone was out 'celebrating'. Imagine getting a phone call at midnight while you are out of town on a business trip and hearing that. Sorry, no sympathy here.

[meritflyer]

Jep, I'd like to inquire about the space you have for rent.

[Old Pete]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I'd hire an attorney familiar with aviation. Maybe AOPA can recommend one.

I would hire one familiar with DUI law.

Originally Posted by frightinstructor

I'm new here, but I got some good feedback on something I posted a few days ago. Maybe some of you can help me with this situation:

I was recently offered a job with a regional; class starts in a few weeks. Three days after being offered the job I was celebrating with friends and got a DUI on the way home.

When does the airline conduct the background check?

I don't know the answer to this one

If nothing on this incident shows up on the background check, is there another way they might find out down the road?

Oh sure, many ways, if you are convicted you may find your name in the local paper, you may find that you have to explain why you need to have certain days off to go to court, or do community service, people may ask why you are no longer driving, but getting rides from friends, wife, taking cabs. You may be asked for an I.D., and instead of having a Driver's License you only have a crumpled up citation that says DUI on it. Someone may overhear you talking to your lawyer on the phone. and many, many other ways.
A better question is How likely are they going to find out? That is hard to answer. I know several people who were convicted of DUI and their employer and auto insurance company never found out. But I wouldn't count on it.

I've heard that the FAA doen't typically take action on pilot certificates at the 1st offense. Anybody heard otherwise?

I have heard of the FAA taking action on a first offense, but your right, typically they don't.

Would you tell the airline about the incident?

Not unless/until you're convicted.

Think they'd just tell me to not show up for class?

You're living in a dream world if you think they will let to come to class with a DUI case hanging over your head.

Good luck, and prepare to spend a lot of money on the best DUI lawyer you can find.

[frightinstructor]

Originally Posted by Old Pete

I would hire one familiar with DUI law.

I have.


Quote:
Would you tell the airline about the incident?

Originally Posted by Old Pete

Not unless/until you're convicted.

What if a conviction (if any) would not occur until after class is over?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by frightinstructor

I have.


Quote:
Would you tell the airline about the incident?


What if a conviction (if any) would not occur until after class is over?

And when they ask why didn't you inform us earlier.....?

Stop trying to hide. Do the RESPONSIBLE thing and stop trying to figure out how to avoid it.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by JEP

p.s. Before someone spouts off about Geez, give the guy a break..... My wifes truck was totaled three years ago while her and my two young kids (6 & 3) at the time were in it. Another split second and I would have been attending a funeral because someone was out 'celebrating'. Imagine getting a phone call at midnight while you are out of town on a business trip and hearing that. Sorry, no sympathy here.

Well said JEP. Far more elequent than I would of put it. . . no one who drinks and drives will get much sympathy from me either. Far too many people do it without anything happening, and we are suppose to give support and help to those who are busted? Too bad, their lose. I'll help get them into some sort of education program, but I'm not going to be too supportive about them getting behind a >12,500lb aircraft for pax or cargo transport.

We each make mistakes, but some are on a much higher level than others. A DUI is a serious mistake, and is something that requires a strong fist of action against.

[Old Pete]

Originally Posted by frightinstructor

I have.


Quote:
Would you tell the airline about the incident?


What if a conviction (if any) would not occur until after class is over?

First of all, I am not a lawyer and take any advice I give you at your own peril. I'm only saying what I would do. If you get convicted, I would notify the FAA and your employer. If you don't get convicted, I wouldn't.