DUI Three Days After Being Hired

[Doug Taylor]

I know a guy (not I) that got a DUI during initial.

Getting a DUI, whether or not you're convicted can carry a lot of gravity depending on how you handle it.

The guy I know, after his arrest, went to his chief pilot and talked about what had happened and they were cool with it.

You're most likely on probation and when you start disappearing for court cases and the airline's wondering about your schedule reliability, being upfront about it *might* save your job.

Me? If I was working for an airline with a union, I'd call the MEC. If you don't have a union, I'd talk to my chief pilot ASAP.

If you're afraid they're going to fire you because you told him about a DUI infraction, they're probably going to fire you if it results in a conviction.

Talk to your union, do this NOW.

If you don't have a union, talk to your chief pilot immediately.

JMHO, but the guy I know who got a DUI in ground school was able to navigate the storm. If he hadn't have done that and started missing trips because of court, they'd have canned his tuckus for sure.

[Van_Hoolio]

Originally Posted by bradj2000

what numbers did you blow? or did you blow? My friend got pulled over and refused to blow so the cops took him to the station for a urine sample. An extra hour transpired and he peed a .075%

Was that after he pissed his pants the first time?

[I_Money]

I am DUIing tonight - DANCING UNDER THE UNFLUENCE!!!

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by I_Money

I am DUIing tonight - DANCING UNDER THE UNFLUENCE!!!

Boo Yah!!

[bradj2000]

Originally Posted by Van_Hoolio

Was that after he pissed his pants the first time?

I've thought about that before, should a person piss their pants while in back of the cop car?
Would your next piss be stronger or weaker in terms of BAC?

[bdhill1979]

Originally Posted by bradj2000

I've thought about that before, should a person piss their pants while in back of the cop car?
Would your next piss be stronger or weaker in terms of BAC?

definately less concentrated

[dingo222]

I agree that this guy should own up now with the company. Save yourself the embarrasment of getting yanked out of class and a possible 10 yr career stoppage. If they don't take you, so be it. Buck up and take it on the chin. I knew a guy that hid a DUI once, made it to ground school at a regional, then they found out and he got sent home. 3 months later he managed another interview, owned up, and he's a captain for them today. INTEGRITY is the key word here. Own up now, be humble, and show that you've learned from it.

As far as the rest of the peanut gallery saying this dude needs to own up, no sympathy etc, he needs a lawyer. Get a lawyer before you declare anything. THe FAR as vague at best, and by declaring something or reading into it, you may be screwing yourself. It's a career man, don't lose it over one big mistake. Captains that taxi off of runways don't call the CP and say "oops, im sorry, I guess i'm fired." They call the union, that gets a lawyer, and represents you. KNow your rights before you make any move.

I love this site, but I can't believe so many on here where so quick to pass judgement so quickly. Sounds more like FI for this post. He made a huge mistake, he admited it, he knows the consequesnces, and he was man and humble enough to come on a public forum and admit it. I admire the guy for having the cajones for at least owning up on this board.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by bradj2000

I've thought about that before, should a person piss their pants while in back of the cop car?
Would your next piss be stronger or weaker in terms of BAC?

Oh c'mon bro. Just dont get a DUI. Thats the best out.

[bradj2000]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Oh c'mon bro. Just dont get a DUI. Thats the best out.

It was just a thought...
My step brother was killed by a drink driver, My step brother was a marine corps helo pilot. I won't get a DUI
I have a pilot license that means a lot to me. I won't get a DUI
I work in logistics dept where a clean driving record is a must. I won't get a DUI.

Besides I prefer blow.

[meritflyer]

Smart lad!

[dingo222]

I agree, but we all make mistakes. Driving tired is just as dangerous as driving drunk. I'm not condoning drinving drunk. We know it's wrong before we drink, but we do it anyhow. I've driven drunk and i've driven tired. What's done is done, nobody got hurt or killed. THat's the most important point here. What he and WE learn from this point forward is what's most important.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I.....
Me? If I was working for an airline with a union, I'd call the MEC. If you don't have a union, I'd talk to my chief pilot ASAP.

.....
Talk to your union, do this NOW.

If you don't have a union, talk to your chief pilot immediately.

.......

Quick question, being he has not even started ground school yet, does he have any union help available?

When does the union benefits become availble? Job offer, during class, after successful IOE....

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

Uhhhhh, he's not saying that. Stop taking stuff to some off the wall extreme. Your comparing "Hey I gotta go to court for DUI" to "Hey I gotta go to court over killing somebody"

well, it's not uncommon for one to lead itself to another. Which is why I have absolutely no respect for drunk drivers.

I get what you're sayin though

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by JEP

Quick question, being he has not even started ground school yet, does he have any union help available?

When does the union benefits become availble? Job offer, during class, after successful IOE....

Out of the goodness of their hearts they might talk to him and advise him - but he's not a member, and even when he is he's an Apprentice member and on probation at the company so the union can't/won't do much for him. They may however be a source of information about how best to handle this at this specific company since, presumably, they would know the companies approach to this kind of thing pretty well.

[B767Driver]

FWIW, this is why I don't drink at all if I will be driving. Not even a beer while out at a nice dinner with friends. A close second, is that I refuse to pay $5-$8 for a drink.

My neighbor...a typically very responsible father of 4 and successful businessman...got a dui last summer. He had a couple of beers at a meeting then jumped in the car to drive home. Got nabbed speeding. He happened to be over the limit. He said it never even occurred to him that he was over the limit.

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

FWIW, this is why I don't drink at all if I will be driving. Not even a beer while out at a nice dinner with friends. A close second, is that I refuse to pay $5-$8 for a drink.

As I've advanced in my flight training, I've become very paranoid about drinking and driving. I'll have up to two beers with dinner and about an hour or so of time passing by, but that's it. It's just not worth it to me. I've already overcome too many obstacles at this point... I would just be emotionally crushed if I got a DUI!

I hope the OP can get this worked out using honesty and integrity. I've made mistakes and was lucky to move on after owning up to them. I hope he gets to do the same.

[Grabo172]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

because in this wonderful country we are afforded by law a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

i, as a good American, choose to fully exercise that right.

(Hmmm I may get jumped on for this... but)

Sometimes I think we, as americans, fully ABUSE this right.

Whether you're a murderer walking free becasue of a paperwork technicality or a person refusing to blow and relying on a blood or urine sample an hour later trying to squeak you below the limit (which if you do any biology or math, they can calculate what your BAC was at the time of the arrest) you are WRONG!!! Just because a "t" isn't crossed or some slimey lawer got you off because of some loop hole in the law doesn't mean you were "innocent"... it just means you're even WORSE of a person for "cheating" your way out of your punishment. Way to twist the good intentions of the Founding Fathers to suit your own lack of good judgement and poor character.


So... let the onslaught begin...

[PacMan4x4]

FRIGHTINSTRUCTOR.....I apologize for you having to endure the burdens of the world for your lapse in judgement and getting a DUI. As you can see, we have many folks on this site who have never had a brain fart and made a poor decision in their lives. I know how you feel and what you are going through as I admittedly have been in your shoes. Unfortunately, it's easy for folks to sit on their computers at home and put you in a "category" without even having met you and to blame you for ruining our judicial system....and for that sir, I apologize.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by PacMan4x4

....and for that sir, I apologize.

EDIT: You know what? This was a 4 paragraph response, but your post doesn't even deserve that. Don't take it personally, but don't go apologizing for other people just because you feel bad about something.

[DE727UPS]

Pacman, I think you make some very good points in referece to this thread. Thanks for your input.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by PacMan4x4

FRIGHTINSTRUCTOR.....I apologize for you having to endure the burdens of the world for your lapse in judgement and getting a DUI. As you can see, we have many folks on this site who have never had a brain fart and made a poor decision in their lives. I know how you feel and what you are going through as I admittedly have been in your shoes. Unfortunately, it's easy for folks to sit on their computers at home and put you in a "category" without even having met you and to blame you for ruining our judicial system....and for that sir, I apologize.

I'm gonna second this with a caviat:

I also second what JEP's been getting at because his reasons are warranted. He almost lost his family to a drunk driver. He can cast stones.

I'm gonna reveal a skeleton that's been in my JC closet, so ya'll sit tight:

I got a DUI in 1991 in Atlanta, GA. Like the poster of this thread, I lived the the reality of the piss-poor decision and was thankful nobody else was hurt.

That said - and I direct this to FlightInstructor - as someone who's:
(A) been in your shoes (albeit LONG before I ever pursued or dreamed of pursuing aviation as a career), and
(B) worked in the legal profession (aviation litigation for an AOPA attorney my last two years),

...I'm going to echo those on this thread who have said: "own up to your mistake and admit it ASAP."

Do NOT wait until your new employer "finds out" about it. Tell them first....but be prepared to live with the consequences. They may fire you. They may not. But be an adult and do the right thing.

If you'd like to PM me, feel free.

R2F

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by PacMan4x4

FRIGHTINSTRUCTOR.....I apologize for you having to endure the burdens of the world for your lapse in judgement and getting a DUI. As you can see, we have many folks on this site who have never had a brain fart and made a poor decision in their lives. I know how you feel and what you are going through as I admittedly have been in your shoes. Unfortunately, it's easy for folks to sit on their computers at home and put you in a "category" without even having met you and to blame you for ruining our judicial system....and for that sir, I apologize.

I think that it is all nice and good to call what he did a mistake. But lets not try to soften the extremely selfish act that was commited here. He could have killed someone or himself because of his poor judgement skills.

What if it was your wife or daughter or loved one or family member out there and he or another drunk driver killed or seriosuly injured them. I think some of you in here might be singing a far different tune.

That being said major props for admiting in a public forum that you did something wrong. Now the general consensus is to "man up" and take what you have coming. Which either might be negative or not.

Though I myself am not much of a drinker I can't put myself in your shoes so I definately won't apoligize or excuse for your actions because I played no part in it. But I will empathize with your situation and the choices you now have to make as a result and the decsion that may now befall you.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

I'm gonna second this with a caviat:

I also second what JEP's been getting at because his reasons are warranted. He almost lost his family to a drunk driver. He can cast stones.

......
R2F

Here's you're split second proof. This guy ran a stop sign and smoked the truck. You can see where he hit it. The truck spun around and hit a pole and that was the damage in the back. All that saved the life of my family was a split second. Just a hair more and this guy who blew a .23 would have t-boned the driver and hit right where my 3 yr old was in his car seat. Do you think a 3yr old could take that kind of damage.

Attachment 1639

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

right but you must read further to determine what qualifies as a "motor vehicle action"

FAR 61.15 says that a pilot must report any alcohol or drug related
“motor vehicle action.” A “motor vehicle action” is:
(1) any conviction for a violation of federal or state law relating to the
operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated, impaired, or under the
influence of alcohol or drugs,
(2) the cancellation, suspension or revocation of a driver’s license
relative to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated, impaired or
under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or
(3) the denial of an application for a license by a state for a cause
relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated, impaired, or
under the influence or alcohol or drugs.

thus, if he is convicted, he must report.

if his license is cancelled, suspended or revoked (again, sometimes this is automatic, sometimes it is not) he must report.

if his license is NOT immediated cancelled, suspended, or revoked... i would most certainly wait to see if he is CONVICTED before i report anything.

I won't get in the morality argument going on here, but on this point, you are essentially correct, except for the "immediately canceled" part. The cancellation can come later, at any point in the process.

As you mentioned earlier, there are differences in state law. But not that much. There have been federal funding mandates that have imposed a lot of uniformity in the DUI enforcement area, and I'm not sure that there are any states left which do not, at the least, provide for an license suspension based on either (a) failing a breath/blood/urine test or (b) refusing a breath/blood/urine test.

Of course, the OP knows whether his driving privileges have been suspended or not. If they have been, the FAA is due a report; if he gets convicted later, the FAA is due =another= report.

frightinstructor, I'm not sure this part of your question was answered:

I've heard that the FAA doesn't typically take action on pilot certificates at the 1st offense. Anybody heard otherwise?

That is generally true, but policies change and the severity of the consequences of the offense can make a difference.

I'd suggest an aviation career counselor for the "report to the company" issues and an attorney for the legal ones. It's a bad idea to make legal or career decisions based on "some guy on the Internet" in general, but DUI is especially such a hot button issue that, in an online forum, you are not likely to get solid advice without some serious moral judgments being sent your way.

[amorris311]

Originally Posted by JEP

Here's you're split second proof. This guy ran a stop sign and smoked the truck. You can see where he hit it. The truck spun around and hit a pole and that was the damage in the back. All that saved the life of my family was a split second. Just a hair more and this guy who blew a .23 would have t-boned the driver and hit right where my 3 yr old was in his car seat. Do you think a 3yr old could take that kind of damage.

Attachment 1639

a good friend of mine died last year in an alcohol related driving accident. you are lucky that your family was not hurt. my buddy was t-boned and decapitated from the collision. not a good summer.