DUI Three Days After Being Hired

[nbv4]

Originally Posted by JEP

I may take some heat from the others here, but you know what, I am not too concerned with this one. You got a DUI. Too bad.

Contesting the charges? Why? You went out knowing you'd be drinking and then decided to get in a car and drive. Not only endangering yourself, but others. No sympathy here.

And then you ask, "...is there another way they might find out down the road?" Sounds like you are trying to hide something. That's responsible.

Do the right thing like others have said. Own up to it. Go to court, pay your fine and take your punishment. Then inform your airline. And hope they find it you did the responsible thing. I would venture to guess the responsible thing to do would have been to take a cab or have a sober driver. But that's just me. Otherwise, Good Luck on your next intervew.

p.s. Before someone spouts off about Geez, give the guy a break..... My wifes truck was totaled three years ago while her and my two young kids (6 & 3) at the time were in it. Another split second and I would have been attending a funeral because someone was out 'celebrating'. Imagine getting a phone call at midnight while you are out of town on a business trip and hearing that. Sorry, no sympathy here.

*Edited by I_Money* PM me if you have questions

Anyways, he didn't come here asking for sympathy...

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by nbv4

*Edited by I_Money* PM me if you have questions

Anyways, he didn't come here asking for sympathy...

I'm with Jep, no excuse for driving drunk, absolutely none.

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by Old Pete

First of all, I am not a lawyer and take any advice I give you at your own peril. I'm only saying what I would do. If you get convicted, I would notify the FAA and your employer. If you don't get convicted, I wouldn't.

First of all, I believe meritflyer already outlined that you must report the incident to the FAA regardless of whether or not you're convicted. Second of all, I agree with all of those saying to own up to it. Don't try to get out of it. You'll most likely be screwing yourself in the long run. Try and win a few brownie points by showing that you're responsible. If you loose your job, well, I'm sorry, that's life. If I can loose my job by being irresponsible and sleeping in a morning or two, than perhaps its justified to loose your job over being irresponsible to a much higher degree and endangering other people's lives.

I completely agree with JEP. I have no sympathy for drunk drivers.

All that said, my opinion of people is not based on their mistakes, but rather what they do with them. If you own up to your mistake, take the responsibility that is now due you, then I'd be happy to see you learn from your mistake and be able to keep your job.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by JEP

.......p.s. Before someone spouts off about Geez, give the guy a break..... My wifes truck was totaled three years ago while her and my two young kids (6 & 3) at the time were in it. Another split second and I would have been attending a funeral because someone was out 'celebrating'. Imagine getting a phone call at midnight while you are out of town on a business trip and hearing that. Sorry, no sympathy here.

Originally Posted by nbv4

*Edited by I_Money* PM me if you have questions

#2 Anyways, he didn't come here asking for sympathy...

#1 Take the tone how you want, I could not care any less. See my reply above......and then come back when you get that midnight call.

#2 yeah well, you know what....he posted on a public forum and people are going to respond.

[av8sean]

Get a good lawyer asap.. depending where you live, if it's a first time offense and they're good you might get knocked down to reckless driving or something non-alcoholic related.

And as for reporting to the FAA, I'd talk to a lawyer on that too before you do anything. AOPA can give you someone to contact. If you get the charged knocked off it might be better to bite the bullet and non report it.. either way you'll be screwed.

[Sprint100]

[quote=nbv4;483988]*Edited by I_Money* PM me if you have questions [quote]

Would anything change in a softer tone? Heck, he got busted and that has consequences. I can sympathize with the consequences, but I also would just man up(take responsibilty).

[av8sean]

Suddenly my avatar seems a bit inappropriate..

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by iwareboy

Suddenly my avatar seems a bit inappropriate..

But that guy is flying, not driving. Big difference!

Do I need to say it? Okay, here it is:

[JEP]

May I direct the original poster to here:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/ask-a-flight-surgeon/

I'd like to see his response. Be sure to leave your full name.....

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by PanJet

First of all, I believe meritflyer already outlined that you must report the incident to the FAA regardless of whether or not you're convicted.

False.

You only must report if there was an administrative action on your license. Some states revoke/suspend your license immediately, others i believe only do that when/if you are convicted.

In my own personal case, I had to report to the FAA because there was an administrative action on my license.

however, i was not convicted of DUI, thus I could truthfully and with clear conscience answer "no" if asked by an employer have I been convicted of DUI/alcohol offenses.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

False.

You only must report if there was an administrative action on your license. Some states revoke/suspend your license immediately, others i believe only do that when/if you are convicted.

In my own personal case, I had to report to the FAA because there was an administrative action on my license.

however, i was not convicted of DUI, thus I could truthfully and with clear conscience answer "no" if asked by an employer have I been convicted of DUI/alcohol offenses.

The reg reads -

You must file a written report the the FAA CASD "not later than 60 days after the motor vehicle action"

Reads pretty clear to me.

EDIT: But then again, I am not the FAA or the dreaded "Administrator", so I could be wrong.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by PanJet

All that said, my opinion of people is not based on their mistakes, but rather what they do with them. If you own up to your mistake, take the responsibility that is now due you, then I'd be happy to see you learn from your mistake and be able to keep your job.

but also keep in mind, theres no reason for this guy to make the consequences any worse than neccessary. theres no "shame" in following the letter of the law very precisely.

hence why he is asking for advice/experience on a forum. he doesn't need a pistolwhipping.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

The reg reads -

You must file a written report the the FAA CASD "not later than 60 days after the motor vehicle action"

Reads pretty clear to me.

right but you must read further to determine what qualifies as a "motor vehicle action"

FAR 61.15 says that a pilot must report any alcohol or drug related
“motor vehicle action.” A “motor vehicle action” is:
(1) any conviction for a violation of federal or state law relating to the
operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated, impaired, or under the
influence of alcohol or drugs,
(2) the cancellation, suspension or revocation of a driver’s license
relative to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated, impaired or
under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or
(3) the denial of an application for a license by a state for a cause
relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated, impaired, or
under the influence or alcohol or drugs.

thus, if he is convicted, he must report.

if his license is cancelled, suspended or revoked (again, sometimes this is automatic, sometimes it is not) he must report.

if his license is NOT immediated cancelled, suspended, or revoked... i would most certainly wait to see if he is CONVICTED before i report anything.

[TXaviator]

here is some related information from a law office.

http://www.coolinglaw.com/MOTOR%20VE...OUND%20YOU.pdf

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by JEP

And when they ask why didn't you inform us earlier.....?

because in this wonderful country we are afforded by law a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

i, as a good American, choose to fully exercise that right.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

because in this wonderful country we are afforded by law a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

i, as a good American, choose to fully exercise that right.

Great,exercise that right. But he admitted he was drinking, admitted he was driving, and admitted he got arrested for DUI. He may eventually get the charge reduced and if he does, good for him. That doesn't change the fact that he should be up front with it, Convicted or Not......

Just suppose......

He goes to class, finishes IOE, and hits the line.

One week after that he gets his schedule but has to take time off to go to court.

Now he has to explain why he needs the day off to whomever.

And then he gets a conviction.....Now he has to report it to everyone.

I would venture the reaction will be severe. I would also bet he would have received a more favorable response had he been upfront in the beginning.

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

but also keep in mind, theres no reason for this guy to make the consequences any worse than neccessary. theres no "shame" in following the letter of the law very precisely.

hence why he is asking for advice/experience on a forum. he doesn't need a pistolwhipping.

Ever been to Sweden? Think you ever see drunk drivers on the road? No, because if you get caught once you lose your license for life. The "consequenses" of losing your job are fairly minor compared to that if you ask me.

Besides, I don't wish for it to be any worse for him, but I don't see any good in trying to hide it. You can't hide anything today. If anything, owning up to the mistake will make the consequenses better in the long run.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by JEP

Great,exercise that right. But he admitted he was drinking, admitted he was driving, and admitted he got arrested for DUI. He may eventually get the charge reduced and if he does, good for him. That doesn't change the fact that he should be up front with it, Convicted or Not......

by that logic, should someone who is arrested for murder, and later acquitted, be forced to go around saying "hey i am a murderer" before their day in court?

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by JEP

Just suppose......

He goes to class, finishes IOE, and hits the line.

One week after that he gets his schedule but has to take time off to go to court.

Now he has to explain why he needs the day off to whomever.

And then he gets a conviction.....Now he has to report it to everyone.

I would venture the reaction will be severe. I would also bet he would have received a more favorable response had he been upfront in the beginning.

i understand this line of reasoning better than the "he did something wrong so fess up" argument you put forth earlier.

at this point then he would have to discuss with his attorney and wager the odds of getting reduced vs disclosing voluntarily something that he MIGHT not have to.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by PanJet

Ever been to Sweden? Think you ever see drunk drivers on the road? No, because if you get caught once you lose your license for life. The "consequenses" of losing your job are fairly minor compared to that if you ask me.

apples to oranges. driving lifestyle is completely different in europe than in the states. in europe they figured out these cool ideas called public transit :-)

(tangent: if public transit in the states was better on a variety of levels, i think we would see less tragedy on the roads from drunk drivers. but thats a whooooole different scope of discuss)

[JEP]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

by that logic, should someone who is arrested for murder, and later acquitted, be forced to go around saying "hey i am a murderer" before their day in court?

Uh not really. He should be upfront and say he has to go to court for a murder trial and not worry about someone finding out later.

Has nothing to do with a conviction or not and everything to do with being upfront.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

apples to oranges. driving lifestyle is completely different in europe than in the states. in europe they figured out these cool ideas called public transit :-)

(tangent: if public transit in the states was better on a variety of levels, i think we would see less tragedy on the roads from drunk drivers. but thats a whooooole different scope of discuss)

I would think it is relevant considering you're talking about consequences for the same thing. My .02

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

by that logic, should someone who is arrested for murder, and later acquitted, be forced to go around saying "hey i am a murderer" before their day in court?

Uhhhhh, he's not saying that. Stop taking stuff to some off the wall extreme. Your comparing "Hey I gotta go to court for DUI" to "Hey I gotta go to court over killing somebody"

[bradj2000]

what numbers did you blow? or did you blow? My friend got pulled over and refused to blow so the cops took him to the station for a urine sample. An extra hour transpired and he peed a .075%
the D.A. did not press charges
Lucky Bastard, this same guy beat 4 speeding tickets in one month, yes one month. None of the cops ever showed up in court-automatic dismissal.

[DE727UPS]

Like Merit said, he doesn't need to get convicted. If you get arrested for DUI, you have to do the report, at least in my state. In Washington State, if you get arrested for over .08, they do an immediate administrative action that triggers the report. A good attorney should be able to plead you down to 1st degree neglient driving, depending on your BAC . That way you don't have to check the "convicted for DUI" square.

By all means, if you're attorney can find weaknesses in the arrest and find ways to contest it, then that's great. It might help you in the plea deal. Make sure your attorney knows how serious a DUI conviction is for a pilot's career. He might want to take it to trial but you might not want to risk it.

I'm not going to say one way or another what you should do as far as telling the airline. Maybe you could move your class date back for personal reasons and see how the whole thing plays out. I'd rather tell the airline I was guilty of neg driving than a DUI.