New US airline "Skybus" orders 65 A319s

[Timbuff10]

http://www.skybus.com/index.aspx

And according to their website they plan on putting 150 pax in these 319s. They claim that this will be more comfortable than a Regional Jet. Yikes! Is that even legal for the A319?

I wonder if these new "Skybus" planes will be equipped with a swinging stopsign?

Either way, it doesn't look good for the business as it looks like these will probably be some of the lowest paying jobs for flying equipment that large.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Either way, it doesn't look good for the business as it looks like these will probably be some of the lowest paying jobs for flying equipment that large.

based on what????

pretty wild claim to make with no supporting reasoning.

[jon1424]

A guy in revenue management from here already got lured away by them and now is in the process of moving to Columbus. Fairly gutsy move, but if they're succesful then it's probably the best move he could make!

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

based on what????

pretty wild claim to make with no supporting reasoning.

Apparently the Columbus local newspaper reported skybus CA's starting @ $85k. Word on the street is FO's in the $50's (a 60% spread is "normal").

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

based on what????

pretty wild claim to make with no supporting reasoning.

Yes, my mistake, maybe it will be great for the industry and they are going to have industry leading salaries across the board with their "really low fares".

I also like how they advertise on their website that they will have "on-time arrivals". Easy to say when you haven't made your first flight. I guess all the other airlines out there don't try and make it on-time and are fine with being late.

[alphaone]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Yes, my mistake, maybe it will be great for the industry and they are going to have industry leading salaries across the board with their "really low fares".

I also like how they advertise on their website that they will have "on-time arrivals". Easy to say when you haven't made your first flight. I guess all the other airlines out there don't try and make it on-time and are fine with being late.

zing!

[Timbuff10]

No no, no zing at all, just saying it seems pretty unlikely that this new startup will help the industry or pilots as a whole.

Hopefully I am wrong though!

[Chris_Ford]

SWA has low fares + high payrates....

/just sayin'
//you're probably right, however

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

SWA has low fares + high payrates....

/just sayin'
//you're probably right, however

I thought that too until I tried to book a flight on them. They were usually more expensive and not by just a little either, significantly more than other airlines.

Nothing wrong with that, it is just sometimes I don't understand why everyone thinks they are so cheap.

Yeah, maybe one row in the back got a $69 ticket but most of that flight is payin several hundred dollars for that same ticket.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

SWA has low fares + high payrates....

/just sayin'
//you're probably right, however

yeah SWA also jumped immediately to my mind, ive always had really great fares with them, and its my understanding their pay is upper-middle of the pack. true?

their profit margin (%) is also second to none (just based off the figures we were glancing over in class today)

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Nothing wrong with that, it is just sometimes I don't understand why everyone thinks they are so cheap.

Marketing. For the longest time, they WERE the cheapest. Now everyone just assumes, goes straight to SWA.com and flies them fat, dumb and happy. Not that I'm complaining about that since it directly affects my stock.

[MusketeerMan]

SWA is still the cheapest around...at least inside CA. We frequently fly from SMF to ONT for $29 and $39 each way...I can't even drive there for that amount!

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

SWA is still the cheapest around...at least inside CA. We frequently fly from SMF to ONT for $29 and $39 each way...I can't even drive there for that amount!

It may be different in other parts of the country (I'm in DFW) but the major difference between SWA and other carriers is not necessarily the ticket price, but the restrictions.

SWA's full-fare tickets are usually either the same price or slightly higher than the other carriers. The full-fares are completely changeable and refundable - to me, that flexibility is key. I buy full-fares on them all the time if I even suspect I need to go visit a customer. If it turns out I don't, or the cancel on me or reschedule at the last minute, I can change it, no charge, no hassle.

Can't do that for the same price with other carriers - if you compare full-fare tickets, SWA is often significantly cheaper.

Just my experience. YMMV.

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by killbilly

It may be different in other parts of the country (I'm in DFW) but the major difference between SWA and other carriers is not necessarily the ticket price, but the restrictions.

SWA's full-fare tickets are usually either the same price or slightly higher than the other carriers. The full-fares are completely changeable and refundable - to me, that flexibility is key. I buy full-fares on them all the time if I even suspect I need to go visit a customer. If it turns out I don't, or the cancel on me or reschedule at the last minute, I can change it, no charge, no hassle.

Can't do that for the same price with other carriers - if you compare full-fare tickets, SWA is often significantly cheaper.

Just my experience. YMMV.

That's true...but SWA does make it fairly easy to cancel your tickets, even if you've purchased the "cheap seats". You won't get refunded, but the credit is good for up to a year and can be sold/given to anybody else as well with no penalty. We usually fly with them last minute anyways, so we never see full fare. To go from NorCal to SoCal the full fare rate would be a little over $100 each way...

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

SWA is still the cheapest around...at least inside CA. We frequently fly from SMF to ONT for $29 and $39 each way...I can't even drive there for that amount!

The trick to that is there are limited seats at that price. The closer it gets to the departure, the less likely fares will be left in that "bucket."

SWA's full-fare tickets are usually either the same price or slightly higher than the other carriers. The full-fares are completely changeable and refundable - to me, that flexibility is key. I buy full-fares on them all the time if I even suspect I need to go visit a customer. If it turns out I don't, or the cancel on me or reschedule at the last minute, I can change it, no charge, no hassle.

That's something a LOT of people don't pay attention to. The easy refund (or actually credit) that SWA gives has more or less always been around. The transferability to another passenger must be a new thing. That wasn't a practice when I was there. I think this is something that some of the other airlines can adopt that won't cost them much but will do wonders towards passenger retention. Right now, I think some airlines are charging as much as $100 just to change your flight to the next day with a 48 hour advance notice unless you buy a full fare ticket.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

That's something a LOT of people don't pay attention to. The easy refund (or actually credit) that SWA gives has more or less always been around. The transferability to another passenger must be a new thing. That wasn't a practice when I was there. I think this is something that some of the other airlines can adopt that won't cost them much but will do wonders towards passenger retention. Right now, I think some airlines are charging as much as $100 just to change your flight to the next day with a 48 hour advance notice unless you buy a full fare ticket.

I think he is referring to the Full fare tickets. They are fully refundable, from what i understand. I have bought the 39 dollar specials, and swa is so good and giving you credit, no hassle, no fees. It does go a long way. but yeah, i think the expensive 299/399 tickets are fully refundable.

[skydog]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

http://www.skybus.com/index.aspx

AEither way, it doesn't look good for the business as it looks like these will probably be some of the lowest paying jobs for flying equipment that large.

Only if they can get people to work for them

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

yeah SWA also jumped immediately to my mind, ive always had really great fares with them, and its my understanding their pay is upper-middle of the pack. true?

their profit margin (%) is also second to none (just based off the figures we were glancing over in class today)

Warning - this forum is NOT SWA-friendly . . . alot of jealousy!!

[Ducking For Cover]

[meritflyer]

Run by fruiting!

[slinging a grape fruit at you]

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Run by fruiting!

[slinging a grape fruit at you]

Splat!

Hey, you misquoted me up there, making it look like I don't know how to spell the word "either"? I am sure there are already enough grammar and puncuation errors in my stuff, you gotta at least give me the stuff I do right

As far as southwest goes, don't they pretty much short every other employee group and give them the lowest wages out there so the pilots can be slightly above average pilot pay? Is it a case of the pilot's union there being way better than the ramper's/FA's/gate agaent's/mechanic's unions?

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by skydog

Only if they can get people to work for them

For some reason I doubt if this will be a problem.

[averyrm]

Just thinkin' 85k/50k ain't too bad for first year ca/fo pay. I'd wait to judge them until the actual pay scales come out.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by blee256

I think he is referring to the Full fare tickets. They are fully refundable, from what i understand. I have bought the 39 dollar specials, and swa is so good and giving you credit, no hassle, no fees. It does go a long way. but yeah, i think the expensive 299/399 tickets are fully refundable.

Just to be clear, if you have a $39 ticket and want to make a change SWA will REQUIRE you to upgrade to full fare to do it. I'm not sure about their standby rules.

Full-fare tickets are fully refundable.

And yes - United just charged me $100 change fee plus a $360 fare difference to move my trip to NY from Monday to tomorrow.

I cringed. But I paid.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

As far as southwest goes, don't they pretty much short every other employee group and give them the lowest wages out there so the pilots can be slightly above average pilot pay?

SWA pay:
F/O
1st year 52, 2nd year 88, max out at 131/hr

Capt 1st year 174/hr, 2nd year 176/hr, top out at 198/hr.

Slightly above average?

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Just to be clear, if you have a $39 ticket and want to make a change SWA will REQUIRE you to upgrade to full fare to do it. I'm not sure about their standby rules.

Full-fare tickets are fully refundable.

And yes - United just charged me $100 change fee plus a $360 fare difference to move my trip to NY from Monday to tomorrow.

I cringed. But I paid.

That's not "quite" true. Sure, if you happen to be at the airport and need to change your flight, they will make you pay fullfare, but that's expected. We've frequently changed our flights a week out or less..jumped online, found a $79 fare to ONT, cancelled our cheap fare and used that credit towards the new ticket. The process SWA uses is the easiest out there.