Unions are stupid... Mesaba screwed

[Timbuff10]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061023/mesaba_labor.html?.v=3



AP
Judge Blocks Threatened Strike at Mesaba
Monday October 23, 11:52 pm ET
By Joshua Freed, AP Business Writer
Bankruptcy Judge Blocks Strike by Unions at Mesaba Aviation, a Feeder for Northwest Airlines


MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- A bankruptcy judge on Monday blocked a strike by unions at Mesaba Aviation Inc., clearing the way for the feeder for Northwest Airlines Corp. to impose pay cuts later this week.
Mesaba, which has been reorganizing under bankruptcy protection for a year, had said a strike would probably put it out of business.


On Monday, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Gregory Kishel agreed.


So I think Skywest has it right. Let your company be good to you on their own and keep that percentage you pay to the union.

[meritflyer]

Cant wait to see what good old Don (DE727UPS) has to say about your post.

<ducks for cover>

[Doug Taylor]

Last I checked there was a) an in-house union at Skywest, b) an active national union drive and c) if they were in bankruptcy, there wouldn't even be a court case, pay provisions would have been imposed day one with no resistance.

A union can't change a judges ruling. Hang tight, be patient and follow the story line.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Burn it down!!!

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Cant wait to see what good old Don (DE727UPS) has to say about your post.

<ducks for cover>

I think unions do have their place, but it sure as hell isn't working for Mesaba right now.

[Doug Taylor]

So I ask again, without a union where would Mesaba be now? Lucrative contract?

[Timbuff10]

Well, let me rephrase that, they seem to not help at regionals... Majors I will give it to you, gotta have a Union there but man it just seems like these guys are getting screwed and their only hope was a union that can't legally help them?

If they all decided to strike anyway, then what? Jail? Fines?

Not trying to stir the pot, just posting in frustration for those guys.

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

So I ask again, without a union where would Mesaba be now? Lucrative contract?

Probably in the same neighborhood they are now but instead of paying so much out of every check to a union they now get to keep that and supersize their meals.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Well, let me rephrase that, they seem to not help at regionals... Majors I will give it to you, gotta have a Union there but man it just seems like these guys are getting screwed and their only hope was a union that can't legally help them?

If they all decided to strike anyway, then what? Jail? Fines?

Not trying to stir the pot, just posting in frustration for those guys.

I doubt they would get thrown in jail. But if that was the case they could always just quit. No fear of retribution then. Mesaba doesn't sound much like a fun place to work right now anyway...

[GaTechKid]

A union can't prevent a holding company from being created to suck the money right out of an airline that is guaranteed to be profitable. The judge's ruling sucks and I wish the best for the Mesaba employees.

[DE727UPS]

Let your company be good to you on their own? Does anyone really believe that? Man...that's funny....

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by GaTechKid

A union can't prevent a holding company from being created to suck the money right out of an airline that is guaranteed to be profitable. The judge's ruling sucks and I wish the best for the Mesaba employees.

Circle gets a square!

Here's the trick. No unions, you can wake up tomorrow morning with no work rules and a massive uncontestable pay cut in the bankruptcy process.

At least with collective bargaining, you have somewhat of a fighting chance as a system is in place to try to get some of it back when the company no longer has the 'bankruptcy profiteering' card to play.

Remember, management loves #### like this. A new generation of anti-labor regional pilots. The RAA just called housekeeping for a fresh set of hand towels when they read this thread, trust me!

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Let your company be good to you on their own? Does anyone really believe that? Man...that's funny....

One can dream...

Actually when I was at Frontier our work group was not union and we actually did better than most other work groups that had unions. The company's line was, we would rather have happy employees than employees that need a union to fight for them. They tried to keep our pay and stuff above average so we wouldn't want to bring in the unions. It worked there in that instance but Frontier is not like most airlines from what I have seen.

[surreal1221]

Have to love that Ch. 11 get out of everything free jail card these airlines are getting.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Have to love that Ch. 11 get out of everything free jail card these airlines are getting.

Unchecked bankruptcy profiteering!

Vote accordingly!

[surreal1221]

Screw the little guy!! Trying to support your family? Want to own property? Not from a well-to-do family? Ah too bad. . . but hey, please vote for us.

Red states are so special.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

So I think Skywest has it right. Let your company be good to you on their own and keep that percentage you pay to the union.

Why do people insist stuff like this is the the fault of the union? Skywest is a great company! But so is AWAC and Expressjet. Commutair's work rules are pretty crappy, as is mesa. There are good and bad union and non-union airlines.

Dont think skywest is as great as it is because its non union, its the way it is because of the threat of one.

And in Mesaba's case, if there was no ALPA, the company would have imposed its own terms a while back. It wouldnt have even had to file BK to do it. At least you had a fighting chance with ALPA. unfortunately the judge didnt see it that way.....and everyone on this message board and any other aviation messageboard knows its crap, that a judge can uphold one end of the RLA (management) but not the other.

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Screw the little guy!! Trying to support your family? Want to own property? Not from a well-to-do family? Ah too bad. . . but hey, please vote for us.

Red states are so special.

This has nothing to do with a Red State thing or a Blue state, this has to do with the airlines abusing the bankruptcy law, which they have been doing for years.

As for Mesa, the Bankruptcy Judge had to turn down the strike action by the Union, in fact, the Union should have never even suggested it.

What the Union should have done is allow the airline to do whatever was necessary to get out of bankruptcy court protection & then strike 1 minute past minute on the day of the exit.

People, start writing to members of Congress on how the airline are abusing bankruptcy court protection, once again, Democrats & Republicans.

[jtrain609]

I hate to sound like a jackass, but I don't care much about Mesaba at this point; I'm more concerned with the broader reaching implications that this ruling is going to have on other ALPA carriers. It sure as heck sucks for the Mesaba guys/gals, but this could suck a whole lot more if Delta tries to strike and a judge looks at this ruling as a precident.

[Doug Taylor]

Pengy-

I'm sorry bro. Love ya man, but re-read what you just wrote please.

Are you suggesting that when a company plays the BK card, that all labor simply roll over, give into ridiculous demands so the company can exit bankruptcy? The process is nowhere that simple and there's a lot more in play than "give us some cash and we'll all survive".

I've got first hand experience as a pilot working for a bankrupt carrier and the last thing you want to do is roll over without a whimper.

Trust me. I'll tell you a lot more at NJC.

[Timbuff10]

Hey I know unions are usually a good thing and protect the employees more often than not but lately it seems that the employees are left out in the cold.

I guess about the same kinda deal as the general public thinking airplanes are unsafe after one goes down for the first time in a long time.

[jtrain609]

Aroo?

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Aroo?

I think I replied right after you did, but not in response to what you said so I adjusted my post!

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

This has nothing to do with a Red State thing or a Blue state, this has to do with the airlines abusing the bankruptcy law, which they have been doing for years.

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

People, start writing to members of Congress on how the airline are abusing bankruptcy court protection, once again, Democrats & Republicans.

isn't this kindof an oxymoron? of course the red and blue states make a difference because it's who you elect into congress that makes/adjusts the rules of our society..so i think they go hand in hand.. vote accordingly!

[jtrain609]

I was gonna say, I've had a few beers tonight but I didn't think I was THAT drunk to as be posting completely frog_flyeresque posts!