Entering a hold - parallel entry

[Dazzler]

After crossing the fix on a parallel entry to a hold, do you track outbound on the inbound course, or fly parallel to it on the non-holding side?

If you do the latter, do you apply a wind correction?

The textbooks I've seen advocate just flying parallel to the course, but today someone told me that you should backtrack on the inbound course, because what if you had a monster crosswind - you wouldn't want to drift too far into the non-holding side.

[averyrm]

I'd track the inbound course, it's a heck of a lot easier. Plus then you're sure not to be on the unprotected side.

[turbojet28]

Keep in mind that I am not quite yet instrument rated (but very close), but I've always been taught to backtrack the inbound course. Just make sure you keep your head in the game as far as reverse sensing and what is in/what you should be turning into the OBS once you make the turn inbound.

Another question for parallel entries: how much of an intercept angle do you guys put in when coming around to intercept the inbound course? I've been using about 60 deg. give or take in my training, but just wondering what everyone else does? Is there a standard that I'm just grossly overlooking?

[averyrm]

I usually use 45deg. For entering a hold though, you can do any type of entry however you want, so long as you remain within the protected airspace. So 60 deg is fine.

[towhook]

How would you fly parallel to the inbound course with wind?

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Dazzler

The textbooks I've seen advocate just flying parallel to the course, but today someone told me that you should backtrack on the inbound course, because what if you had a monster crosswind - you wouldn't want to drift too far into the non-holding side.

The contours of protected airspace contemplate that in a parallel entry you will end up on the non-holding side - consider a parallel entry from the east for a standard hold south of a VOR on the 180° radial.

So the texts talk about simply flying parallel instead of intercepting the outbound. But, most pilots probably fly and most CFIs probably teach intercepting outbound for better situational awareness, as a way of figuring our the crosswinds in the holding pattern, the chance of the "monster" crosswind, and likely some other reasons.

[Airdale]

I cheat the course away from the hold, meaning I will fly on the unprotected side with enough space to turn back in to intercept.

For example, if you were to hold on the 180 radial, right turns, and you were coming from the NE as MidlifeFlyer stated, then when crossing the fix I start by turning to heading 180 and wait for the needle to show my position. Then I would turn to the right about 10-15 degrees, so about heading 195-200 and get the needle full scale deflection. This makes for a nice left turn to intercept the inbound course. Almost like a teardrop entry in the opposite direction. As long as you maintain the published minimum altitude for the outbound PT, you're legal and safe. Just remember you can not descend to the inbound altitude or the holding altitude, until you have positive course guidance inbound. I was taught that way, but I teach my students both ways and let them decide which they prefer. In faster flying airplanes, I prefer to cheat the course away from the protected area to allow sufficient room to turn inbound. But ideally you want the needle to be *nearly* fully deflected but still showing positive guidance, that way a strong wind won't blow you out too far.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I cheat the course away from the hold, meaning I will fly on the unprotected side with enough space to turn back in to intercept.

Maneuvering on the non-protected side? Pretty sure I wouldn't recommend that technique.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by Dazzler

After crossing the fix on a parallel entry to a hold, do you track outbound on the inbound course, or fly parallel to it on the non-holding side?

Fly parallel. That's why it called "parallel". If you try to intercept the course, then that just makes your turn to intercept that much more difficult. When flown properly, your turn to intercept will first cross the course, then reintercept it from the other side.

<<If you do the latter, do you apply a wind correction?>>

Absolutely.

<<you wouldn't want to drift too far into the non-holding side.>>

No, you wouldn't, but you've got several miles of protected airspace. I seem to recall at least 3.5 miles, but I'd have to check my sources. You'd have to be holding in the jet stream to encounter a crosswind like that.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Maneuvering on the non-protected side? Pretty sure I wouldn't recommend that technique.

Thats how the examiner here recommends doing it. Granted you have to stay close, as stated in the previous post, somewhere in the range of 2-3 miles. But you are doing a parallel entry, so you should be paralleling the course, not flying on top of it.

[Flysher]

heres a question presented to me by a corporate pilot back when i was a CFI. He wanted to know exactly how much protection does a holding pattern allow for? My answer to him was the area covered by an aircraft doing a standard rate turn at the maximum holding airspeed for that altitude, and then plus a margin perhaps. I just made this up though out of my little dumb cfii head and I couldnt seem to find it anywhere at the time, so what do you all think?

With regards to the subject at hand, I fly parallel, not on the course. You gotta figure they built some slack in there cause no ones gonna do it perfectly, plus if your holding over a VOR on an airway then you have 4 miles either way anyway so I dont see the problem. As someone else said flying ON the course outbound just makes your inbound intercept that much hard.

Imagine having a wicked crosswind that would cause you to crab towards the non holding side on the outbound leg of the parallel entry. Now imagine the turn inbound to intercept, your gonna have that wind at your back now and have an even more difficult time intercepting the inbound since you got blown out that much further..

[SteveC]

Here is a link to the TERPS criteria for designing holding patterns:7130.3A

I still don't like the idea of flying away from the holding course on the non-protected side. The allowances in the TERPS are for cross-winds blowing the aircraft away from the course, and for equipment errors, but I sure can't find anything in there where the designers planned on a pilot adding another 10 to 15 degrees.

I'm just not a big fan of roll-your-own IFR procedures I guess. Old and no longer bold.

[B767Driver]

The airlines I've worked for...wanted you to track the holding radial outbound for the paralled entry. Also, this is what the FMS does. (Actually...most of the time I can't figure out what the FMS is doing during holding...even an instrument pilot in training displays more coherence to regiment than does the FMS.) The reason being is to ensure 1) ensure the flight remains in protected airspace and 2) to enhance situational awareness.

When I was a Part 61 CFI...I always taught to parallel the outbound course. I find it acceptable either way.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I sure can't find anything in there where the designers planned on a pilot adding another 10 to 15 degrees.

I agree. The turn should commence upon getting station passage and track the parallel course as closely as possible. For slow airplanes, it probably doesn't matter that much, but it's important to develop safe habits.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

The airlines I've worked for...wanted you to track the holding radial outbound for the paralled entry. Also, this is what the FMS does. (Actually...most of the time I can't figure out what the FMS is doing during holding...even an instrument pilot in training displays more coherence to regiment than does the FMS.) The reason being is to ensure 1) ensure the flight remains in protected airspace and 2) to enhance situational awareness.

When I was a Part 61 CFI...I always taught to parallel the outbound course. I find it acceptable either way.

That's interesting. I've heard other pilots complain of the MD11 FMS hold enteries, but I have never seen it deviate from exactly what the AIM calls for. A lot of pilots seem confused by the parallel entry. I don't recall whether it tracks the outbound radial, but I seem to recall it doesn't track the radial, just parallels it. TonyC has watched more of those in the sim than I have, though!

[B767Driver]

We have different variants of some type of Honeywell FMS. Bottom line...far as I can tell...the machine just maneuvers to the magenta line and takes whatever action is necessary to do just that.

[nosehair]

It depends....

If you're holding enroute, it doesn't really matter.

But if you are told to hold over an IAF which will become the FAF when cleared for the approach, you are probably being held because there is an airplane on the approach in front of you. It happens.

As soon as the airplane in front of you completes his approach, the controller is going to clear you.

If you are in the habit of tracking outbound on the inbound course, and you hear "Cleared for the approach", there you are, going the wrong way.

If you stay parallel and in a position to make the inbound turn intercepting the inbound course, you are in a position to continue across the fix as the FAF and continue the approach without another turn to get established.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by seagull

A lot of pilots seem confused by the parallel entry. I don't recall whether it tracks the outbound radial, but I seem to recall it doesn't track the radial, just parallels it.

The AIM only says to parallel the course. I have a couple of commercially produced texts (Modern Airmanship, etc) that suggest if the TAS is 180 or higher to intercept the holding radial outbound during the parallel entry to "avoid getting outside the maneuvering area."

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

No, you wouldn't, but you've got several miles of protected airspace. I seem to recall at least 3.5 miles, but I'd have to check my sources. You'd have to be holding in the jet stream to encounter a crosswind like that.

Funny you say that. I held going into KIAD last week at FL310 with the winds WSW at 130KTS.

[Dazzler]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

Funny you say that. I held going into KIAD last week at FL310 with the winds WSW at 130KTS.

Wow!

[Flysher]

Originally Posted by Dazzler

Wow!

That same day the winds at 5000 feet were around 96 knots at the highest I saw them.