Removing CWSUs from Enroute centers.

[surreal1221]

Ah, the smart as bricks FAA is at it again. . . they won't give controllers the technology to do the job better, or smarter. . . but they will take away a crucial safety tool. Go figure.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Doug Church

October 19, 2006 202/220.9802





CONTROLLERS ASK FAA TO REVERSE SAFETY-JEOPARDIZING DECISION TO REMOVE ON-SITE WEATHER SERVICE UNITS FROM EN ROUTE CENTERS



WASHINGTON – The Federal Aviation Administration is planning to eliminate on-site meteorologist positions – called a Center Weather Service Unit (CWSU) – at each of the 21 Air Route Traffic Control Centers across the United States, a decision that air traffic controllers warn would leave them without the ability to obtain and relay vital weather information in a timely manner to aircraft experiencing difficulty and would have an adverse effect on safety.



The FAA plans to contract with a commercial weather company to provide meteorological service from one remote centralized location. But NATCA believes this business decision would both degrade the margin of safety and fail to support a recent National Transportation Safety Board “Safety Alert” to Instrument Flight Rules pilots about the need to actively maintain awareness of severe weather along their route of flight. Specifically, the safety alert states, “The primary job of air traffic control is to keep IFR aircraft separated. When their workload permits, controllers are also required to provide additional services such as weather advisories, and, upon pilot request, suggested headings to avoid radar-displayed precipitation.”



The CWSUs were established by the FAA in 1978 as a result of a recommendation by the NTSB, which determined that one of the major contributing factors in a Southern Airways DC-9 crash in New Hope, Ga., on April 4, 1977 was that the FAA lacked the ability to disseminate hazardous weather information to flight crews in real time. The FAA contracted with the NWS to provide meteorologists to staff a newly established weather unit at each center.



“We share the view of the National Weather Service Employees Organization that the elimination of the CWSUs through centralization would be a major setback for aviation safety, with degraded service for en route traffic and elevated safety concerns for general aviation,” National Air Traffic Controllers Association President Patrick Forrey said. “There are numerous instances where lives have been saved by the rapid dissemination of accurate and timely weather information by CWSU personnel. These meteorologists have contributed immensely to aviation safety and we would like to see the FAA reverse its decision and maintain CWSU personnel at each of our centers.”



NATCA does not believe that weather information provided from a remote, centralized location, can be obtained at the same speed as that provided on-site by the CWSU. And in aviation, Forrey said, saving time means saving lives. “With CWSUs in the facility, controllers have the face-to-face ability to brief with CWSU personnel on items of interest with weather that changes minute-by-minute,” he said. “You don’t have to try and get someone on a phone or teleconference and wait to see items brought up on the computer screen in front of you. This takes time when you have a fast moving and changing environment. Therefore, we don’t want to see any changes to the current service until there is a way to make the delivery of critical weather information even faster than it is today so that the margin of safety is enhanced to its maximum level.”



The NWS meteorologists also conduct weather refresher training for all air traffic controllers, which significantly improves the controllers’ awareness of how and why hazardous weather conditions occur and how these conditions affect aircraft in flight. In addition the on-site meteorologists are right there to answer controller or even pilot questions regarding questionable weather observations when interpretation is needed immediately.”



Forrey added: “The meteorologists at one remote location will not have the experience and expertise gained after 28 years by the National Weather Service meteorologists for a particular area’s unique weather conditions.”



###

[mtsu_av8er]

Wow . . . I don't even know what to say.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Wow . . . I don't even know what to say.

Say good-bye to safe air travel, say hello to continued out sourcing of government positions to private sector. But then again, that's for another thread all together.

[MarkE]

Soon all ATC will be done in India. "Key the mic once for English, twice for Hindi."

[JaceTheAce]

Probably because they haven't determined that there was an accident prevented by the CWSU's, so they've elected to remove them.......until of course there is an accident resulting in the lack of CWSU's........in which case they'll spend even more money putting them back in.

Good job FAA! Always looking out for the pilot.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Say good-bye to safe air travel, say hello to continued out sourcing of government positions to private sector.

I personally, dont believe it will impact safety but I also dont agree with the current move.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Right now, FAs and CSRs at the gates are being trained to use "ATC Delays" as the cause of 99.999% of all future flight delays. That'll be up from 95% pre-CWSU removal

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I personally, dont believe it will impact safety but I also dont agree with the current move.

Come flying with me on a summer night across the midwest, trying to work through a line of level 5's and 6's. Then, you might change your mind.

[meritflyer]

You think planes are going to start falling out of the sky as a result of this move? I dont. But let me know how it works out for you.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

You think planes are going to start falling out of the sky as a result of this move?

No, but next time you fly a piston single that was built before you were born, think about how much you'd love to have some help from a guy sitting in a nice air conditioned building. I can't begin to count the number of times in the last 6 months that I've asked ATC for a picture of the weather simply because the radar function of my single KX-175B wasn't cooperating .

[Mahesh]

Actually I don't think with the current information available on his/her display, the en route controllers can't give you that much information anyway right?

There is a new concept in the works which will be implemented in the neart future called "System Wide Information Management" (SWIM). The whole architecture of the NAS will be changed to be service oriented (new buzz word). So things like weather data will be made available to ATC, airlines, flight decks etc. Data link is going to make a lot of information available to pilots which you could never dream of having. You will also be able to send a 4D trajectory (through your FMS) to ATC systems so they can do a much better job of rerouting if needed and keep planes apart.

The FAA has some really interesting plans. But for those to happen, changes to the way things are done currently will be needed and that makes people uncomfortable. It has to be done though. The current way of doing things is not going to be able to support traffic levels 15 years from now.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

You think planes are going to start falling out of the sky as a result of this move? I dont. But let me know how it works out for you.

I'm pretty sure planes aren't going to start falling out of the sky. That wasn't being questioned, though. You said:

I personally, dont believe it will impact safety . . .

Just because planes aren't falling out of the sky, doesn't mean that safety has not been impacted.

Take it from somebody that benefits from those radar vectors nightly . . .

[AlexF]

Originally Posted by MarkE

Soon all ATC will be done in India. "Key the mic once for English, twice for Hindi."

Almost there, before you know it, all of ATC will be in 3 distinct locations. One of them beneath a major fault line.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Just because planes aren't falling out of the sky, doesn't mean that safety has not been impacted.

Take it from somebody that benefits from those radar vectors nightly . . .

I am not taking one side or another here. My immediate thoughts are that there has been a technoligical advance in weather radar and detection systems since the implementation of CWSU 28 years ago.

Such a vast amount of weather stations may not be required anymore.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Take it from somebody that benefits from those radar vectors nightly . . .

ATC will still have a wx radar picture. That's not going away.

[greaper007]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

ATC will still have a wx radar picture. That's not going away.

Not to single you out wheelsup, but I think we've discussed before that different centers have different levels of wx radar technology (unless that situation has finally been fixed).

What I think this move will really effect is the ability to issue center wx advisories. After all, radar only shows the amount of precipitation, not the type of cloud coverage (cumulus, stratus etc.) Having one person issuing warnings for the entire country doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by greaper007

Not to single you out wheelsup, but I think we've discussed before that different centers have different levels of wx radar technology (unless that situation has finally been fixed).

I didn't know that; however this doesn't change my point. MTSU is upset and complained about getting vectors for storms and yet this has nothing to do with it. I was just pointing that out.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

MTSU is upset and complained about getting vectors for storms and yet this has nothing to do with it. I was just pointing that out.

From the quoted article:

The CWSUs were established by the FAA in 1978 as a result of a recommendation by the NTSB, which determined that one of the major contributing factors in a Southern Airways DC-9 crash in New Hope, Ga., on April 4, 1977 was that the FAA lacked the ability to disseminate hazardous weather information to flight crews in real time. The FAA contracted with the NWS to provide meteorologists to staff a newly established weather unit at each center.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

From the quoted article:

I have no doubt it the removal of these folks will have an adverse effect but it isn't the wx radar that is disappearing. ATC will still (workload permitting) be able to provide you this info.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Mahesh

Actually I don't think with the current information available on his/her display, the en route controllers can't give you that much information anyway right?

There is a new concept in the works which will be implemented in the neart future called "System Wide Information Management" (SWIM). The whole architecture of the NAS will be changed to be service oriented (new buzz word). So things like weather data will be made available to ATC, airlines, flight decks etc. Data link is going to make a lot of information available to pilots which you could never dream of having. You will also be able to send a 4D trajectory (through your FMS) to ATC systems so they can do a much better job of rerouting if needed and keep planes apart.

The FAA has some really interesting plans. But for those to happen, changes to the way things are done currently will be needed and that makes people uncomfortable. It has to be done though. The current way of doing things is not going to be able to support traffic levels 15 years from now.

You really have faith that SWIM will be implemented in any time frame? The FAA has dragged their fight with ADS-B, amongst other things. I wouldn't be surprised if we NEVER see SWIM before the NAS is privatized. Good riddance. You've drank the whole gallon of kool-aid. . . hopefully they won't refill it in any amount of time. . .otherwise it'll be a much larger battle.