Flying the B1900

[DMBinHBurg]

I know several of you fly the B1900 for Colgan and other carriers. I was curious how you feel about it's flying characteristics. How do you feel about flying without the autopilot? Is it that stable of an aircraft or do you wish for the autopilot? I feel like hand flying the in the Northeast during winter would be very challenging. What are your thoughts?

Todd

[Seggy]

I fly the Beech for Colgan. It is a dying breed with all of these RJs that are out there today. However, it has proven itself in a small market niche and will continue to do so for a few more years.

The Beech is a very stable plane to have to HAND fly around all day. Yeah the autopilot does your work for you in cruise, then you have to program it to shoot the approach, then you might click it off once they clear you for it. Try handflying for 8+ hours a day logging 7 or more hours of HARD IMC. Do I wish there is an autopilot in the thing. You bet! However, I am going to be 1000 times more of a stick and rudder type of guy in the long run from getting a few thousand hours in the Dolphin.

There is SO much more involved than just flying the airplane as a Beech crew. Especially in dealing with the PAX. When you are shooting an ILS approach into BOS others don't have to deal with someone standing in the doorway asking if were the bathroom is on the airplane. The Beech guys do. You freeze your a$$ off in the winter and sweat your a$$ off in the summer. You HAVE to stand outside the airplane when PAX are boarding and unboarding. So you have to deal with that and the 19 questions or more you might get asked. Beech FOs are the hardest working FOs out there in a 121 operation. Beech Captains are the hardest working Captains out there in a 121 operation.

99.999% of the mainline guys out there that were trained in the civilian fashion before Barbie Jets came out trained in the Metro, Jetstream, the Beech 99 or the E-110. You get a lot of respect from those guys when you get on a flight to jumpseat and they ask you "what you fly".

The actual flying is the most difficult out there as well. Beech guys have big brass ones (except those that are or came from Gulfstream )to fly in and out of the Mountains shooting NDBs, LOC Backcourse, DME Arches, VOR Arches, and the like. You are a two person crew and work together.

Hope this helps. Any other questions, don't hesitate to PM me or ask me in the thread!

[Hootie]

Easy turboprop to fly. My company flys them single pilot, sometimes without autopilot. I've ridden on a couple flights and have some "unlogged" time in it with no problems. Anybody who says handflying the thing is rough, are the same people who needed autoland on a piper arrow. No big mountains to hit in the northeast either. Go for it!!

[Kristie]

Doug loved flying the 1900's!! no, really...he's said that's one of the most fun planes to fly.

[falconvalley]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll have a chance to fly one. I hope to find out tomorrow. Same "Alma Mater" as Doug's.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by Hootie9750

Easy turboprop to fly. My company flys them single pilot, sometimes without autopilot. I've ridden on a couple flights and have some "unlogged" time in it with no problems. Anybody who says handflying the thing is rough, are the same people who needed autoland on a piper arrow. No big mountains to hit in the northeast either. Go for it!!

A lot of hard IMC you have to hit in Arizona. We go into BLF and BKW. BLF is the highest commercial airport East of the Mississippi. Of course nothing like those that Great Lakes has to deal with.

For me I hope I NEVER have to fly one single pilot. Glad your company guys do it, more balls than I have!

Great job taking from my post that I needed an autoland on a piper arrow. No I didn't say that, but I did say that if you have to HAND fly it all day in a weather system in the Northeast you will be tired at night, guess you wouldn't know though since you never got the chance to work here.

By the way, I wouldn't want to fly anything else at this point!

[falconvalley]

(Clears all innocent civilians and ducks for cover)

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll have a chance to fly one. I hope to find out tomorrow. Same "Alma Mater" as Doug's.

Skyway?

You're familiar with the Midwest RFP, right? And how their CEO (Rankin) left Skyway to come to Air Wisconsin? And how they are getting rid of the 1900's one by one?

[sorry to derail the "my airplane/airport/area of the country is harder so I'm better" flightinfo pissing match above]

[Doug Taylor]

I flew it for Skyway.

Originally Posted by DMBinHBurg

I was curious how you feel about it's flying characteristics.

Best handling aircraft ever.

How do you feel about flying without the autopilot?

Didn't need it. Very stable. Like flying a BMW with factory-fresh speed-rated Yokohama tires.

Is it that stable of an aircraft or do you wish for the autopilot?

Might have been easier to work on a crossword puzzle with an autopilot, but that's about it.

I feel like hand flying the in the Northeast during winter would be very challenging. What are your thoughts?

If you know what you're doing, it's very enjoyable. If you're a rookie newbie heavy on sim time and light on experience, it might have you for lunch.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Skyway?

You're familiar with the Midwest RFP, right? And how their CEO (Rankin) left Skyway to come to Air Wisconsin? And how they are getting rid of the 1900's one by one?

[sorry to derail the "my airplane/airport/area of the country is harder so I'm better" flightinfo pissing match above]

Yeah, I'm from this area and I have friends there, so I keep up with the latest. Before my interview I was very concerned, because I knew little about what their short versus long-term goals are.

After talking to people inside the company and outside the company and some people not even involved in part 121, I got the feeling that if the timing is ever good to interview in a situation like this, it would be now.

[citabriapilot]

"The Beech 1900 is like a big Beech 99. The Metroliner is like a small 737." - Unknown.

"The Beech 1900 was built by geniuses to be flown by idiots, the Metro was designed by idiots to be flown by geniuses." - Unknown.

Just ask Tinman...the 1900 is a girly plane!

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Seggy

A lot of hard IMC you have to hit in Arizona. We go into BLF and BKW. BLF is the highest commercial airport East of the Mississippi. Of course nothing like those that Great Lakes has to deal with.

For me I hope I NEVER have to fly one single pilot. Glad your company guys do it, more balls than I have!

Great job taking from my post that I needed an autoland on a piper arrow. No I didn't say that, but I did say that if you have to HAND fly it all day in a weather system in the Northeast you will be tired at night, guess you wouldn't know though since you never got the chance to work here.

By the way, I wouldn't want to fly anything else at this point!

Woah.....chill there buddy. When I was typing my response, nobody had posted anything, and so I guess we posted at the same time.
My post was more or less directed at somebody who might say "it's the hardest thing ever.....I just got out of IOE and I have 612.4 hours".
Nothing but respect for you guys....where's the love?

BTW we fly more than in Zona. Over 50% of my flight time at AMF has been TDY out of my bases system.
http://www.ameriflight.com/Misc/routemap.htm

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by Hootie9750

Woah.....chill there buddy. When I was typing my response, nobody had posted anything, and so I guess we posted at the same time.
My post was more or less directed at somebody who might say "it's the hardest thing ever.....I just got out of IOE and I have 612.4 hours".
Nothing but respect for you guys....where's the love?

BTW we fly more than in Zona. Over 50% of my flight time at AMF has been TDY out of my bases system.
http://www.ameriflight.com/Misc/routemap.htm

I'm sorry I thought it was directed at me. My BIG mistake. It is a stable platform, but like Doug said you have to watch out in it like any airplane.

The guys like yourself who do the single pilot night freight at places like AMF, I tip my hat to you and your fellow freight dawgs. Everything else is cake compared to what you guys do. You have the hardest jobs out there!

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by Hootie9750

No big mountains to hit in the northeast either. Go for it!!

Careful there, a 4,000' mtn will kill you just as easily as a 14,000' mountain if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Seggy

I'm sorry I thought it was directed at me. My BIG mistake. It is a stable platform, but like Doug said you have to watch out in it like any airplane.

No harm no foul, Cheers!

[doubleo6point9]

Originally Posted by DMBinHBurg

I know several of you fly the B1900 for Colgan and other carriers. I was curious how you feel about it's flying characteristics. How do you feel about flying without the autopilot? Is it that stable of an aircraft or do you wish for the autopilot? I feel like hand flying the in the Northeast during winter would be very challenging. What are your thoughts?

Todd

I'm currently flying the mighty beech luxury liner for Lakes. I've got about 1000 hours in the bird so far and it's definately the most enjoyable plane that i've flown. Alot of people say the 1900 flies alot like a bigger baron but I've never flown a baron so I can't really comment on that. I have flown a duchess however and in my opinion it flies alot like the bigger duchess. The only real difference is that it's just bigger and heavier on the controls.

As far as the autopilot goes, we don't have one. It's pretty easy to fly the 1900 without one but after an 8 leg day with 8 hours of block time I sure wish we did at times. Personally though, I don't mind not having an autopilot on the 1900. After spending this last winter hand flying the 1900 down to mins(down to 1800 rvr at times in DEN) I know it's definately made me a better pilot. And I mean that because it has not only improved my ability to fly the aircraft, but as an all around pilot as well(meaning my judgement, decision making processes, situational awareness, everything).

I'll tell you what though. As challenging as the flying can be at times, it's definately rewarding. And when you're new it can be very sobering to know that you're about to hand flying an approach in moderate turbulence and moderate icing all the way down to the nuts with mountains all around you. But tell ya what, once you're on the ground it's a hell of a thrill to know that you just did it. Then after that your initial nervousness dissappears and every approach becomes a challenge to improve upon the last regardless of whether it's an NDB, VOR or ILS approach. I know that Lakes doesn't pay the best(hell not even remotely close) and the work rules aren't the greatest, but I wouldn't give up my experience here for anything simply because of how much i've learned and the people I work with are some of the best in the industry.

Also, if any of you ever get the chance to jumpseat with us into Telluride, you should do it. That's when you'll see the 1900 really shine with an over the top approach. I'll try and post up some pictures just to give you an idea, but just imagine comming over the top of a 15000 ft peak and losing 5000 ft in less than 3 miles while setting up for a left or right downwind for the airport. It's a hell of a ride!

[doubleo6point9]

Approaching the north rim


Fully configured for landing and pushing the nose over 20 degrees


A nice view


A closer look at Telluride

[Seggy]

O yeah, prop levers forward on those I am sure!

Whats the longest leg you guys do in the 19hondo? Any of yours fitted with GPS?

[doubleo6point9]

Originally Posted by Seggy

O yeah, prop levers forward on those I am sure!

Whats the longest leg you guys do in the 19hondo? Any of yours fitted with GPS?

Our longest scheduled is about an hour and thirty five minutes. Though i've blocked 190 minutes once after having to hold forever with a crap load of vectors while comming into DEN.

Oh and nope, no GPS. Lakes is too cheap for that. All we got is the poor man's radar vector.

[Seggy]

One more questions I forgot to ask what about upgrades? You going soon?

Yeah looks like you and us have the same executive package, two VORs, a DME, and a WX Radar.

[doubleo6point9]

Upgrades have gone as quick as 6 months. I just upgraded this last September which was about 14 months for me.

[Seggy]

Congrats on the upgrade! Flying out in that part of the country is something I look forward to.

[doubleo6point9]

Hah yeah, we also got an ADF. Still got a few airports that we fly to that only have NBD approaches. State of the art 1980's technology I tell ya.

[doubleo6point9]

Thanks. Wish we had your captain's pay though. The Rockies are a great place to fly and the scenery is incredible. Beats the hell out of flying around Kansas all day that's for sure. How long are upgrades at Colgan running?

[av8rmsu]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Beech FOs are the hardest working FOs out there in a 121 operation. Beech Captains are the hardest working Captains out there in a 121 operation.

i could argue this....

9.8 hours with 16 legs...14 hours of duty...winter time...tons of cargo...all unimproved strips...all part 121 and all in the mighty Twin Otter


but my company is buying beech 1900s...looks like i'll be in a bumblebeech