Another Pilot Hangs Up His Wings....

[Doug Taylor]

I think what people have to realize is that the average American changes jobs AND career tracks several times. Aviation is not immune.

Do what you want to do and when you no longer want to do it, do something else.

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I think what people have to realize is that the average American changes jobs AND career tracks several times. Aviation is not immune.

Do what you want to do and when you no longer want to do it, do something else.

Very true, but i just have a feeling he'll come crawling back.

I thought of him as the typical ALL pilot type. He still wants to do it, but just isnt willing to make any more sacrifices...

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Bigey

Very true, but i just have a feeling he'll come crawling back.

I thought of him as the typical ALL pilot type. He still wants to do it, but just isnt willing to make any more sacrifices...

Sounds like he isn't willing to do it then...

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Sounds like he isn't willing to do it then...

Well we'll see.

He wants to be an airline pilot. Just whether or not he wants to duke it out a little bit longer.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Bigey

Well we'll see.

He wants to be an airline pilot. Just whether or not he wants to duke it out a little bit longer.

My point is that you're saying that he wants to be an airline pilot but is no longer willing to make any sacrifices.The two don't coexist.What happens if he gets furloughed or has to take a 50% pay cut,or his base is closed or his airlines flying gets taken away or 9/11 part deux occurs.

Sacrifice is part of the job,he can't have it both ways. What's the old saying about things most wanted being worth fighting for?

[Mariano]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I'm no boy I'ma man!!! Lol...so you're not getting a place with your Skymates alum?

Oh and I get weekends off as well!

Hey Max, you know that you can always stay at my place if you need to.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Mariano

Hey Max, you know that you can always stay at my place if you need to.

I don't know how to take that...lol!

[Mariano]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I don't know how to take that...lol!

(J/K)







Like a friendly invitation from an hospitalarian, fellow (heterosexual , non-curious ) JC member.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Mariano

(J/K)


Like a friendly invitation from an hospitalarian, fellow (heterosexual , non-curious ) JC member.

I know...I was just giving you a friendly tease!

[ready2fly]

Okay...so I haven't read all five pages of this thread, but I'll post my $0.02 and you can take it for whatever it's worth.

I'm going to be completely honest:

I've considered hanging it up myself more than once over the past couple of years during instructing, during training and even now.

"Why?" You ask.

1. The emotional/stressful toll it's taken on my family is almost beyond bareable sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's not all bad - there are many, many good days, but the bad ones are BAD.

2. The FINANCIAL toll it's taken on our family to get where I am now...to make less than half what I made in the "real world" has been incredibly taxing. (pun not intended).

Fortunately, my wife earned a huge raise right about the time I started instructing, so it wasn't completely horrible, but it didn't exactly balance out either.

3. There are WAY too many cry-babies in this industry! Not just at American Eagle, which has it's share of current and former employees who just CANNOT get over it....but, from the folks I've met who have "lived the dream" - the bitchers and moaners, while not in the majority per se, are the loudest voices.

That said - at current, I love the job!!!! . Easiest job I've ever had once training was over and that's testimony to how extremely good the training is here.

What it boils down to is a phrase a good buddy of mine once said and it still rings true:

"It ain't about the money....... it's about the money."

Having worked in the "real world" for 20 years and having made a livable wage....then stepping back... WAY back...and starting over...has been extremely difficult. And some times not so fun.

I'm like any other person. I want to be compensated well for what I do. Yet again, "what I do" (regional pilot) is still considered an "entry level" position even though we go through the same training that the folks at the majors do and are held to the same standards.

I did my research - a LOT of research - before I made the leap. I knew what I was getting in to. I knew about the low wages, the a-holes, the ups and downs.

But hear me on this: "knowing about" and "living" it are ENTIRELY two different things!!

If I was single, in my early 20's, with an apartment and a car payment - this would be a piece of cake.

But, for those of us with a family to support, a mortgage to pay, school loans, insurance, car payments, ... a life to live....etc., etc. this ain't easy.

And THAT is what makes it "no fun" at times.

With all the above out in the open now, for now, I'm staying where I am until something better (read "mo money" ) comes along.

The QOL, otherwise, is not so bad - but if you're used to making enough money to live comfortably and even put money in the bank - then I recommend you SERIOUSLY think about this career before making the leap.

That's just my $0.02 for now. Your mileage may vary....and probably does.

R2F

[LoadMasterC141]

Thanks for sharing your perspective dude. Helps "Wannabe's" like me alot.

[surreal1221]

Thanks for that insight ready2fly. Some true words of wisdom are in there.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

The QOL, otherwise, is not so bad - but if you're used to making enough money to live comfortably and even put money in the bank - then I recommend you SERIOUSLY think about this career before making the leap.
R2F

I think also, one needs to remember that moving to the left seat on an RJ does bring with it, a nice pay raise. Still not what it should be for the job, but defiantely livable. Sometimes we focus on the FO pay alone.

I think breaking into this career is definately easier if you are young, and single. Living on FO pay isn't bad if that is the case. Add a family into the mix, and you will definately struggle as a regional FO.

BUT, everybody has to start somewhere; including those in non-aviation career fields. I have friends who are graduating college, and getting starting salaries no more than a 2nd year FO. Starting over anywhere is going to involve sacrifice, and low pay for a few years.

[fender_jag]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

Okay...so I haven't read all five pages of this thread, but I'll post my $0.02 and you can take it for whatever it's worth.

I'm going to be completely honest:

I've considered hanging it up myself more than once over the past couple of years during instructing, during training and even now.

"Why?" You ask.

1. The emotional/stressful toll it's taken on my family is almost beyond bareable sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's not all bad - there are many, many good days, but the bad ones are BAD.

2. The FINANCIAL toll it's taken on our family to get where I am now...to make less than half what I made in the "real world" has been incredibly taxing. (pun not intended).

Fortunately, my wife earned a huge raise right about the time I started instructing, so it wasn't completely horrible, but it didn't exactly balance out either.

3. There are WAY too many cry-babies in this industry! Not just at American Eagle, which has it's share of current and former employees who just CANNOT get over it....but, from the folks I've met who have "lived the dream" - the bitchers and moaners, while not in the majority per se, are the loudest voices.

That said - at current, I love the job!!!! . Easiest job I've ever had once training was over and that's testimony to how extremely good the training is here.

What it boils down to is a phrase a good buddy of mine once said and it still rings true:

"It ain't about the money....... it's about the money."

Having worked in the "real world" for 20 years and having made a livable wage....then stepping back... WAY back...and starting over...has been extremely difficult. And some times not so fun.

I'm like any other person. I want to be compensated well for what I do. Yet again, "what I do" (regional pilot) is still considered an "entry level" position even though we go through the same training that the folks at the majors do and are held to the same standards.

I did my research - a LOT of research - before I made the leap. I knew what I was getting in to. I knew about the low wages, the a-holes, the ups and downs.

But hear me on this: "knowing about" and "living" it are ENTIRELY two different things!!

If I was single, in my early 20's, with an apartment and a car payment - this would be a piece of cake.

But, for those of us with a family to support, a mortgage to pay, school loans, insurance, car payments, ... a life to live....etc., etc. this ain't easy.

And THAT is what makes it "no fun" at times.

With all the above out in the open now, for now, I'm staying where I am until something better (read "mo money" ) comes along.

The QOL, otherwise, is not so bad - but if you're used to making enough money to live comfortably and even put money in the bank - then I recommend you SERIOUSLY think about this career before making the leap.

That's just my $0.02 for now. Your mileage may vary....and probably does.

R2F

Can I nominate this for "POTY" (post of the year?)
Excellent post.

[Fly4Pay]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Who's the best pilot you've ever seen?

Silly rabbit.... ME! (duuuuhhhhhhh)








<heh heh>

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Kristie

no, it's not fun... it's called "paying your dues and flying by the seat of your pants to do what you love and love what you do"... luckily, your fiance knows what you like to do best and is supportive.. as long as she's supportive, you've got everything running FOR you, not against you...

Doug and I have been there... i supported his butt for many (MANY) years with no return on my investment until AFTER he completed his goal of getting into a major...it takes longer now a days, the sacrifice seeming harder and longer but if you really like doing what your doing and you have a supportive woman/family/friends by your side then by god.. don't quit just because of the situation...work thru it and give her just rewards when you've gotten there!!

Thanks for the advice Kirstie. I understand is paying my dues, its just through this CFI job I meet a lot of airline and corporate pilots and everyone I talk to says its a great job but its a horrible career. I just talked to one corporate pilot that used to fly airline and he told me that if I value family life, do something else to pay the bills and enjoy flying as a hobby. I don't know what to do, I'm so torn between everything. I can't walk away from doing this full time, yet I constantly question whether or not I want the lifestyle. Tempting is a family business I could running in a few years which would bring in enough money to buy my own airplane. The reason I can't walk away yet, and haven't walked away, is because the thought of sitting in that cockpit at FL350 still makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. Its the time away from home that doesn't feel good.

But let me make it clear, I'll NEVER turn in my wings. Even if I decide to do something else professionally, you can bet I'll be taking to the sky for at least 10 hours a month. I will never ever stop flying, I was born to do it.

[ERJ-135]

Good! Everyone needs to chill out for a while. First question: How do we know what Skywest Probe was thinking when he decided to take off the wings? We don't and will never know unless he reply's to this board.

It reminds me of all the experts that have given their opinions on what Homer was thinking when he wrote the Greek Myths. It use to drive me crazy when the Prof talked about the hidden meaning of it all. How do we know? We can only guess based on what the experts agree on, and then it is still a hypothesis. The Prof that taught the Worlds Great Lit class really thought Greek Gods existed! Honest to God this is no B.S.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by ERJ-135

The Prof that taught the Worlds Great Lit class really thought Greek Gods existed! Honest to God this is no B.S.

Well, maybe they do!

Can you give any proof that they didn't exist, or for that matter, that they don't exist yet today?

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Sometimes we focus on the FO pay alone.

We sure do. Do bill collectors stop calling because of the wait till I become captain clause in debt collections? I could go on and on but I'm not at all trying to down anybody that flies professionally. Hell, I'd love to fly professionally myself. Some refuse to sacrifice for that specific reason, some can't sacrifice for that specific reason. Ya darn skippy in saying that people look at FO pay combined with the money and time for training.

Originally Posted by ChrisH

BUT, everybody has to start somewhere; including those in non-aviation career fields. I have friends who are graduating college, and getting starting salaries no more than a 2nd year FO. Starting over anywhere is going to involve sacrifice, and low pay for a few years.

Not true compadre. Yep everyone needs to work their way up, but depending on how you work it, market yourself, and the industry you choose to pursue pay jumps can be early and significant. I took a few courses in college, but at 19 I was making as much as some captains. Not including money I got from side work.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Sprint1000's tag line

"I got these brothas lookin at me like they chokin on a chicken bone"
"I'm hangin on like a hubcap in the fastlane"

Don't know where it came from, but it's funny!!

[Sprint100]

"I got these brothas lookin at me like they chokin on a chicken bone" compliments of the rapper Fabolous on his song 'Breathe'

"I'm hangin on like a hubcap in the fastlane" compliments of the rapper E-40 and his Yay area slanguistics (Note: E-40 was the first to say Fo shizzle my nizzle, but some other guy made it famous)

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

We sure do. Do bill collectors stop calling because of the wait till I become captain clause in debt collections? I could go on and on but I'm not at all trying to down anybody that flies professionally. Hell, I'd love to fly professionally myself. Some refuse to sacrifice for that specific reason, some can't sacrifice for that specific reason. Ya darn skippy in saying that people look at FO pay combined with the money and time for training.

Depending on ones situation, yes, sacrificing a few years on FO pay can be hard. For someone young, and single, it shouldn't be too hard.... someone trying to do it with a family, your looking at some difficulty. All I am saying, is that while FO pay isn't the greatest, it does get better. Regional captains, while they don't make enough for the job, do make good money, salary wise.

Not true compadre. Yep everyone needs to work their way up, but depending on how you work it, market yourself, and the industry you choose to pursue pay jumps can be early and significant. I took a few courses in college, but at 19 I was making as much as some captains. Not including money I got from side work.

This highly depends on the career field. The majority of career fields start in the $30-$40K range, out of college -- the same a FO can make, after first year. Many jobs top out, years later, at $70-$80K -- the same a typical 5-6 year regional CA can make. Only 10% of people will ever make $80K or more in their career. Of course some people make more, but it isn't nearly as prevelant as some people like to think. I recently saw a statistic that said the average salary in this country for someone with a bachelors degree is $65K, masters degree - $83K, and PhD - $103K. Good salaries, but not the $200K salaries some people seem to think it typical outside of aviation.

NOW, that being said, YES pilots are underpaid for the job they do, and YES they deserve more money. But it does help to realize that, at least as a captain, you aren't pulling in less than your average American.

I think pilots would be much more happy with the wages if the job of being a pilot was a 9-5 job that had you home every night.

[Joekster]

There has been a lot of slamming girlfriends in this post and I have to disagree with alot of it. If your girlfriend is trying to get you out of aviation constantly maybe there is a problem, but there is nothing wrong with leaving aviation because of the tolls on your significant other. I am over halfway through my training but if I think its going to work between myself and the girl I love, than I will be switching to ATC or aviation management. This is not because I am at all afraid of hardships, but because I would want to be there for her more than most jobs as a pilot would allow. Would she ever ask me to quit aviation? No. Is it my goal to be a professional pilot? Yes. But not at the expense of someone elses hardship. Like I have told her I would be happier working in ATC or management coming home everynight, Than I would be single and a professional pilot.
But thats just me and my goals, I am not gonna slam someone who feels different because people have different goals.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Joekster

There has been a lot of slamming girlfriends in this post and I have to disagree with alot of it. If your girlfriend is trying to get you out of aviation constantly maybe there is a problem, but there is nothing wrong with leaving aviation because of the tolls on your significant other. I am over halfway through my training but if I think its going to work between myself and the girl I love, than I will be switching to ATC or aviation management. This is not because I am at all afraid of hardships, but because I would want to be there for her more than most jobs as a pilot would allow. Would she ever ask me to quit aviation? No. Is it my goal to be a professional pilot? Yes. But not at the expense of someone elses hardship. Like I have told her I would be happier working in ATC or management coming home everynight, Than I would be single and a professional pilot.
But thats just me and my goals, I am not gonna slam someone who feels different because people have different goals.

Hey there are alot of ATC people out there on their thrid or fourth wife too...So just because you're home everynight as an ATC do