Deferred ajudication

[amckinnerney]

I have a question...Just tell me what you think. I dont believe in giving up in anything that is a dream. So, I will tell you alittle about my situation. I am 32 and will soon be looking for a job in the regionals. Five years ago I was sitting at a bar while I was in college between two people I didnt know very well. One guy tapped my on the shoulder and asked me to hand something to the guy to my right and I did. After the deed was done I realized I just handed that guy a small bag with cocaine. One year later I was indicted for deliver of a controlled substance. I took deferred Adj. Now my record shows that it was dismissed. The narcotics team that did this did the same thing to over 100 other students. I have since worked for three defense contractors and Microsoft. I have always been honest on apps about it. Deferred is not a conviction and that is what is on the FAA website says excludes you(a conviction). I know that there are stacks of resumes where the guys dont have anything. I dont wont to think this will completely hold me back. I wont to know what you guys think too. Please express your opinions...thanks

[meritflyer]

Uhhh...

[TexasFlyer]

I don't think many people here been in this situation, but I bet some have had some kind of drug related incident (beyond alcohol) in their background in the last 10 years. Not sure how many on here would openly admit it though. So here is my advice. Pick up the phone and call 5 Regional Airlines you are thinking about working for. Ask for their pilot recruiter. Keep calling until you get one on the phone. Then tell them you only need two minutes of thier time and tell them your situation. Ask them if you still qualify. They can't tell you if they'd hire you, but they can at least tell you if you "qualify" to possibly be hired. Then I just hope you get honest recruiters on the phone.

PS - In my opinion, you are probably okay. But you have to prove yourself and walk a very straight line from here on out. If you have anythng else on your record beyond this one incident, your track record then might be a problem. If this is your only offense ever, you are probably okay. But again, the only way to know is to get on the phone with those Regionals.

[C150J]

Originally Posted by amckinnerney

The narcotics team that did this did the same thing to over 100 other students.

What law enforcement agency?

[amckinnerney]

Texas flyer I think I am alright too. I will try and do what you suggested.

The law enforcement agencies is a local agency called the deep east texas narcotics task force. They a unit of the local sheirff's department. They actually got alot of critisim for that whole episode.

Well thanks guys!

[TXaviator]

if you are not convicted of the crime i dont possibly see how it could be used against you.

what in the #### happened to "innocent until proven guilty" in this country???

seems like now days all they need to do is ACCUSE you and you're permanently stained.

best of luck to you man, and F the PO-LEECE.

[SpiraMirabilis]

Heh, same agency behind this incident.

[Bandit_Driver]

What a crappy way to get busted. You probably should have fought it. I would spend some money and talk to an aviation attorney. AOPA Legal perhaps.

You also may want to look at getting it expunged from your record.

[Doug Taylor]

What does your actual criminal record say?

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

What does your actual criminal record say?

my understanding of deffered adjudication is they "postpone" making judgement until a later date, and then base the judgement on whether or not you have screwed up since then (ie - no same or similar convictions, arrests, etc until xyz date)

if you make it till then, the case is dismissed....

im totally armchair lawyering though.

[amckinnerney]

No No you are 100% right...My record shows an arrest and that the case was dismissed. Thats it really.

TXaviator - When this happened I had never been in trouble and didnt know how any of this crap worked. I definte believe that what happened to me should be illegal. However, some would say that law enforcement is more corrupt than the criminals...they know better.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

my understanding of deffered adjudication is they "postpone" making judgement until a later date, and then base the judgement on whether or not you have screwed up since then (ie - no same or similar convictions, arrests, etc until xyz date)

if you make it till then, the case is dismissed....

im totally armchair lawyering though.

That's a pretty good description of =some= forms of deferred adjudication. But not all. Whether a deferred adjudication is a conviction or is not a conviction depends on a combination of federal or state law (as applicable), procedural rules, the policies of individual prosecutos and judges, and what was actually worked out. There is no way to know whether amc was "convicted" or not without looking at the specific paperwork in his case.

[juskl]

Ok, I am a bit confused (which is normal but was it dismissed???? If it was than you shouldn't have to worry about claiming anything, unless they intend to refile the case... Moral of the story, get with an attorney and have it looked into, make sure you get all copies of the info with your case as far as both the court records go and the police reports (public info unless it is an ongoing case). That way you are not in the dark and a warrant ends up getting issued later where you didn't know about it.... Happens with the courts quite a bit actually.

If these guys were doing things as you said and you had no clue, then they should be held accountable.... however to the f...... the police comment.... well, walk in their shoes for a while.... generally things are different than you think (or are told by those who have had a run in with them). I am not saying that some officers are not bad... some are.... most are not and do it right every day. But one bad contact and you think that all Police are like the one that you dealt with... This could be used in many a context with the words insert here in various parts of the example........

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by juskl

I am not saying that some officers are not bad... some are.... most are not and do it right every day. But one bad contact and you think that all Police are like the one that you dealt with... This could be used in many a context with the words insert here in various parts of the example........

i know some alright cops too. the "real" cops who are out stopping crime, not the corrupt detectives and crap who set up garbage like this to incarcerate certain groups of people or generate revenue. so i will clarify, F-"those guys"

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by juskl

If it was than you shouldn't have to worry about claiming anything, unless they intend to refile the case...

That was the point of my previous post. There are deferrals that involve a conviction "today" even if the case eventually gets dismissed at the end of the deferral period. No way to tell which type without the papers being reviewed by a competent attorney.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Get a lawyer -- preferably one who is familiar with FAA/DHS security requirements -- and get his opinion as to whether this counts as a "conviction" or not in the jurisidiction where you were arrested. If it is not a conviction, just an arrest and dismissal, then you should have very little to worry about. Most companies will not use an arrest record against you (it raises all sorts of problems under state and federal law). On the other hand, if it is a "conviction," you might have a problem under the FAA/DHS criminal background screening requirements.

[mtsu_av8er]

Most of the cops I know (and I know quite a few of them) are on some serious power trips, and need to have their badges taken.

Crooked bastages . . .

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Most of the cops I know (and I know quite a few of them) are on some serious power trips, and need to have their badges taken.

Crooked bastages . . .

NJC Story time with Lloyd I can't wait!

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

i know some alright cops too. the "real" cops who are out stopping crime, not the corrupt detectives and crap who set up garbage like this to incarcerate certain groups of people or generate revenue. so i will clarify, F-"those guys"

There's a TON of police officers that have thrown away "serve and protect". They prefer "harrass and extort", which is obviously what was going on here.

[juskl]

Wow..... Very sorry you all feel that way. I guess in my years in Law Enforcement I saw things as very different. Generally the one's crying fowl the most were those that were screwing up the most. I am just curious as to how many actually have experience with this, or was it a case of you heard from a friend who had an experience. If you did have an acutal experience with a "crooked cop", than on behalf of those that I served with and any other LE Officer around, I appologize. Hopefully, you made a formal complaint with the departments Internal Affairs division and hired an attorney to right the wrong..... If not, for the sake of Law Enforcement everywhere, please do. Because how else will things change?????????

I was a Sergeant for six years. About 20 percent of all complaints called in by the public were valid. And most were for attitude issues (Officer having a bad day... (does happen being human an all))... or was a procedural issue.... Most complaints involved the public not liking the fact that their family member was put in handcuffs when arrested (Policy here and if the Officer had not put them in handcuffs, they would have been in trouble with the department... major officer safety issue) or that the officers had their guns drawn... (again Officer safety issue and the officers are following policy) I could go on, but the short of it was that most people make complaints because they do not like the police or because they do not like the way we did business and held them accountable.... Oh well.....

Fortunately, I can remember only a handful of times were things occured where the officer was acting in a criminal way..... They were fired and charged criminaly (as they damn well should have been). Neither I nor anyone that I worked with closely tollerated that kind of behavior.

Do me a favor and please, if given the opportunity, attend a citizens academy.... I know it sounds goofy, but it is actually a great way to get a better insight as to what the job requires of it's personnel, as well as the reason things are done the way they are. Maybe you will still not be fond of them and maybe things will change.... Just a thought..... But please make complaints if you feel wronged. Just make sure the complaints are valid.

[C150J]

Originally Posted by juskl

Wow..... Very sorry you all feel that way. I guess in my years in Law Enforcement I saw things as very different. Generally the one's crying fowl the most were those that were screwing up the most. I am just curious as to how many actually have experience with this, or was it a case of you heard from a friend who had an experience. If you did have an acutal experience with a "crooked cop", than on behalf of those that I served with and any other LE Officer around, I appologize. Hopefully, you made a formal complaint with the departments Internal Affairs division and hired an attorney to right the wrong..... If not, for the sake of Law Enforcement everywhere, please do. Because how else will things change?????????

I was a Sergeant for six years. About 20 percent of all complaints called in by the public were valid. And most were for attitude issues (Officer having a bad day... (does happen being human an all))... or was a procedural issue.... Most complaints involved the public not liking the fact that their family member was put in handcuffs when arrested (Policy here and if the Officer had not put them in handcuffs, they would have been in trouble with the department... major officer safety issue) or that the officers had their guns drawn... (again Officer safety issue and the officers are following policy) I could go on, but the short of it was that most people make complaints because they do not like the police or because they do not like the way we did business and held them accountable.... Oh well.....

Fortunately, I can remember only a handful of times were things occured where the officer was acting in a criminal way..... They were fired and charged criminaly (as they damn well should have been). Neither I nor anyone that I worked with closely tollerated that kind of behavior.

Do me a favor and please, if given the opportunity, attend a citizens academy.... I know it sounds goofy, but it is actually a great way to get a better insight as to what the job requires of it's personnel, as well as the reason things are done the way they are. Maybe you will still not be fond of them and maybe things will change.... Just a thought..... But please make complaints if you feel wronged. Just make sure the complaints are valid.

In addition, GOOD people deal with law enforcement so rarely that it is tempting to make one negative encounter a general opinion of all police officers. No one is denying that there are bad ones out there (low hiring standards in some respects combined by high attrition and growth lets some slip through the hiring cracks), and they truly do a disservice to those who do a great job. There is also a huge "file-drawer" effect that occurs with "cop stories." Most people will "file away" police contact that didn't elicit emotion, but are quick to remember both good and bad experiences with cops.

As Juskl said, a lot of the complaints usually arise from officer safety issues. For example, on a traffic stop, a subject exits the vehicle. The officer may yell at the person to get back in the car, which could be taken as a very rude statement. The officer had two choices though - yell at someone and temporarily hurt their feelings, or run the risk (however small it may be) of that person approaching them with a weapon. Juskl can tell you about a video that shows what happens when a cop is too lenient - the cop gets shot multiple times by a shotgun... I never want to hear that man's screams before he died again.

I am not defending what happened to the original poster, however. If what he says is true, shame on the task force (I googled it and saw that it was disbanded).


"There are a ton of pilots I know who leave their wedding vows at their base."
"Why should little planes fly at all, all they do is crash and kill people."
"I live near the airport and I'd like to see the airport shut down."

...I encourage people to consider all the pilot stereotypes. I can't tell you how many times I've been complained to about some issue or accused of being a reckless person because I fly - ludicrous if you're in this field, but maybe plausible from the outside looking in.

[SpiraMirabilis]

If I recall correctly most employment applications ask if you've ever been CHARGED with a felony -- or pleaded guilty or nolo contendere to one, which you may have even if it was dismissed later.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by amckinnerney

No No you are 100% right...My record shows an arrest and that the case was dismissed. Thats it really.

Well, if there's no conviction, then there's no crime committed. Are you 100 percent sure that it shows case dismissed and that's it, without any PBJ stuff?

Make sure. Because if it shows an arrest and a dismissed case, then you are innocent of a crime from a legal standpoint. You still are innocent until proven guilty!

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

If I recall correctly most employment applications ask if you've ever been CHARGED with a felony -- or pleaded guilty or nolo contendere to one, which you may have even if it was dismissed later.

The ones I've seen ask about CONVICTIONS. And they do for a very good reason. If you are found not guilty, then the crime never happened. O.J. Simpson, regardless of what we think, is considered innocent by the legal system. He can truthfully put down on his application that he has never been convicted of a crime.

The presumption of innocence is one of the most fundamental rights we have here in this country, notwithstanding the latest attempts by the Congress and the President to get rid of that right.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

If I recall correctly most employment applications ask if you've ever been CHARGED with a felony -- or pleaded guilty or nolo contendere to one, which you may have even if it was dismissed later.

i dont see how they could legally use that against you. i can CHARGE anyone i want with murder, rape, etc...let the accusations fly!!

in this wonderful country it is the burden of the accusor to PROVE beyond any doubt that the crime was committed.

simply accusing proves NOTHING.

seriously, where are the rights and values of this country going? :-(

[TXaviator]

juskl, just so you know, in my personal encounters with police they have ALWAYS been very very courteous, professional, and willing to work with me through the situation.

however i have been witness to some of the grossest and scariest abuses of power that i can possibly imagine.

ive seen these things with my own eyes. and they truely shook me to the bone regarding how this country really operates.