Lidle's final maneuver is focus in crash investigation

[triplec76]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

nothing can match the power of a clean windscreen, a yoke and a pilot who knows where the hell he is.

That's a really good point.

I guess I meant my statement more towards having the equipment in the aircraft for any situation/emergency. When I saw the statement...

"Some GA aircraft have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to much stuff out there for pilots starting out."

...I was thinking beyond the fundamentals of aviating.

[Doug Taylor]

Reminds me of a story when I had to bust a guy on his Instrument Compentency Check because he'd spend an inordinate amount of time playing with his digital engine monitor instead of reaching MDA, blowing altitudes and missing the LOC.

"The engine, the engine!"

"Altamonte Pass dingleberry! You're going to have a perfectly leaned engine at the crash site at ALTAM but the powerplant specialist from the NTSB is going to be proud."

To hell with the toys, fly the freeking airplane.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

To hell with the toys, fly the freeking airplane.

The avionics in the newer airplanes (light singles), IMO, create a comical paradox. They're all decked out with FMS & autopilot & the like...but put the freezing level below 3000' and you're ground bound if clouds are in the future.

[AngelFuree]

Glass cockpits are EXCELLENT for Situational Awareness, but should NEVER be relied on for initially learning SA because once you move into a plane that doesn't have the nice toys, then you're SOL. The technology is absolutely beneficial, but only when used by someone with experience and that can maintain the same level of SA with or without the toys. Though you guys might disagree with me, I think only pilots with adequate and quality experience should make the move to better toys. That's not to say that an inexperienced pilot shouldn't and could not learn on a glass cockpit, but mostly that the inexperienced pilot will become too dependant on the toys such that when in the absence of those toys, he/she will be in trouble.

[triplec76]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Glass cockpits are EXCELLENT for Situational Awareness, but should NEVER be relied on for initially learning SA because once you move into a plane that doesn't have the nice toys, then you're SOL. The technology is absolutely beneficial, but only when used by someone with experience and that can maintain the same level of SA with or without the toys. Though you guys might disagree with me, I think only pilots with adequate and quality experience should make the move to better toys. That's not to say that an inexperienced pilot shouldn't and could not learn on a glass cockpit, but mostly that the inexperienced pilot will become too dependant on the toys such that when in the absence of those toys, he/she will be in trouble.

I agree with this 100%, and don't know how anyone could disagree. If there is great SA technology out there, why in the hell would you not want it in your aircraft. I just don't understand. Making this statement does not imply that a pilot has no ability to fly by pilotage or dead reckoning. If anything, I would say that pilots who fly less would want more help in their cockpit for inadvertant situations. Not everyone flies 120 hours a month and has honed skills in every aspect of navigation.

[MFT1Air]

I agree with this 100%, and don't know how anyone could disagree. If there is great SA technology out there, why in the hell would you not want it in your aircraft. I just don't understand. Making this statement does not imply that a pilot has no ability to fly by pilotage or dead reckoning. If anything, I would say that pilots who fly less would want more help in their cockpit for inadvertant situations. Not everyone flies 120 hours a month and has honed skills in every aspect of navigation.

Who is going to be "regressing" from glass to steam as a standard? Seems as if it will be the other way around as a norm. I've been informed glass helps in better ascertaining situational awareness inside the cockpit moreso than steam. I can't personally attest to it, for I started steam, and I don't have enough experience to make a personal comparison, but the jist is to fly the airplane first and utilize whatever tools available to you most effectively. . .whatever those tools are.

[triplec76]

No one is regressing anywhere. There is just a debate about what is too much in terms of technology or "junk" as some would say, in the GA cockpit, and also a bit about reliance on instruments that do the work for you.

[kellwolf]

I'm still waiting to hear what work WX overlays and TIS do "for you" in solid IMC that you would be able to do without them......

Reliance on GPS and AP I can see, and I could see (and HAVE seen) getting lazy with TIS in VMC.

[triplec76]

Well....

I think it all boils down to what you are using it for and how you are using it. If you take the downloadable WX for face value while trying to sneak through small holes it isn't worth much since that delay exists. TIS in GA aircraft would be just like all of the other technological stuff in the airplane. It's not meant to be relied upon to the point you are just sitting there yanking your pud. They're supposed to be there as tools to help you, not do the work for you. TIS I think would be great in busier areas. I bet it's a real eye opener to how many aircraft you actually miss.

[kellwolf]

Agree, but in the case of the WX, it's nice to know where some of that heavy precip that Center never sees actually is before you hit it. I'd never recommend using it to penetrate small holes in a line. It's got at LEAST a 5 min delay, like you said.

[Bandit_Driver]

I feel that if one is going to learn to fly for a career they should learn on steam guages. I think if the schools all start teaching on glass the freight world and some airlines may start hurting for pilots.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

I feel that if one is going to learn to fly for a career they should learn on steam guages. I think if the schools all start teaching on glass the freight world and some airlines may start hurting for pilots.

I just dont understand why Garmin and Avidyne just dont make a steam guage screen to switch to for PPL instruction. I heard that Avidyne was working on it but it has been months since I have heard anything.

If SWA can do it with their 737s why can't Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, and others?

[aviatorrbt]

I think they will soon enough. They may even be experimenting with different types, but it's just not out yet. I know a lot of companies do that.

[triplec76]

Yeah, that would be a great idea. I don't know exactly how those things work, but maybe you could buy an add-on card like how you upload a new GPS database so that not everyone had to pay for that option.

[Bandit_Driver]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

If SWA can do it with their 737s why can't Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, and others?

MONEY

[cezzna]

You should use all of the available tools in the airplane to increase SA. That being said, I think a 152 has way too much for a newbie to be looking at. Your first 20 hrs. should be spent looking outside the airplane almost exclusively. Then the other stuff should be slowly introduced. All pilots should be taught to develop SA WITHOUT a moving map FIRST. If this skill isn't developed as a primary tool, the chance of it developing later is nil,(think doctors). VFR pilots should spend 85% of the time looking outside the cockpit, straight from the flight training handbook. This was lost a generation ago and it absolutely doesn't exist in the training enviornment now.