Multi Training: '72 Seneca I vs. '64 Baron A55

Alchemy · May 13th, 2003, 13:02

I just wrapped up my commercial single engine and am looking to do the multi add on. My flight school has one of each aircraft mentioned in the subject, and I am having a hard time deciding between the two.

The seneca rents for $140/hr abd the Baron $180/hr. I've been told the avionics layouts in both airplanes isn't that good (it seems that in most planes manufactured before 1970 they just stuck all the instruments whrever they would fit, without regard to things like instrument scan). The Baron has an HSI and Garmin GPS, but the database isn't current for IFR and the HSI hasn't been working that great.

In cruise, the Baron will do 180-190 knots and the Seneca only about 130-140 or so. The extra cruise speed of the Baron would be nice if I ever wanted to use it for personal trips, but I'm not sure it would worth the extra 1000 bucks or so to get my rating in it rathern than the seneca. Also, the seneca *might* be more forgiving to a beginner multi student because of its slower speeds and counter rotating props.

My CFI said it didn't matter to him which one I used, so I figured I'd ask on here if anyone has had experience in either of these aircraft, and if so, tell me your opinion. Thanks.

mrivc211 · May 13th, 2003, 13:09

Dude, theres no reason to pay more for the same thing. Go with the cheaper plane. Fly the more expensive one on someone elses dime. That is when your a CFI.

Alchemy · May 13th, 2003, 13:17

That's pretty much what I'm thinking mrivc21, but I've heard some bad stories about the old senecas and just wanted to fish around for opinions. More than likely I will be going with the seneca.

JJay · May 13th, 2003, 15:19

I think 1972 was the first model year for the Seneca.

Doug Taylor · May 13th, 2003, 15:27

Think of it like this.

A go around in that Baron is going to be about $45. A go around in the Seneca is going to run about $35.

Or,

If you do 15 hours of training, you'll save $600.

$600 almost 4 hours and 17 minutes of extra flight time in the Seneca.

Or an extraordinarily wild night in Las Vegas after you pass your multi-engine checkride!

Alchemy · May 13th, 2003, 15:31

Yeah you're right JJay, it looks like the first seneca deliveries didn't occur till 1971 http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=308

I guess it's a 72 or 73 model, since they came out with the Seneca II in 74. I'll go ahead and change that in my first post but you get credit for pointing that out.

pavelump · May 13th, 2003, 15:51

that garmin and HSI sure are nice for IFR stuff, but if you're just doing the commercial add on, who needs 'em.

Dave

BlueStreak · May 13th, 2003, 20:05

[ QUOTE ]
That's pretty much what I'm thinking mrivc21, but I've heard some bad stories about the old senecas and just wanted to fish around for opinions. More than likely I will be going with the seneca.

[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of things have you heard about the Senecas? Just wondering since that is the multi that I have access to eventually.

Happy Flying!

Alchemy · May 14th, 2003, 00:30

Nothing too specific, just that they were sluggish and didn't handle too well with one engine failed (then again, there aren't many recip twins that do, right?). Also specifically regarding the seneca I, the controls are not as refined and it just doesn't handle as well as later models. Then again, I have ZERO multi time so I don't really know what I'm talking about. Just fishing for opinions.

pavelump · May 14th, 2003, 04:53

well, at least you're honest!

Dave

ready2fly · May 14th, 2003, 08:17

Anybody heard anything about the Beech Travel Air? (specifically, how they handle, quirks, etc.) That's what I'll be doing my twin training in.

Doug Taylor · May 14th, 2003, 10:44

B-95 Travel Air!

I have about 50 hours in one of those. Great aircraft! Can outperform a duchess or a seminole and only has 180 horsepower.

Took some time to get used to the "Props/Throttle/Mixture" arrangement though.

ready2fly · May 14th, 2003, 11:49

[ QUOTE ]
Took some time to get used to the "Props/Throttle/Mixture" arrangement though.

[/ QUOTE ]
K - you've stumped me. Having zero time in twins..... is a Travel Air's throttle quadrant set up differently than other light twins?

Doug Taylor · May 14th, 2003, 11:56

Yup, on the left you have the prop control,throttle in the middle and mixture on the right.

ready2fly · May 14th, 2003, 12:05

[ QUOTE ]
Yup, on the left you have the prop control,throttle in the middle and mixture on the right.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's in the Travel Air. What are other twins throttle quadrants set up like?

Or am I TOTALLY not getting it?

Doug Taylor · May 14th, 2003, 12:10

Throttle-Prop-Mixture

ready2fly · May 14th, 2003, 12:19

Ahhhhhhh!

May 13th, 2003, 13:02	#1
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,845	Multi Training: \'72 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 I just wrapped up my commercial single engine and am looking to do the multi add on. My flight school has one of each aircraft mentioned in the subject, and I am having a hard time deciding between the two. The seneca rents for $140/hr abd the Baron $180/hr. I've been told the avionics layouts in both airplanes isn't that good (it seems that in most planes manufactured before 1970 they just stuck all the instruments whrever they would fit, without regard to things like instrument scan). The Baron has an HSI and Garmin GPS, but the database isn't current for IFR and the HSI hasn't been working that great. In cruise, the Baron will do 180-190 knots and the Seneca only about 130-140 or so. The extra cruise speed of the Baron would be nice if I ever wanted to use it for personal trips, but I'm not sure it would worth the extra 1000 bucks or so to get my rating in it rathern than the seneca. Also, the seneca might be more forgiving to a beginner multi student because of its slower speeds and counter rotating props. My CFI said it didn't matter to him which one I used, so I figured I'd ask on here if anyone has had experience in either of these aircraft, and if so, tell me your opinion. Thanks.

May 13th, 2003, 13:09	#2
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,061	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Dude, theres no reason to pay more for the same thing. Go with the cheaper plane. Fly the more expensive one on someone elses dime. That is when your a CFI.

May 13th, 2003, 13:17	#3
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,845	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 That's pretty much what I'm thinking mrivc21, but I've heard some bad stories about the old senecas and just wanted to fish around for opinions. More than likely I will be going with the seneca.

May 13th, 2003, 15:19	#4
JJay Newbie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 11	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 I think 1972 was the first model year for the Seneca.

May 13th, 2003, 15:27	#5
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Think of it like this. A go around in that Baron is going to be about $45. A go around in the Seneca is going to run about $35. Or, If you do 15 hours of training, you'll save $600. $600 almost 4 hours and 17 minutes of extra flight time in the Seneca. Or an extraordinarily wild night in Las Vegas after you pass your multi-engine checkride!

May 13th, 2003, 15:31	#6
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,845	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Yeah you're right JJay, it looks like the first seneca deliveries didn't occur till 1971 http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=308 I guess it's a 72 or 73 model, since they came out with the Seneca II in 74. I'll go ahead and change that in my first post but you get credit for pointing that out.

May 13th, 2003, 15:51	#7
pavelump Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 790	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 that garmin and HSI sure are nice for IFR stuff, but if you're just doing the commercial add on, who needs 'em. Dave

May 13th, 2003, 20:05	#8
BlueStreak Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MI Posts: 197	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 [ QUOTE ] That's pretty much what I'm thinking mrivc21, but I've heard some bad stories about the old senecas and just wanted to fish around for opinions. More than likely I will be going with the seneca. [/ QUOTE ] What kind of things have you heard about the Senecas? Just wondering since that is the multi that I have access to eventually. Happy Flying!

May 14th, 2003, 00:30	#9
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,845	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Nothing too specific, just that they were sluggish and didn't handle too well with one engine failed (then again, there aren't many recip twins that do, right?). Also specifically regarding the seneca I, the controls are not as refined and it just doesn't handle as well as later models. Then again, I have ZERO multi time so I don't really know what I'm talking about. Just fishing for opinions.

May 14th, 2003, 04:53	#10
pavelump Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 790	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 well, at least you're honest! Dave

May 14th, 2003, 08:17	#11
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,373	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Anybody heard anything about the Beech Travel Air? (specifically, how they handle, quirks, etc.) That's what I'll be doing my twin training in.

May 14th, 2003, 10:44	#12
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 B-95 Travel Air! I have about 50 hours in one of those. Great aircraft! Can outperform a duchess or a seminole and only has 180 horsepower. Took some time to get used to the "Props/Throttle/Mixture" arrangement though.

May 14th, 2003, 11:49	#13
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,373	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 [ QUOTE ] Took some time to get used to the "Props/Throttle/Mixture" arrangement though. [/ QUOTE ] K - you've stumped me. Having zero time in twins..... is a Travel Air's throttle quadrant set up differently than other light twins?

May 14th, 2003, 11:56	#14
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Yup, on the left you have the prop control,throttle in the middle and mixture on the right.

May 14th, 2003, 12:05	#15
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,373	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 [ QUOTE ] Yup, on the left you have the prop control,throttle in the middle and mixture on the right. [/ QUOTE ] That's in the Travel Air. What are other twins throttle quadrants set up like? Or am I TOTALLY not getting it?

May 14th, 2003, 12:10	#16
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Throttle-Prop-Mixture

May 14th, 2003, 12:19	#17
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,373	Re: Multi Training: \'69 Seneca I vs. \'64 Baron A55 Ahhhhhhh!

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