IFR Flight Plan for Check-ride?

[Ramsey]

Just got off the phone with a CFI and he thinks that I need to file an IFR flight plan when I go see a DPE next month for a check-ride.

For some reason I don't believe that to be that case. Anyone know if there is a requirement to file IFR for an IFR check-ride?

[Swen]

I vote no. At least I never did one. All you need to do is call up the controlling facility while vfr and ask for the practice approaches. Of course the DPE may be able to request that you file one.

[falconvalley]

I don't think I filed IFR for my checkride. In fact, my DPE played the role of approach controller. But I filed IFR for every training flight when I was a 135 freight pilot. Either way, it's not hard to file for a training flight.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Ramsey

Just got off the phone with a CFI and he thinks that I need to file an IFR flight plan when I go see a DPE next month for a check-ride.

For some reason I don't believe that to be that case. Anyone know if there is a requirement to file IFR for an IFR check-ride?

When you call your DE to set up the appointment ask them. If you are unable to ask, file the flightplan. It doesn't cost anything, and if you don't need it just don't pick up the clearance. If it isn't what the DE wanted, you can either refile or have the tower change it. But at least it'll be in the system.

Better to have done it if you aren't sure, IMO.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

It doesn't cost anything, and if you don't need it just don't pick up the clearance. . . Better to have done it if you aren't sure, IMO.

This is twice in one week, and it'll never happen again . . . but that's the truth. What's the harm? Doesn't hurt anything, and it's free. I've heard of examiners wanting flight plans. Like Falconvalley said, my company files IFR for all of out training flights, and as a CFI, I'd routinely file IFR when flying with instrument students . . . they need to be comfortable in the system!

[gomntwins]

I had to file for my ride. I'd definitely file. I wouldn't count on a VFR day for an IFR ride anyway.

[Dazzler]

My examiner told me to file, but to also tell them that we'd be cancelling at such-and-such Intersection.

[FLpilot]

You can't legally file IFR as PIC until after your checkride. While you are PIC during the checkride, you still aren't instrument rated (which is required to file IFR) until the DE passes you.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by FLpilot

You can't legally file IFR as PIC until after your checkride. While you are PIC during the checkride, you still aren't instrument rated (which is required to file IFR) until the DE passes you.

Make sure you use that explination when you tell off the DE !!! Man what I'd give to see that conversation!

[Dazzler]

Originally Posted by FLpilot

You can't legally file IFR as PIC until after your checkride. While you are PIC during the checkride, you still aren't instrument rated (which is required to file IFR) until the DE passes you.

File it under the name of your examiner, and put "Instrument Rating Flight Test" in the Remarks section of the flight plan.

[Ramsey]

Originally Posted by FLpilot

You can't legally file IFR as PIC until after your checkride. While you are PIC during the checkride, you still aren't instrument rated (which is required to file IFR) until the DE passes you.

That was exactly my point, but the CFI said it was mandatory. Here's the issue:

I'm training in Germany in a 172 that would be IFR certified in the states but because we are in Germany the plane is not legal because it does not have a DME with Harmonic Filtering (we use the GPS for DME). Also we are missing a second altimeter. I’m toying with the idea of having the DPE come to Germany but technically we can't even file IFR due to local laws.

I sent an email to the DPE... I'll let everyone know what he says.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by Ramsey

That was exactly my point, but the CFI said it was mandatory. Here's the issue:

I'm training in Germany in a 172 that would be IFR certified in the states but because we are in Germany the plane is not legal because it does not have a DME with Harmonic Filtering (we use the GPS for DME). Also we are missing a second altimeter. I’m toying with the idea of having the DPE come to Germany but technically we can't even file IFR due to local laws.

I sent an email to the DPE... I'll let everyone know what he says.

Ohhhh. ICAO. That's a whole 'nother ballgame. Double, triple check that you don't get the two different systems confused.

[Ramsey]

Yep – even though the plane is “November” registered we still have to follow ICAO and German Laws. Adds heaps to the costs as well.

A “normal” DME costs about $1000.00. A DME with harmonic filtering - just because Germany says so – roughly $5000.00.

The next step in March 2007?

Mode S and yet another $5000.00.

So I'm looking at 10k for avionics over the next 5 months.


This is where I plug the last surviving non-profit military flying club in Europe for donations...

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by FLpilot

You can't legally file IFR as PIC until after your checkride. While you are PIC during the checkride, you still aren't instrument rated (which is required to file IFR) until the DE passes you.

That same argument would mean that a student pilot who is not rated in the aircraft at all, cannot act as PIC on a Private checkride.

[ABP52380]

Was told to file one for mine - I put down it was a checkride in the remarks as well. We did all the approaches, holds etc and then he had me cancel do do the steep turns and such (as well as a DME arc he made up as we were flying along - that was fun).

[BrianNC]

I didn't have to file one for mine. DE played controller, read my clearance, etc.

[chrisdahut1]

The applicant is the PIC on any checkride, unless otherwise arranged with the examiner (good luck with that one).

61.47:
"(b) The examiner is not the pilot in command of the aircraft during the practical test...."

The applicant indeed is not properly qualified on the aircraft or rating being examined (otherwise why take a checkride other then re-current?). However, the regs specifically address the issue and exempt the applicant from having to be qualified.

As for filing a flight plan...it is not specifically required by the PTS, it's purely at the examiners discretion. Some may want you to file, others may not. If in doubt, call up and ask.


Disclaimer: This is my take on the regs. I've been out of the flight instructing scene for a little while now, and could be a little out of touch. I welcome any corrections.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by ABP52380

. . . (as well as a DME arc he made up as we were flying along - that was fun).

I used to do that with my students. We're flying along, and I'd tell them, "on this heading, join the Nashville 13 mile arc, and arc south - join and fly inbound on the 193 radial."

Really, it helps you understand the arc!

[montanapilot]

i know I'm stating the obivious but what if your checkride is in the clouds? Half of my ride was in IMC.

[Ramsey]

Originally Posted by flyguy

That same argument would mean that a student pilot who is not rated in the aircraft at all, cannot act as PIC on a Private checkride.

...however a student is allowed to file and fly VFR prior to geting a PPL.

[skyrunner1500]

Originally Posted by Ramsey

That was exactly my point, but the CFI said it was mandatory. Here's the issue:

I'm training in Germany in a 172 that would be IFR certified in the states but because we are in Germany the plane is not legal because it does not have a DME with Harmonic Filtering (we use the GPS for DME). Also we are missing a second altimeter. I’m toying with the idea of having the DPE come to Germany but technically we can't even file IFR due to local laws.

I sent an email to the DPE... I'll let everyone know what he says.

Yes, since you are doing the checkride in Germany, you have to file IFR for the ride. You are operating in their airspace and have to obey their ATC rules, even if you're flying a N-registered 172.

You can also put the examiner's name as PIC in field 19-C and your name in the space for 'who filed the flight plan'. Be sure to put IFR-checkride or something similiar in the remarks section(18: RMK/...), most controllers will try not to give you a hard time.

Be sure to check if you really need that special DME. We are also supposed to have a seperate DME in the aircraft (besides the mandatory RNAV-GPS, most have the 430s or 530s) and two altimeters. But I'm sure, there is no 'harmonic DME' required in Austria and we also fly our planes to Germany. I am also aware of the new Mode-S-Transponder requirement, but I don't think it will really come already in Spring of next year. Judging from the speed things happen in aviation in Europe, I would say it takes at least another 2-3 years.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Ramsey

Just got off the phone with a CFI and he thinks that I need to file an IFR flight plan when I go see a DPE next month for a check-ride.

For some reason I don't believe that to be that case. Anyone know if there is a requirement to file IFR for an IFR check-ride?

File it, activate it......then cancel at given intersection or point or time.

[kellwolf]

I had to file for mine, and the DE I used in TX had my students file as well. He always cancelled the flight plan after shooting the approaches. There are a lot of DEs out there that want to know you can file a flight plan. Believe me, I've seen plenty of IFR rated pilots that couldn't call 1800WXBRIEF and file without the AOPA flight planner to do it for them.

I used to teach arcs the same way Lloyd did. Had a few students say "Huh? You can DO that?" the first few times I did it. Same DE in TX would make up an arc as part of the checkride, too.

[DMBinHBurg]

I had to file a flight plan during my checkride and then activate it. I think we flew the route for about 20 mins then canceled.

T

[launchpad]

You do not have to file IFR for an IFR checkride. My instrument and ATP were both done under simulated instrument conditions (hood) under no vfr or ifr flight plan. If the laws in germany allow you to shoot approaches, etc. etc. in VFR conditions, then I would say you shouldn't have a problem.........each examiner will want something else. I'm pretty sure there are FAA designated examiners in Germany....maybe ask them.......