" . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan"

mtsu_av8er · October 12th, 2006, 01:40

Nancy Grace ROCKS!!!!!

TXaviator · October 12th, 2006, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Nancy Grace ROCKS!!!!!

b-b-b-b-b-b-but she looks out for the CHILDREN!

MQAAord · October 12th, 2006, 09:36

I accidentally had her on for 3 seconds (literally) last night, and in those 3 seconds she demanded to know why airplanes were allowed to fly so low over major cities, and why just anybody can get in an airplane and fly anywhere they want without any control.

OMG I wanted to bitch slap her.

Fox Xray · October 12th, 2006, 09:41

I will say this ... that may be the end of A/C being able to fly down the corridor of Manhattan VFR. Since 9/11 there has been a huge amount of pressure to shut it down but AOPA has been able to win the fight, and in fairness to the FAA they are of the opinion of leaving it open but this incident may be the nail in the coffin. Especially in an election year...

mikecweb · October 12th, 2006, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MQAAord

I accidentally had her on for 3 seconds (literally) last night, and in those 3 seconds she demanded to know why airplanes were allowed to fly so low over major cities, and why just anybody can get in an airplane and fly anywhere they want without any control.

OMG I wanted to bitch slap her.

Cat fight! wooohoooo lol

Swen · October 12th, 2006, 10:28

When GMA came on after the local news this morning they started babbling about GA planes and safety. Then I used my reflexes that would make a cat envious and flicked the TV off.....with the remote. I can no longer stand them talking babbling idiots, there's nothing useful or newsworthy about anything they say. I should turn Amish...

JayAre · October 12th, 2006, 11:08

yeah i caught some of this #### from her. the local aviation expert was claiming the sr20 is a high performance airplane with design flaws and has to have a parchute because it has poor stall spin habits and he is suing cirrus oh yeah he is a lawyer and a jet pilot so he is an expert....im so fed up with this ########

slushie · October 12th, 2006, 11:46

pilot602 · October 12th, 2006, 11:50

The only thing that overcomes bad speech is more, good speech.

I.E. Turning off the TV and not reading articles a) puts you at a disadvantage in arguing what was said because you didn't see/hear/read it and b) burrying your head in the sand only allows the problem to get bigger c) if you truly hate whats being put out there write a letter to the editor, call the local TV station, e-mail the large news networks and correct them -

You'd be surprised at how much they'll listen.

TFaudree_ERAU · October 12th, 2006, 12:02

I wrote my local news paper when they reported on the Beech Sundowner that went down at ORF due to the open cockpit door. They wrote the article to make it sound as if every time a door opens in flight, it will cause a catastrophic structural failure and imminent crash. I explained that open doors are no more than a "situation" and that the reason for the crash is because of the pilots immersion in the "situation" and not on flying the plane. Combined with the close proximity to the ground, crashes occur.

No response from the editor or any amendment to the article.

mtsu_av8er · October 12th, 2006, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayAre

. . . the sr20 is a high performance airplane with design flaws and has to have a parchute because it has poor stall spin habits . . .

I've actually heard that there is truth to that . . . can't say for sure.

jtrain609 · October 12th, 2006, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayAre

yeah i caught some of this #### from her. the local aviation expert was claiming the sr20 is a high performance airplane with design flaws and has to have a parchute because it has poor stall spin habits and he is suing cirrus oh yeah he is a lawyer and a jet pilot so he is an expert....im so fed up with this ########

Actually that IS true. The thing has the chute because they couldn't get the thing out of any spins during testing. They lost at least one aircraft like that, and decided to go with the chute as opposed to having to redesign the whole aircraft. The BRS in that thing isn't so that rich guys that get into IMC can pull the chute (like I've seen it marketed), it's so that if you get into a spin you have a way out of it.

And it probably has poor stall characteristics too, judging by the type of wing that is on the thing (laminar flow, high performance thin wing). I've never been up close and personal with one but I'd bet that it's got a few stall strips on the thing to make sure that the nose drops before it stalls.

ComplexHiAv8r · October 12th, 2006, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

I've actually heard that there is truth to that . . . can't say for sure.

Besides the spin issue (and the parachute) I would be open to hear the design flaws as I am logging time in an SR20 1-3 times a week. Trying to learn here!

mtsu_av8er · October 12th, 2006, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

Besides the spin issue (and the parachute) I would be open to hear the design flaws as I am logging time in an SR20 1-3 times a week.

The spin issue IS the design flaw!

Well, that, and it's uglier than all get-out . . .

ComplexHiAv8r · October 12th, 2006, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

The spin issue IS the design flaw!

Well, that, and it's uglier than all get-out . . .

OK, I was thinking that there were other design flaws...also I wouldn't say ugly, not the prettiest aircraft lately, but have you looked at low end pipers lately?

Just make sure you DON'T get into a position to enter a spin!

Hootie · October 12th, 2006, 18:37

Sue Cirrus!! They should have never have made those deathtraps!

"sarcasm"....I hate lawyers.

SeanD · October 12th, 2006, 18:54

I really hate Nancy Grace. Not because she is a re-todd but its her voice that makes me nuts. I too would like to slap her face a few times. "Why do they UHH let these UHH planes drive down the river like that?"

MFT1Air · October 12th, 2006, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MQAAord

I accidentally had her on for 3 seconds (literally) last night, and in those 3 seconds she demanded to know why airplanes were allowed to fly so low over major cities, and why just anybody can get in an airplane and fly anywhere they want without any control.

OMG I wanted to bitch slap her.

Guys please! Rather than become emotional over the question, simply answer it directly.

Why are airplanes allowed to fly so low over major cities?

Because it's legal.
Most importantly, because it's safe.

Why can anybody get in an airplane and fly anywhere they want without any control?

Because it's legal.
Because it's safe. . .and if one had a certificate or a lick of common sense, one would know that and not have asked such a stupid question. . .Please remember that when one has an accident on the freeway, then ask the question to the public - why can anybody get in an automobile and drive anywhere they want without any control?

OK, so I got a little emotional.

N422NM · October 12th, 2006, 21:28

SR-20's and SR-22's have the stall characteristics of a pussy cat. They're very docile in the stall.

European certificated Cirrus aircraft are approved for spins however, and yes, you use the same recovery procedure.

We can't insulate people from being stupid and killing themselves on a daily basis. If this had been a normal Joe there wouldn't have been nearly as much made of it as has been. News media has spent the morning clogging our phone lines wanting a comment on what we thougt about flying over cities, etc...suggested that some of them should buy a copy of the FAR's and read them.

JayAre · October 12th, 2006, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Actually that IS true. The thing has the chute because they couldn't get the thing out of any spins during testing. They lost at least one aircraft like that, and decided to go with the chute as opposed to having to redesign the whole aircraft. The BRS in that thing isn't so that rich guys that get into IMC can pull the chute (like I've seen it marketed), it's so that if you get into a spin you have a way out of it.

And it probably has poor stall characteristics too, judging by the type of wing that is on the thing (laminar flow, high performance thin wing). I've never been up close and personal with one but I'd bet that it's got a few stall strips on the thing to make sure that the nose drops before it stalls.

ok im corrected is the wing different than the sr22 wing? ive only flown the sr22 and thought the stalls were very easy

ComplexHiAv8r · October 12th, 2006, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayAre

ok im corrected is the wing different than the sr22 wing? ive only flown the sr22 and thought the stalls were very easy

Yes, wings have 2 stall strips (SR20), I don't remember if the SR22 has the same or more.

SR20 Wingspan is 35'7"
SR22 Wingspan is 38'6"

N422NM · October 12th, 2006, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

Yes, wings have 2 stall strips (SR20), I don't remember if the SR22 has the same or more.

SR20 Wingspan is 35'7"
SR22 Wingspan is 38'6"

Same (2)

ananoman · October 13th, 2006, 00:21

People always make a big deal about the chute being used to get around spin recovery in the Cirrus, but I don't see what the big deal is. None of the twins we fly are required to recover from a spin and I don't see anyone refusing to fly one.

tonyw · October 13th, 2006, 01:30

It's kind of funny to listen to ESPN try to cover this. Jeremy Schaap, who is a good journalist, clearly is struggling to dumb things down enough for the audience.

For example, he was talking about how if Lidle was flying, his wife loses some money. On the other hand, if the instructor was flying, then Lidle's widow gets the money.

But Schaap had to explain that there are two sets of flight controls on the airplane. So he said something like, on this airplane, just like anyone, both the pilot and the copilot can fly the airplane with their own controls.

Doug Taylor · October 13th, 2006, 01:59

She's got "Irate Passenger at the Gate Demanding Monetary Compensation Because the Flight is 15 Minutes Late" voice.

October 12th, 2006, 01:40	#1
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,426	" . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" Nancy Grace ROCKS!!!!! __________________ ------- "Sadness bears no remedy for the problems in your life."

October 12th, 2006, 09:36	#3
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 8,908	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" I accidentally had her on for 3 seconds (literally) last night, and in those 3 seconds she demanded to know why airplanes were allowed to fly so low over major cities, and why just anybody can get in an airplane and fly anywhere they want without any control. OMG I wanted to bitch slap her. __________________ PPL SEL 100-ish hours TT Former American Airlines F/A (12 months) Former Simmons/Eagle F/A (6 years) Former Eagle ground school instructor (1 year) Former Eagle IOE instructor (3 years)

October 12th, 2006, 09:41	#4
Fox Xray ATC Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 404	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" I will say this ... that may be the end of A/C being able to fly down the corridor of Manhattan VFR. Since 9/11 there has been a huge amount of pressure to shut it down but AOPA has been able to win the fight, and in fairness to the FAA they are of the opinion of leaving it open but this incident may be the nail in the coffin. Especially in an election year...

October 12th, 2006, 10:28	#6
Swen Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,595	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" When GMA came on after the local news this morning they started babbling about GA planes and safety. Then I used my reflexes that would make a cat envious and flicked the TV off.....with the remote. I can no longer stand them talking babbling idiots, there's nothing useful or newsworthy about anything they say. I should turn Amish... __________________ "Who'd you give it to? Where's the meat?"

October 12th, 2006, 11:08	#7
JayAre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Multiple Posts: 988	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" yeah i caught some of this #### from her. the local aviation expert was claiming the sr20 is a high performance airplane with design flaws and has to have a parchute because it has poor stall spin habits and he is suing cirrus oh yeah he is a lawyer and a jet pilot so he is an expert....im so fed up with this ########

October 12th, 2006, 11:46	#8
slushie Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Vegas Posts: 1,984	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" yeah __________________ And she calls from the doorway "Stolen water is sweet, so lets drink it in the darkness if you know what I mean"

October 12th, 2006, 11:50	#9
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" The only thing that overcomes bad speech is more, good speech. I.E. Turning off the TV and not reading articles a) puts you at a disadvantage in arguing what was said because you didn't see/hear/read it and b) burrying your head in the sand only allows the problem to get bigger c) if you truly hate whats being put out there write a letter to the editor, call the local TV station, e-mail the large news networks and correct them - You'd be surprised at how much they'll listen. __________________ .......................... p i l o t 6 0 2 insert something witty, here

October 12th, 2006, 12:02	#10
TFaudree_ERAU Old Skool Join Date: May 2006 Location: Virginia is for Lovers, yacht chasing on the weekends Posts: 1,787	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" I wrote my local news paper when they reported on the Beech Sundowner that went down at ORF due to the open cockpit door. They wrote the article to make it sound as if every time a door opens in flight, it will cause a catastrophic structural failure and imminent crash. I explained that open doors are no more than a "situation" and that the reason for the crash is because of the pilots immersion in the "situation" and not on flying the plane. Combined with the close proximity to the ground, crashes occur. No response from the editor or any amendment to the article.

October 12th, 2006, 18:37	#16
Hootie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Zona Posts: 1,166	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" Sue Cirrus!! They should have never have made those deathtraps! "sarcasm"....I hate lawyers. __________________ Whatever happened to catching a good old fashioned passionate ass whooping?

October 12th, 2006, 18:54	#17
SeanD Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: KLAS Posts: 3,206	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" I really hate Nancy Grace. Not because she is a re-todd but its her voice that makes me nuts. I too would like to slap her face a few times. "Why do they UHH let these UHH planes drive down the river like that?" __________________ Electricity is really just organized lightning. George Carlin

October 12th, 2006, 21:28	#19
N422NM Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 36-44-28.5000N / 108-13-47.8000W Posts: 521	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" SR-20's and SR-22's have the stall characteristics of a pussy cat. They're very docile in the stall. European certificated Cirrus aircraft are approved for spins however, and yes, you use the same recovery procedure. We can't insulate people from being stupid and killing themselves on a daily basis. If this had been a normal Joe there wouldn't have been nearly as much made of it as has been. News media has spent the morning clogging our phone lines wanting a comment on what we thougt about flying over cities, etc...suggested that some of them should buy a copy of the FAR's and read them.

October 13th, 2006, 00:21	#23
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" People always make a big deal about the chute being used to get around spin recovery in the Cirrus, but I don't see what the big deal is. None of the twins we fly are required to recover from a spin and I don't see anyone refusing to fly one.

October 13th, 2006, 01:30	#24
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,198	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" It's kind of funny to listen to ESPN try to cover this. Jeremy Schaap, who is a good journalist, clearly is struggling to dumb things down enough for the audience. For example, he was talking about how if Lidle was flying, his wife loses some money. On the other hand, if the instructor was flying, then Lidle's widow gets the money. But Schaap had to explain that there are two sets of flight controls on the airplane. So he said something like, on this airplane, just like anyone, both the pilot and the copilot can fly the airplane with their own controls. __________________ http://www.photo.net/photos/tonywang for my photos

October 13th, 2006, 01:59	#25
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,931 Blog Entries: 1	Re: " . . . As Fire Rains Down Over Manhattan" She's got "Irate Passenger at the Gate Demanding Monetary Compensation Because the Flight is 15 Minutes Late" voice. __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

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