Comair bidding for Delta flying

Tim · October 2nd, 2006, 15:56

Comair to Submit Bid for Delta Service
Monday October 2, 3:42 pm ET
By Lisa Cornwell, Associated Press Writer
Comair to Submit Bid for Regional Jet Service From Its Parent Company, Delta Air Lines

CINCINNATI (AP) -- Comair said it will submit a bid for regional jet service from its parent, Delta Air Lines Inc., by Monday's deadline even though it has not reached deals on concessions with unions representing its flight attendants, pilots or mechanics.

The bid will reflect the restructuring Comair has completed in non-union areas and the savings it is forecasting for concessions from the unions for the flight attendants and mechanics, Comair spokeswoman Tressie Long said.

She said that the airline, based in nearby Erlanger, Ky., is nearing an agreement with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers representing Comair's 550 mechanics and is working with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters representing its 970 flight attendants to reach an agreement.

A bankruptcy judge has given Comair the authority to impose concessions. Comair will have no choice but to implement the changes if an agreement is not reached with flight attendants, Long said. The flight attendants have threatened to strike if concessions are imposed.

Little progress has been made in negotiations over the weekend with the Air Line Pilots Association representing Comair pilots, she said.

Like its Atlanta-based parent Delta, Comair, which has 6,500 employees and operates 882 flights daily to 103 cities, is reorganizing under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, for which it filed last year.

Am I missing something because wouldnt Delta be cutting its own throat by not giving the flying to Comair since they do affect the bottom line. But then again nothing that Delta does should suprise me.

Doug Taylor · October 2nd, 2006, 16:05

They're trying to force paycuts down the pilot and flight attendants throats by saying "Oh, your costs are too high and we're going to get underbid by competing airlines".

Sadly, what'll probably happen is that another regional will underbid Comair, they'll hire a bunch of pilots and we'll have some folks here screaming "OMG! GoJets2 is hiring! Woo! Anyone have the gouge? Look at the low mins!"

Bigey · October 2nd, 2006, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

They're trying to force paycuts down the pilot and flight attendants throats by saying "Oh, your costs are too high and we're going to get underbid by competing airlines".

Sadly, what'll probably happen is that another regional will underbid Comair, they'll hire a bunch of pilots and we'll have some folks here screaming "OMG! GoJets2 is hiring! Woo! Anyone have the gouge? Look at the low mins!"

Dear Dough,

I'm extremealey tyred of huring you talk smack on purfectly go0d MAJOR airlines. Why yuo hating? I'm trying to put food on the table by doing what i love!

OldTownPilot · October 2nd, 2006, 16:53

This whole DCI thing is rediculous with the undercutting.

Delta must really not like CMR, they reopened a crew base in MCO, then DL puts CHQ and then FRL in there. CMR starts a new crew base in JFK ... What does DL do? Throw FRL in there with shardy azz dash-8s that are about to fall apart. DCI as it stands right now is a discrace to the Delta brand.

Our afternoon turn to CVG just changed over to ASA in a historically CMR station to CMRs home. Our FFs on Sunday were prety peeved over it.

DE727UPS · October 2nd, 2006, 17:14

Don't forget...being owned by Delta means everything....

kellwolf · October 2nd, 2006, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

They're trying to force paycuts down the pilot and flight attendants throats by saying "Oh, your costs are too high and we're going to get underbid by competing airlines".

You'll get that line at an airline with the lowest CASM in a CRJ.. Trust me on that one...

PLANECOOK · October 2nd, 2006, 18:25

Well, you all have great responses, but you have to take into consideration that Delta is no necessarily the strongest carrier out there right now. I mean, look at the downfall of "Song", which was supposed to be the future of Delta. The point is that if a lower bid comes in for the Comair service I am pretty sure that Delta will untilize that bid.

The other poster did have a good point when he mentioned lower hire time for some other carrriers who honestly an find pilots anywhere and that the difference between a high bid and a low bid. It is just unfortunate that Delta has so many problems with flight crew, and mechanics.

I guess someone should do an industry analysis on there crew pay to the other "very profitable" low cost carriers and then decide whether a low bid will work of if another cash consuming higher bid is what is in the best interest of the company. No offense to the well paid Delta airlines pilot.

kellwolf · October 2nd, 2006, 18:32

Money isn't everything. If the lower bidding company provides shotty customer services, loses bags and is never on-time, it will wind up costing Delta MORE in the long run by covering comped tickets, drinks, etc, lost bag fees and overnight hotels or free flights. In this industry, a lot of times you get what you pay for....

OldTownPilot · October 2nd, 2006, 18:57

From my travels around the DL system I have flown through all of their hubs and all of the DCI carriers. If I was a paying passenger on Freedoms Dash-8s in JFK I would be appauled. ATL's DCI side is a joke, all handled by ASA. At our station we have 1 flight from ATL on ASA which brings in half of our missing bags out of 6 flights. Most of them originate in ATL.

You know its bad when the favored carriers (FRL, CHQ qnd ASA) have a completion factor around 93% and an A-14 of 50% and 3.5% of their bags are late. CMR and SKW are near 99%, 75% and 1% respectivly.

Delta let ASA get run down and now SKW is fixing their screwups and now CMR is loseing out. Maybe being sold off would be a good thing at this point.....

It used to be that the regionals had a good, lasting, relationship with their partner. (notice partner..no S) .... Not any more.

H46Bubba · October 2nd, 2006, 20:29

I feel Mesa/Freedom is going for the underbid. Mesa is currently preparing several CRJ-700's to enter service with United and will convert some more ERJ's from UA to DL. I heard that Mesa is also bidding for 70-76 seater DCI flying. I don't know if they are going to procure some a/c if awarded that. I know Embraer has been here courting Mesa to buy E-170 an E-190 a/c. The company isn't happy with Bombardiers support of the 900 and 700's Like I said before, the F8 operation in JFK is a joke. F8 leased the oldest Dash 8s around. F8's having to mod them with BETA, and adding a lot of AD's. Sourcing parts has been a nightmare due to the old age of the a/c. A spare ERJ has been moved up to JFK to cover, but can't cover all the flights. No F8 is handling a lot of lines out of ATL. It's a longistical nightmare! Who knows only time will tell.

wheelsup · October 2nd, 2006, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Money isn't everything. If the lower bidding company provides shotty customer services, loses bags and is never on-time, it will wind up costing Delta MORE in the long run by covering comped tickets, drinks, etc, lost bag fees and overnight hotels or free flights. In this industry, a lot of times you get what you pay for....

When united cut the tie with AWAC, it's estimated it cost the company (UAL) $150 - $200 million. $125 mil was the bond that AWAC held (and then used to purchase its 26% stake in US Air, how poetic) and the additional money is estimated for the restructing costs.

Skywest and Mesa are now doing the flying.

Keep in mind, bankrupt airline management defies logic.

Kingairer · October 3rd, 2006, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

From my travels around the DL system I have flown through all of their hubs and all of the DCI carriers. If I was a paying passenger on Freedoms Dash-8s in JFK I would be appauled. ATL's DCI side is a joke, all handled by ASA. At our station we have 1 flight from ATL on ASA which brings in half of our missing bags out of 6 flights. Most of them originate in ATL.

You know its bad when the favored carriers (FRL, CHQ qnd ASA) have a completion factor around 93% and an A-14 of 50% and 3.5% of their bags are late. CMR and SKW are near 99%, 75% and 1% respectivly.

Delta let ASA get run down and now SKW is fixing their screwups and now CMR is loseing out. Maybe being sold off would be a good thing at this point.....

It used to be that the regionals had a good, lasting, relationship with their partner. (notice partner..no S) .... Not any more.

CHQs completion factor is tpically 98.5-99.2 for delta, never 93.

fo4ever · October 3rd, 2006, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

DCI as it stands right now is a discrace to the Delta brand.

Agreed. Just try to connect in JFK.

Doug Taylor · October 3rd, 2006, 02:00

Well, that's 51% of that brand's flying now.

Now it's like walking into Subway and having a guy with a "Crazy Lou's Discount Sang'wiches" behind the counter making you a service station-quality sandwich.

But that's just about all I'll say about that!

killbilly · October 3rd, 2006, 09:24

Seems like starting an airplane-repainting service would be a good business right now...a la' the Pay N Spray from Grand Theft Auto.

Tim · October 3rd, 2006, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Money isn't everything. If the lower bidding company provides shotty customer services, loses bags and is never on-time, it will wind up costing Delta MORE in the long run by covering comped tickets, drinks, etc, lost bag fees and overnight hotels or free flights. In this industry, a lot of times you get what you pay for....

Steve all Delta has to do is look back to the mid 90's and 7.5 to see that shotty customer service will cost you in the long run. I can remember when going to move an airplane and it had been on the ground for over an hour and it was still full of transfer bags. Great way to control cost just dont deliver customer service

Someone mentioned to about the RJ coming in with missed bags. Here in ATL ASA ramp guys will wave you off if its less than 10 min to departure. So you could have 20 bags for that one flight and the passengers are there but the bags wont ride. Of course with the RJ you dont have much room anyway so if you do make it in time there is no guarantee that the bin will have room to hold the bags.

Bandit_Driver · October 3rd, 2006, 14:17

RJET's CURRENT NUMBERS as of 9-21-06

On-Time [A’14] & Completion Factor respectively

American 86.0% 99.4%
Delta 76.4% 99.0%
US Airways 71.9% 97.6%
United 76.0% 98.2%

Division results On-Time [A’14] & Completion Factor respectively

Chautauqua Airlines 77.0% 98.8%
Shuttle America 72.1% 98.7%
Republic Airlines 74.5% 96.1%
RJET System Total 75.5% 98.4%

Fleet results On-Time [A’14] & Completion Factor respectively

E135/140/145 77.0% 98.8%
E170 73.1% 97.7%

Tim · October 3rd, 2006, 14:52

How do those numbers compare to the rest of the DCI flyers? I am just wondering....
I know its weird to see the 170 parked at gates in ATL that were always just mainline

kellwolf · October 3rd, 2006, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Someone mentioned to about the RJ coming in with missed bags. Here in ATL ASA ramp guys will wave you off if its less than 10 min to departure. So you could have 20 bags for that one flight and the passengers are there but the bags wont ride. Of course with the RJ you dont have much room anyway so if you do make it in time there is no guarantee that the bin will have room to hold the bags.

Now, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. There's no reason to wave off a bag runner or transfer driver before the airplane has started the push. It takes two seconds to open the cargo door and toss a bag in. You can make the lost time up in the air, if not the taxi. As far as not fitting, if the rampers would actually stack the bags instead tossing them everywhere, they'd probably be amazed how many will fit.....

OldTownPilot · October 3rd, 2006, 20:40

Bags not fitting is not an excuse. I have bulked out a bin once and had to leave bags off. It was at 108 bags in a CRJ-200. The bin weight limit is 110 bags. 130+ can fit in a 700. Havent had that many heavy loads on COex to EWR in the ERJs to really tell.

As far as the DCI performance numbers those came from the Comair "epic" website. FRL and ASA always were swaping back and forth for last. CHQ/TCF were swaping back and forth for 3rd and 4th, I realize they are the sams company, but are separated in the DCI stats. Comair and SKW were first an second.

Delay and bag numbers, mirrored the hubs that they operte in. CVG and SLC have the best, while ATL is bad,

October 2nd, 2006, 15:56	#1
Tim Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,205	Comair bidding for Delta flying Comair to Submit Bid for Delta Service Monday October 2, 3:42 pm ET By Lisa Cornwell, Associated Press Writer Comair to Submit Bid for Regional Jet Service From Its Parent Company, Delta Air Lines CINCINNATI (AP) -- Comair said it will submit a bid for regional jet service from its parent, Delta Air Lines Inc., by Monday's deadline even though it has not reached deals on concessions with unions representing its flight attendants, pilots or mechanics. The bid will reflect the restructuring Comair has completed in non-union areas and the savings it is forecasting for concessions from the unions for the flight attendants and mechanics, Comair spokeswoman Tressie Long said. She said that the airline, based in nearby Erlanger, Ky., is nearing an agreement with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers representing Comair's 550 mechanics and is working with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters representing its 970 flight attendants to reach an agreement. A bankruptcy judge has given Comair the authority to impose concessions. Comair will have no choice but to implement the changes if an agreement is not reached with flight attendants, Long said. The flight attendants have threatened to strike if concessions are imposed. Little progress has been made in negotiations over the weekend with the Air Line Pilots Association representing Comair pilots, she said. Like its Atlanta-based parent Delta, Comair, which has 6,500 employees and operates 882 flights daily to 103 cities, is reorganizing under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, for which it filed last year. Am I missing something because wouldnt Delta be cutting its own throat by not giving the flying to Comair since they do affect the bottom line. But then again nothing that Delta does should suprise me. __________________ Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turn skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.----- Leonardo Da Vinci

October 2nd, 2006, 16:05	#2
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,271 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying They're trying to force paycuts down the pilot and flight attendants throats by saying "Oh, your costs are too high and we're going to get underbid by competing airlines". Sadly, what'll probably happen is that another regional will underbid Comair, they'll hire a bunch of pilots and we'll have some folks here screaming "OMG! GoJets2 is hiring! Woo! Anyone have the gouge? Look at the low mins!" __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

October 2nd, 2006, 16:53	#4
OldTownPilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: BGR (Bangor, ME) Posts: 2,849 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying This whole DCI thing is rediculous with the undercutting. Delta must really not like CMR, they reopened a crew base in MCO, then DL puts CHQ and then FRL in there. CMR starts a new crew base in JFK ... What does DL do? Throw FRL in there with shardy azz dash-8s that are about to fall apart. DCI as it stands right now is a discrace to the Delta brand. Our afternoon turn to CVG just changed over to ASA in a historically CMR station to CMRs home. Our FFs on Sunday were prety peeved over it. __________________ As a wise man said, sumb!tch flew in, sumb!tch'll fly out. Ski Hard. Party Harder.

October 2nd, 2006, 17:14	#5
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,462	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying Don't forget...being owned by Delta means everything....

October 2nd, 2006, 18:25	#7
PLANECOOK Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL350 Posts: 103	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying Well, you all have great responses, but you have to take into consideration that Delta is no necessarily the strongest carrier out there right now. I mean, look at the downfall of "Song", which was supposed to be the future of Delta. The point is that if a lower bid comes in for the Comair service I am pretty sure that Delta will untilize that bid. The other poster did have a good point when he mentioned lower hire time for some other carrriers who honestly an find pilots anywhere and that the difference between a high bid and a low bid. It is just unfortunate that Delta has so many problems with flight crew, and mechanics. I guess someone should do an industry analysis on there crew pay to the other "very profitable" low cost carriers and then decide whether a low bid will work of if another cash consuming higher bid is what is in the best interest of the company. No offense to the well paid Delta airlines pilot.

October 2nd, 2006, 18:32	#8
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,058	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying Money isn't everything. If the lower bidding company provides shotty customer services, loses bags and is never on-time, it will wind up costing Delta MORE in the long run by covering comped tickets, drinks, etc, lost bag fees and overnight hotels or free flights. In this industry, a lot of times you get what you pay for.... __________________ "I'm The Doctor, by the way. Run for your life!"

October 2nd, 2006, 18:57	#9
OldTownPilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: BGR (Bangor, ME) Posts: 2,849 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying From my travels around the DL system I have flown through all of their hubs and all of the DCI carriers. If I was a paying passenger on Freedoms Dash-8s in JFK I would be appauled. ATL's DCI side is a joke, all handled by ASA. At our station we have 1 flight from ATL on ASA which brings in half of our missing bags out of 6 flights. Most of them originate in ATL. You know its bad when the favored carriers (FRL, CHQ qnd ASA) have a completion factor around 93% and an A-14 of 50% and 3.5% of their bags are late. CMR and SKW are near 99%, 75% and 1% respectivly. Delta let ASA get run down and now SKW is fixing their screwups and now CMR is loseing out. Maybe being sold off would be a good thing at this point..... It used to be that the regionals had a good, lasting, relationship with their partner. (notice partner..no S) .... Not any more. __________________ As a wise man said, sumb!tch flew in, sumb!tch'll fly out. Ski Hard. Party Harder.

October 2nd, 2006, 20:29	#10
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,049	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying I feel Mesa/Freedom is going for the underbid. Mesa is currently preparing several CRJ-700's to enter service with United and will convert some more ERJ's from UA to DL. I heard that Mesa is also bidding for 70-76 seater DCI flying. I don't know if they are going to procure some a/c if awarded that. I know Embraer has been here courting Mesa to buy E-170 an E-190 a/c. The company isn't happy with Bombardiers support of the 900 and 700's Like I said before, the F8 operation in JFK is a joke. F8 leased the oldest Dash 8s around. F8's having to mod them with BETA, and adding a lot of AD's. Sourcing parts has been a nightmare due to the old age of the a/c. A spare ERJ has been moved up to JFK to cover, but can't cover all the flights. No F8 is handling a lot of lines out of ATL. It's a longistical nightmare! Who knows only time will tell.

October 3rd, 2006, 02:00	#14
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,271 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying Well, that's 51% of that brand's flying now. Now it's like walking into Subway and having a guy with a "Crazy Lou's Discount Sang'wiches" behind the counter making you a service station-quality sandwich. But that's just about all I'll say about that! __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

October 3rd, 2006, 09:24	#15
killbilly Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,935	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying Seems like starting an airplane-repainting service would be a good business right now...a la' the Pay N Spray from Grand Theft Auto.

October 3rd, 2006, 14:17	#17
Bandit_Driver Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DTW Posts: 1,672	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying RJET's CURRENT NUMBERS as of 9-21-06 On-Time [A’14] & Completion Factor respectively American 86.0% 99.4% Delta 76.4% 99.0% US Airways 71.9% 97.6% United 76.0% 98.2% Division results On-Time [A’14] & Completion Factor respectively Chautauqua Airlines 77.0% 98.8% Shuttle America 72.1% 98.7% Republic Airlines 74.5% 96.1% RJET System Total 75.5% 98.4% Fleet results On-Time [A’14] & Completion Factor respectively E135/140/145 77.0% 98.8% E170 73.1% 97.7% __________________ OOTSK Logbook Pro - Electronic Pilots Logbook

October 3rd, 2006, 14:52	#18
Tim Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,205	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying How do those numbers compare to the rest of the DCI flyers? I am just wondering.... I know its weird to see the 170 parked at gates in ATL that were always just mainline __________________ Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turn skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.----- Leonardo Da Vinci

October 3rd, 2006, 20:40	#20
OldTownPilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: BGR (Bangor, ME) Posts: 2,849 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Comair bidding for Delta flying Bags not fitting is not an excuse. I have bulked out a bin once and had to leave bags off. It was at 108 bags in a CRJ-200. The bin weight limit is 110 bags. 130+ can fit in a 700. Havent had that many heavy loads on COex to EWR in the ERJs to really tell. As far as the DCI performance numbers those came from the Comair "epic" website. FRL and ASA always were swaping back and forth for last. CHQ/TCF were swaping back and forth for 3rd and 4th, I realize they are the sams company, but are separated in the DCI stats. Comair and SKW were first an second. Delay and bag numbers, mirrored the hubs that they operte in. CVG and SLC have the best, while ATL is bad, __________________ As a wise man said, sumb!tch flew in, sumb!tch'll fly out. Ski Hard. Party Harder.

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