Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia)

AngelFuree · September 28th, 2006, 19:59

Our school has an altitude chamber that takes you up to 25,000ft in pressure. It is made so that pilots can notice the effects altitude/pressure has on your bodies. Well.....it so happens I just got back from it like an hour ago. It was quite the experience! We've always read it in books how hypoxia is bad, blah blah blah.....etc etc....but you don't really know how bad it is until you try it.

The "flight" starts out by having the whole group inside the chamber breathe 100% oxygen at sea level for 30 minutes to reduce nitrogen levels in your blood and thus reduce the risk of decompression sickness. We sat for 30 minutes then "climbed" to 10000ft pressure altitude and came back down to make sure none of us in the chamber had ear block problems. After doing so, we then continued to climb up to 25000ft pressure altitude at an ascent rate of 4000 ft/min. After about 6 minutes, we were up in altitude.

The demonstration begins by having one side of the chamber (two rows of people sitting facing each other) remove their masks at 25K ft. Two volunteers perform different exercises. One person reads cards from a deck, one playing card at a time. Another person tries placing different shaped objects inside a box having different shaped holes for each specific object. The remaining people fill out a questionnaire with a variety of questions including simple math problems, and other simple questions about yourself.

I was one of the persons filling out the questionnaires.
I started filling out the form, and about 15 seconds later, started feeling the effects of it, quickly! The lack of pressure and inability of your body to intake oxygen is amazing. I didn't really notice the difference it was making, but the most apparent symptom was dizziness. Remember, there are many hypoxia symptoms. Anyway, I started feeling dizzy and noticed a subtle, very very very subtle difference in my vision. In about 50 seconds, I was ready to get back on oxygen. I was feeling too uncomfortable and might have passed out if I forced myself to hold it longer.
I got back on pressured 100% oxygen, and WOW. WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW was my reaction. My vision got 100X brighter. I did not realize how much my vision had been affected. My head felt sooo much better immediately.

We then descended to 18000 ft and we did a color test. We took our masks off, lights off (only tiny recessed lights were kept on) and (ok a little bit long to explain here) in the end we were looking at a color image, and stared at it for a while. After about a minute and a half (remember, we're lower so it takes longer to feel the effects of hypoxia) we put our oxygen masks back on. The colors came back to life. It was really cool to experience that. After that, we came back down to ground level. On our way down, someone had an ear block and the instructor/doctor (AME) had to use nasal spray on the guy. It took another 10 minutes to fix his problem and we got back down eventually.

I know it sounds overly dramatic and exaggerated, but it's the pure reality.
It's really amazing what pressure does to you. After going through this, I respect hypoxia.

Some of you guys might be wondering about the time of effective performance (or whatever you call it). It really varies from person to person. The average person can last about 4 minutes in the chamber without much of a problem. I didn't last that long which kinda sucks but oh well. I asked the doctor about that. He mentioned that couch potatoes can last like 7 minutes, from his experience. I'm assuming this has to do with a person's VO2 level?

Anyway, long post short, it was really an eye opening experience!

I'm sure others who have experienced this before could contribute and agree with my experience.

MQAAord · September 28th, 2006, 20:34

Some people blow off hypoxia, and think "oh, I'll be fine".

Hypoxia is REAL, it's effects are REAL. If you're on an airliner and the masks drop, don't think about what's happening, PUT THE MASK ON, then wonder why they dropped.

Hypoxia and decompression procedures are extensively covered in F/A new-hire class. We watched a video of some poor RAF guy in a decompression chamber, and watched him go from a sprightly, chatty chap to a slumped-over slurring lump in a matter of minutes.

Foxcow · September 28th, 2006, 21:58

It was definately an eye opener for me too. I lasted 4 minues at 25,000ft. I couldn't write my name or add 6+4. It hit me a lot faster than I thought.

Wait until Jensen makes you guys do the explosive decompression stuff.

wrxpilot · September 28th, 2006, 22:09

Thanks for the post!! I'm doing the high altitude chamber on Monday at Petersen AFB. Sounds like we'll have an interesting experience.

Did you do yours through the FAA/military agreement, or does your school actually have an altitude chamber?

tonyw · September 28th, 2006, 23:30

All you need to know about altitude sickness and hypoxia can be demonstrated by going from sea level to one of the Summit County resorts. The towns where you stay are at about 10,000 feet with the peaks about 13,000 feet.

I'm in pretty good shape, but just walking uphill there at 10,000 feet has me sucking wind. And then put me on the peak and ask me to sidestep up 25 feet? It's like I ran a marathon.

I can only imagine what it's like at double the altitude!

Foxcow · September 28th, 2006, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxpilot

Thanks for the post!! I'm doing the high altitude chamber on Monday at Petersen AFB. Sounds like we'll have an interesting experience.

Did you do yours through the FAA/military agreement, or does your school actually have an altitude chamber?

There is an actual hypobaric chamber that the founder of the school somehow aquired for the school.

undsioux1 · September 28th, 2006, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxcow

There is an actual hypobaric chamber that the founder of the school somehow aquired for the school.

It was given to us by the Air Force. from what i heard we did some contract work with them, and that was the reward.

John_Mitchell · September 29th, 2006, 00:02

The FAA has a training program that is available to anyone to undergo this physiological training. I am waiting to take a couple days off so I can go. I've had some pilots who went there tell me how invaluable this training is. Here is the link to the pdf file for any of you out there who are interested.

(sorry about the long URL, but I do not know how to post a hyperlink on this forum)

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pil...272005_web.pdf

If the link doesn't work, I also attached the pdf file.

AngelFuree · September 29th, 2006, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxcow

It was definately an eye opener for me too. I lasted 4 minues at 25,000ft. I couldn't write my name or add 6+4. It hit me a lot faster than I thought.

Wait until Jensen makes you guys do the explosive decompression stuff.

Damnit, I guess I'm a minuteman at 25000ft.

jk

AngelFuree · September 29th, 2006, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxpilot

Thanks for the post!! I'm doing the high altitude chamber on Monday at Petersen AFB. Sounds like we'll have an interesting experience.

Did you do yours through the FAA/military agreement, or does your school actually have an altitude chamber?

Oh sweet, yeah you'll like the experience. Really really cool. Let us know of your experience for sure!
Yeah UND has its own altitude chamber donated by the airforce like mentioned above.

Fly4Pay · September 29th, 2006, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Damnit, I guess I'm a minuteman at 25000ft.

jk

Don't feel bad. I did the chamber about four or five times in the AF. First time, everybody was macho to see how long they could last. By the last time, I was like, "OK, stinks in here... put the mask back on..."

(if you have to ask why it stinks in there, you've never done the chamber!!)

AngelFuree · September 29th, 2006, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_Mitchell

The FAA has a training program that is available to anyone to undergo this physiological training. I am waiting to take a couple days off so I can go. I've had some pilots who went there tell me how invaluable this training is. Here is the link to the pdf file for any of you out there who are interested.

(sorry about the long URL, but I do not know how to post a hyperlink on this forum)

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pil...272005_web.pdf

If the link doesn't work, I also attached the pdf file.

Excellent! I'm sure this will be useful for others. I didn't know the FAA had such a program available to anyone. I knew the military did, but didn't know it was readily available to the aviation public. Do you pay for the course? If so, how much? I'm kinda curious. Thanks!

AngelFuree · September 29th, 2006, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly4Pay

Don't feel bad. I did the chamber about four or five times in the AF. First time, everybody was macho to see how long they could last. By the last time, I was like, "OK, stinks in here... put the mask back on..."

(if you have to ask why it stinks in there, you've never done the chamber!!)

Gas expansion......sphincter valve......

CAFFEINE · September 29th, 2006, 09:30

The Flight Physiology course was one of my favorite classes. I think that the altitude chamber is one of the best experiences we get here at UND.

TXaviator · September 29th, 2006, 10:23

heh, Jensen pumped someone up with oxymetazoline eh?

that stuff rocks, though when i was having really bad sinus issues this past summer I had to be very careful not to get too dependent on it....eventually went cold turkey to save myself from it later down the road

awesome stuff though, a real miracle in a pinch if your sinuses are totally blocked.

My Flight Surgeon · September 29th, 2006, 11:31

Just to add to the importance of hypoxia, many of the "disqualifying" conditions (those for which you may receive a Special Issuance) are exacerbated by hypoxia. Problems like a potential seizure disorder become much worse at altitude (and it does not necessarily have to be 25,000 feet).

When I receive letters to the FAA to review from physicians who know nothing about altitude physiology, it becomes quite clear why there is frequently confusion on the part of the pilot whose doc told them they would be OK to fly. Altutude and the effects of hypoxia are significant.

Here is the link to the FAA's brochure on hypoxia. http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pil...ia/hypoxia.pdf

wrxpilot · September 29th, 2006, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Excellent! I'm sure this will be useful for others. I didn't know the FAA had such a program available to anyone. I knew the military did, but didn't know it was readily available to the aviation public. Do you pay for the course? If so, how much? I'm kinda curious. Thanks!

It's only $50 if you do it at an Air Force Base, free if you do it in OKC at the FAA facility. All you need is a 3rd class med.

I don't know about other locations, but I was able to get signed up almost immediatly for a class. Very cool opportunity.

Screaming_Emu · September 29th, 2006, 16:15

What I thought was really starnge when I did it is that I didn't even realize I passed out (the first time). One minute I was working on the work sheet and started to feel funny. I wanted to let it go pretty far just to see what it was like, but I had no intention of passing out. The next thing I knew was someone was putting my mask on for me. Definately a cool experience. The 2nd time I was in there I got the shape box, and when I was trying ot put the square peg into the star hole I figured it was time to get back on oxygen. Definately a great class here, and Dr. Jensen is by far the best teacher here.

Foxcow · September 29th, 2006, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Gas expansion......sphincter valve......

Did Jensen give you guys the sonic boom speech?

CAFFEINE · September 29th, 2006, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

<snip>Dr. Jensen is by far the best teacher here.

I agree.

TXaviator · September 29th, 2006, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

and Dr. Jensen is by far the best teacher here.

####ing A+ number one guy.

Fly4Pay · September 30th, 2006, 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

What I thought was really starnge when I did it is that I didn't even realize I passed out (the first time). One minute I was working on the work sheet and started to feel funny.

Quick story from my very first AF altitude chamber... on that one, they take you to FL 350 and have ONE person take off the mask as a demo. They gave him one of those toys for toddlers with varying shapes that fit into a ball with matching shaped holes. The guy did about five or six of the shapes, picked up the next one, pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

Finally they put his mask back up for him. Within seconds, he went back to working the puzzle, never knowing he'd been on the express train to La-La Land!

AngelFuree · September 30th, 2006, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly4Pay

Quick story from my very first AF altitude chamber... on that one, they take you to FL 350 and have ONE person take off the mask as a demo. They gave him one of those toys for toddlers with varying shapes that fit into a ball with matching shaped holes. The guy did about five or six of the shapes, picked up the next one, pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

pushed it against the side of the ball, missing the hole...

Finally they put his mask back up for him. Within seconds, he went back to working the puzzle, never knowing he'd been on the express train to La-La Land!

Sounds just about right!

September 28th, 2006, 19:59	#1
AngelFuree Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: G-Forks, ND/ NYC Posts: 3,105	Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) Our school has an altitude chamber that takes you up to 25,000ft in pressure. It is made so that pilots can notice the effects altitude/pressure has on your bodies. Well.....it so happens I just got back from it like an hour ago. It was quite the experience! We've always read it in books how hypoxia is bad, blah blah blah.....etc etc....but you don't really know how bad it is until you try it. The "flight" starts out by having the whole group inside the chamber breathe 100% oxygen at sea level for 30 minutes to reduce nitrogen levels in your blood and thus reduce the risk of decompression sickness. We sat for 30 minutes then "climbed" to 10000ft pressure altitude and came back down to make sure none of us in the chamber had ear block problems. After doing so, we then continued to climb up to 25000ft pressure altitude at an ascent rate of 4000 ft/min. After about 6 minutes, we were up in altitude. The demonstration begins by having one side of the chamber (two rows of people sitting facing each other) remove their masks at 25K ft. Two volunteers perform different exercises. One person reads cards from a deck, one playing card at a time. Another person tries placing different shaped objects inside a box having different shaped holes for each specific object. The remaining people fill out a questionnaire with a variety of questions including simple math problems, and other simple questions about yourself. I was one of the persons filling out the questionnaires. I started filling out the form, and about 15 seconds later, started feeling the effects of it, quickly! The lack of pressure and inability of your body to intake oxygen is amazing. I didn't really notice the difference it was making, but the most apparent symptom was dizziness. Remember, there are many hypoxia symptoms. Anyway, I started feeling dizzy and noticed a subtle, very very very subtle difference in my vision. In about 50 seconds, I was ready to get back on oxygen. I was feeling too uncomfortable and might have passed out if I forced myself to hold it longer. I got back on pressured 100% oxygen, and WOW. WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW was my reaction. My vision got 100X brighter. I did not realize how much my vision had been affected. My head felt sooo much better immediately. We then descended to 18000 ft and we did a color test. We took our masks off, lights off (only tiny recessed lights were kept on) and (ok a little bit long to explain here) in the end we were looking at a color image, and stared at it for a while. After about a minute and a half (remember, we're lower so it takes longer to feel the effects of hypoxia) we put our oxygen masks back on. The colors came back to life. It was really cool to experience that. After that, we came back down to ground level. On our way down, someone had an ear block and the instructor/doctor (AME) had to use nasal spray on the guy. It took another 10 minutes to fix his problem and we got back down eventually. I know it sounds overly dramatic and exaggerated, but it's the pure reality. It's really amazing what pressure does to you. After going through this, I respect hypoxia. Some of you guys might be wondering about the time of effective performance (or whatever you call it). It really varies from person to person. The average person can last about 4 minutes in the chamber without much of a problem. I didn't last that long which kinda sucks but oh well. I asked the doctor about that. He mentioned that couch potatoes can last like 7 minutes, from his experience. I'm assuming this has to do with a person's VO2 level? Anyway, long post short, it was really an eye opening experience! I'm sure others who have experienced this before could contribute and agree with my experience.

September 28th, 2006, 20:34	#2
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 8,908	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) Some people blow off hypoxia, and think "oh, I'll be fine". Hypoxia is REAL, it's effects are REAL. If you're on an airliner and the masks drop, don't think about what's happening, PUT THE MASK ON, then wonder why they dropped. Hypoxia and decompression procedures are extensively covered in F/A new-hire class. We watched a video of some poor RAF guy in a decompression chamber, and watched him go from a sprightly, chatty chap to a slumped-over slurring lump in a matter of minutes. __________________ PPL SEL 100-ish hours TT Former American Airlines F/A (12 months) Former Simmons/Eagle F/A (6 years) Former Eagle ground school instructor (1 year) Former Eagle IOE instructor (3 years)

September 28th, 2006, 21:58	#3
Foxcow Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: St. Louis Posts: 1,026	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) It was definately an eye opener for me too. I lasted 4 minues at 25,000ft. I couldn't write my name or add 6+4. It hit me a lot faster than I thought. Wait until Jensen makes you guys do the explosive decompression stuff. __________________ "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell Trans States Airlines

September 28th, 2006, 22:09	#4
wrxpilot Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Somewhere in FL Posts: 332	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) Thanks for the post!! I'm doing the high altitude chamber on Monday at Petersen AFB. Sounds like we'll have an interesting experience. Did you do yours through the FAA/military agreement, or does your school actually have an altitude chamber?

September 28th, 2006, 23:30	#5
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,198	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) All you need to know about altitude sickness and hypoxia can be demonstrated by going from sea level to one of the Summit County resorts. The towns where you stay are at about 10,000 feet with the peaks about 13,000 feet. I'm in pretty good shape, but just walking uphill there at 10,000 feet has me sucking wind. And then put me on the peak and ask me to sidestep up 25 feet? It's like I ran a marathon. I can only imagine what it's like at double the altitude! __________________ http://www.photo.net/photos/tonywang for my photos

September 29th, 2006, 00:02	#8
John_Mitchell Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 112	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) The FAA has a training program that is available to anyone to undergo this physiological training. I am waiting to take a couple days off so I can go. I've had some pilots who went there tell me how invaluable this training is. Here is the link to the pdf file for any of you out there who are interested. (sorry about the long URL, but I do not know how to post a hyperlink on this forum) http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pil...272005_web.pdf If the link doesn't work, I also attached the pdf file. __________________ Private Pilot, ASEL :-)

September 29th, 2006, 09:30	#14
CAFFEINE Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 652	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) The Flight Physiology course was one of my favorite classes. I think that the altitude chamber is one of the best experiences we get here at UND. __________________ Sleep is a poor substitute for coffee. Commercial Pilot ASMEL, IA CFI/CFII/MEI

September 29th, 2006, 10:23	#15
TXaviator Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Austin, TX / Grand Forks, ND Posts: 2,041	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) heh, Jensen pumped someone up with oxymetazoline eh? that stuff rocks, though when i was having really bad sinus issues this past summer I had to be very careful not to get too dependent on it....eventually went cold turkey to save myself from it later down the road awesome stuff though, a real miracle in a pinch if your sinuses are totally blocked. __________________ CPL AMEL-I 175TT / 20 ME ...and a pulse. Hire me. I'm awesome. I promise.

September 29th, 2006, 11:31	#16
My Flight Surgeon Sr. Aviation Medical Examiner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,167	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) Just to add to the importance of hypoxia, many of the "disqualifying" conditions (those for which you may receive a Special Issuance) are exacerbated by hypoxia. Problems like a potential seizure disorder become much worse at altitude (and it does not necessarily have to be 25,000 feet). When I receive letters to the FAA to review from physicians who know nothing about altitude physiology, it becomes quite clear why there is frequently confusion on the part of the pilot whose doc told them they would be OK to fly. Altutude and the effects of hypoxia are significant. Here is the link to the FAA's brochure on hypoxia. http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pil...ia/hypoxia.pdf __________________ Walter Forred, MD PHX 602-368-5633 www.myflightsurgeon.com

September 29th, 2006, 16:15	#18
Screaming_Emu Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 3,134	Re: Altitude Chamber (Hypoxia) What I thought was really starnge when I did it is that I didn't even realize I passed out (the first time). One minute I was working on the work sheet and started to feel funny. I wanted to let it go pretty far just to see what it was like, but I had no intention of passing out. The next thing I knew was someone was putting my mask on for me. Definately a cool experience. The 2nd time I was in there I got the shape box, and when I was trying ot put the square peg into the star hole I figured it was time to get back on oxygen. Definately a great class here, and Dr. Jensen is by far the best teacher here. __________________ Commercial Pilot - ASEL, AMEL, Instrument CFI/II 880TT CRJ-700 FO at Southernjets Connection Former flight instructor out of KBWI and W29 Loves Dutch chicks "jtrain609: I wish I had a pair"

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