Gojets 2x, this time for pinnacle

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by BrettInLJ

Which goes to show how important a strong, united pilot group is. Win or lose, I think we have that or I would not be here.

Ironically, I don't think we were that united until management started sending FedEx letters on a Saturday to 1200+ pilots pleading for us to tell our union to accept their offer. I think that did more to unite us than anything the union could have done.

Max, he DOES work here.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by higney85

Some of these guys in class have never even seen a flight level, nor anything that does 200kts on a ground speed. At least I wont be flying with them!

Question - What is the % of new hires with under 1500 hours at any Regional having any experience at flight levels and aircraft with speed greater the 200kts? I would think this number is going to be extremely low.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

Question - What is the % of new hires with under 1500 hours at any Regional having any experience at flight levels and aircraft with speed greater the 200kts? I would think this number is going to be extremely low.

Aww... but ATP gets you in a Citation. It's SOOO worth it.

Out of the guys in my class that were under 1500... 6 of us I think. 1 had been flying a Lear towing targets. The other 5 were CFIs. No (or very little) time in anything other then GA aircraft under F180.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

1 had been flying a Lear towing targets

Thats sounds like an interesting job

[FlyChicaga]

Originally Posted by higney85

...but I dont feel very good about guys with less than half my time flying my family around, I just recall how much I "thought" I knew, and how much I "learned" when going from 500hours to the 1000hours I have now- and I don't even begin to say that I am "experienced". Some of these guys in class have never even seen a flight level, nor anything that does 200kts on a ground speed. At least I wont be flying with them!

You need to start somewhere.

I could care less about how many hours the pilot has. Even as I approach 3000 hours, I still don't consider myself "experienced." I think the problem is not with total flight time, it is with attitudes. The "I deserve this" attitude. Give me a low-time pilot with a "I want to learn! I want to try! I am ready to assimilate as much information as I can and I am ready to learn from my mistakes!" attitude anyday over a "I don't need to listen, I've flown jets before" high-time pilot.

I think too many pilots put down the low-time guys and spend their energy bashing them instead of nurturing them. I was lucky when I started with low-time, because I had many, many great CAs who were understanding and helpful. They took the time to explain things to me, and didn't put me down when I made mistakes. No pilot will not make mistakes. They key is learning from them.

One of the major jobs of a CA is to nurture and teach the FO how to be an effective CA someday. They will not be an FO forever. If you just sit by getting ticked at a new-FOs lack of knowledge, but do nothing about it, then you are doing a grave disservice to your company and all the passengers/crews who will fly with that FO when they upgrade.

[Kingairer]

----Its kinda smart from Pinnacle Managements point of view, but I dont feel very good about guys with less than half my time flying my family around, I just recall how much I "thought" I knew, and how much I "learned" when going from 500hours to the 1000hours I have now- and I don't even begin to say that I am "experienced". Some of these guys in class have never even seen a flight level, nor anything that does 200kts on a ground speed. At least I wont be flying with them!
-----

Hiney, Youll be just as clueless as they are when you hit the line. Dont throw your buds under the bus just yet. Youll need them and theyll need you.

[DE727UPS]

Being a nurturing Capt is a given. Having an F/O with a good attitude is a given. A pilot with 300 hours still doesn't belong in the right seat of a 121 pax jet. Too many things he hasn't seen or experienced to be in that seat at that level.

I don't know where exactly to draw the line but having gone through what it takes to get a CFI, and worked as one for a time, impresses me a lot.

[Fly4Pay]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

You need to start somewhere.
One of the major jobs of a CA is to nurture and teach the FO how to be an effective CA someday. They will not be an FO forever. If you just sit by getting ticked at a new-FOs lack of knowledge, but do nothing about it, then you are doing a grave disservice to your company and all the passengers/crews who will fly with that FO when they upgrade.

Amen, brutha, preach on!!

I always tell guys that the job of a FO/copilot is to learn how to be a CA/aircraft commander (civ/mil). The job of a CA/aircraft commander is to grow FOs/copilots.

[higney85]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

----Its kinda smart from Pinnacle Managements point of view, but I dont feel very good about guys with less than half my time flying my family around, I just recall how much I "thought" I knew, and how much I "learned" when going from 500hours to the 1000hours I have now- and I don't even begin to say that I am "experienced". Some of these guys in class have never even seen a flight level, nor anything that does 200kts on a ground speed. At least I wont be flying with them!
-----

Higney, Youll be just as clueless as they are when you hit the line. Dont throw your buds under the bus just yet. Youll need them and theyll need you.

I'm not putting the guys under the bus, I am sure I will be just as clueless, but you need to admit that there is a jump from the training environment to the real world flying environment- especially doing it at jet speeds. There are places for low time guys, heck we were all there once and I still consider myself low time, but I think there should be a learning transition that requires real world flying to gain experience before you strap 50 people to your back. The minimums of 3000TT (company) is good for the reason that a low timer has to wait to get a bit more experience and learn a bit more from the CA's before they teach the FO's. I have heard numerous stories of guys having low time FO's and having to do it all themselves going into places like JFK and LGA because the FO was so lost and behind the plane/situation. Who knows, now that I say that I can only imagine what will happen to me on IOE!

[FlyChicaga]

Wait. You have 1000 hrs, are 21 years old, and not out of training yet. What have you flown in the flight levels over 200 knots?

[kellwolf]

Hate to break it to ya, but I'm sure there are some high timers with jet time that might have been a bit lost going into JFK, LGA, DCA etc the first time. They might not be AS far behind. Me? I did the non-fly stuff the first time I flew into DCA and BOS. CA makes that call, and I felt it was a good one. Gave me a chance to see what was going on the first time. I think it's a little unfair to expect an FO that has never been into busy airspace like that to be on their A game. I did the best I could, and I think I did alright. I definately learned a lot, and I won't have a problem flying into those places next time.

Besides, flying in the flight levels over 200 kts is the EASY part.

[higney85]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

Wait. You have 1000 hrs, are 21 years old, and not out of training yet. What have you flown in the flight levels over 200 knots?

I have a little Kingair time in the multi column and most of my multi time was in planes that did about 200. I by no way claim to be a gift to aviation, believe me. There are plenty of guys and gals out there with much less time than me that can fly circles around me, I am just stating that I am a firm believer in experience coming from time- both flight and calender. There are some guys in my class that just started flying this past february, 9 months from the start of a C-152 to the spool up of a Jet- thats alot of big steps in a short amount of time! There is something that can be said for getting to that point soo fast- its some intense dedication, but is it safe?

[kellwolf]

I went from C-172 to PCL in about 7 months. I flew my *ss off those seven months to where I had about the same amount of TT you did. Was that safe? I think so.

[Kingairer]

"Youre not going to be happy unless youre going "200 Knots" with Your hair on fire".

What she shouldve said to Pete.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

"Youre not going to be happy unless youre going "200 Knots" with Your hair on fire".

What she shouldve said to Pete.

You had to think a long time to come up with that? Dude... I'm disapointed in your Kingairism skills.