First Couple Year Pay

[kellwolf]

Probably. The big question is "how much?" The company is trying to win votes with first year FOs by jacking the 2nd year FO pay up to $28 and some change for the second year. Then it tails off VERY quickly after that. If the FOs look past that, they see the CA rate is actually getting the shaft. It's one of those pull the wool over the starry eyed newbie type deal. "Oh, look! I'll be making a lot more next year! Oh wait, it won't go up much at all after that until I upgrade, then it goes up slower even then."

Reserve in MEM depends. I'm on month 4 right now, which is unusual. We've had slower attrition that usual, plus the company doing the "we have a surplus of pilots" dance is sorta keeping me down. On the plus side, I pretty get my top pick of reserve lines (weekends off) and I'm like 4 away from holding a build up line if they don't reduce the lines again next month. If I had gone to MSP or DTW, I woulda held a line about a month ago.

[ChrisH]

Most other regionals have $30-$35/hr after first year. I hope the first year FO's realize this, and don't fall for that. Hopefully there are enough non first year FO's, and CA's that can out vote the first year FO's. I assume you are a first year FO. What are your thoughts? I'd vote against it, unless everybody gets a fair raise.

[kellwolf]

There are a lot more things not related to money that I'd rather have in/out of the contract. Unless the vote comes after March, I won't even get a vote on the contract since I'm still on probation. I'd be willing to take a little less on the $$$ front for some bigger QOL issues.

[jtrain609]

Sellout

[kellwolf]

Sure, I could take the higher pay, but then I'd have to deal with being whipsawed by another certificate, paying higher health care costs and being extended for 5 hours on a whim even as a lineholder. Toss in getting extended into my day off, reducing me below the mins for days off that month with no procedure for getting the day off back (we have that now, PCL management wants it gone according to their current offer).

But hey, I'd be making more $$$, right?

[GaTechKid]

Who in the non-flying world gets 200 grand AND 8 days off a month?

Someone with a horrible QOL. That's 5 days away from home EACH week. Away from your wife, 2 year old, and yorkshire terrier. Think about how much of your kids' life you miss by sitting in a hotel room....

[jtrain609]

But I Love To Fly!!!!!

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

But I Love To Fly!!!!!

Lol...

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

But I Love To Fly!!!!!

How is that piston prop treating ya? Bet you'd take a pay cut to fly a JET!

[jtrain609]

Not a frigging chance man. Austin just got hired here so we're gonna find a cheap place to crash and get some TPIC time here in a year bro

[kellwolf]

Good luck with that. Hope the plane doesn't fall out from underneath ya.

[jtrain609]

Naw man, MX is killer. They're dirty, but they work.

[EatSleepFly]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Good luck with that. Hope the plane doesn't fall out from underneath ya.

Yeah, and CRJ's are just rock solid pieces of fine machinery.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Not a frigging chance man. Austin just got hired here so we're gonna find a cheap place to crash and get some TPIC time here in a year bro

You're not a real pilot until you fly an automated jet and are at FL280 going .80 props are for losers.

I wanna fly that E170 or the CRJ-900. Man I'd take a pay cut to fly that thing.

[jtrain609]

I'm glad to see that you've got your eye on the prize, Matt. You'll go far!

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I'm glad to see that you've got your eye on the prize, Matt. You'll go far!

Lol...well I text'd you the same thing last Sat. to no reply so figga'd hey why not join in on the fun.

[meritflyer]

I was told that a 3rd year, newly upgraded captain at Skywest could earn $70K.

[OldTownPilot]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I was told that a 3rd year, newly upgraded captain at Skywest could earn $70K.

....if he upgrades in two years....not that likely.

[kellwolf]

On the CRJ, probably not likely. My best friend has been there 2+ years and hasn't upgraded yet. If you're on the Bro, a 2 year upgrade is realistic. Heck, I think there are people on this site that upgrade in LESS than 2 years on the Bro there.

[TexasFlyer]

Here is a good comparison for someone on their "game" in the corporate world. Here are the real world facts about this person:

* College from 1991-1996 and graduated in 1996. Graduated at the age of 23 (yeah, took the 5 year plan and had to work part-time to pay for it to keep the loans reasonable... ended up with around $35K in loans back in 1996; same program now is closer to $60K at that college).

* First job out of college, made $28K in 1997.

* In 2000 made $70K.

* In 2002 this person was unemployed for about 8 months due to the effects of 9-11 on business, but got to work later that year but only made around $40K that year trying to do the best they could. 2003 was a better year of around $65K and in 2004 things were back on track in the $90K range.

* In 2006 makes around $115K at 33 years old.

* Getting close to "topping out" since $150K is a realistic top over the next few years (say by 2010 and at about 37 years old). So only expect cost of living raises or less thereafter.

* As far as QOL, pretty much home every night. But how productive is home every night when work starts at around 8am and you get home around 8pm-9pm since your average day is 12 hours? So you come home, eat dinner, relax for a couple hours and you are out cold from the stress of knowing any day your job can end as soon as you can be replaced by the younger person who begins to perform better than you. But yes, at least you work hard in order to have your Friday night and Saturday off to enjoy each week. That is if you do not out from exhaustion on Friday, since then it only leaves you Saturday to enjoy. Sunday, well that's doing some work around the house and that evening is spent preparing for work Monday.


Now, how does this compare to the airline career path?
* One year of flight school and online college (most effective that way IMO). Then Flight Instruct for three years while finishing online degree. Let's consider this as that 4-5 years of college the person above took. So with the off-set of the CFI job, their loans come out to about the same amount; around $40K total back in 1996. Now it's time to get that regional airline job since you are very well qualified to apply in 1997 with that experience / hours / training.

Here are the questions. It's now 1997 and you started at American Eagle (or similar).
* How much did you make in 1997?
* How about in 2000?
* Did you get Furloughed after 9-11? If so, what did you make in 2002 and 2003?
* How much are you now making in 2006?
* How is your QOL in 2006?
* What compensation amount will your career be at around 2012 with a Regional? Or will you be at a major?
* What's your ultimate career top out in compensation in your opinion?

Hope someone knows the answers to the these. I think it would be a great comparison. At least it would be for me


PS - Oh, I also know many people who graduated college in 1996 and work from 8am to 5pm. Have a very high QOL. And started at $26K in 1996 and now make $60K and will absoltuely top out at $75K to $80K in their career over the next 10 years. They do this to remain in their high QOL professional 8-5 jobs and are happy doing just that. They are quite bored at work, but the QOL is why they stay. They traded QOL for less income. Then there are the unlucky ones, who still have to work 55+ hours a week for $60K to $75K a year and can't do any better for a variety of reasons, yet can't seem to get that high QOL job either. Sometimes life is not fair...

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I was told that a 3rd year, newly upgraded captain at Skywest could earn $70K.

It is very possible at most of the jet operating regionals, to pull in $70K your first year or two as a captain. Whether you become a captain at year 3, is the question. It depends on upgrade time. Upgrading in two years on the CRJ at SkyW might be a little optimistic. I would say you will upgrade after year 3, maybe 4. But that salary seems realistic for a newly upgraded captain in the CRJ. I know guys who made that, or more within their first year or two as a captain at several regionals.

Originally Posted by TexasFlyer

PS - Oh, I also know many people who graduated college in 1996 and work from 8am to 5pm. Have a very high QOL. And started at $26K in 1996 and now make $60K and will absoltuely top out at $75K to $80K in their career over the next 10 years. They do this to remain in their high QOL professional 8-5 jobs and are happy doing just that. They are quite bored at work, but the QOL is why they stay. They traded QOL for less income. Then there are the unlucky ones, who still have to work 55+ hours a week for $60K to $75K a year and can't do any better for a variety of reasons, yet can't seem to get that high QOL job either. Sometimes life is not fair...

You make an interesting point, and I am glad you made it. I too know people who have graduated college in recent years, as well as those who have been working in their career for numerous years. Seems most careers, unless you become an engineer, etc., tend to top out around $70K, maybe $80K in the higher range. Even some engineers, for that matter, don't make much more than that. My sister, who graduated with a business degree, had a starting salary of $26K. Friends graduating recently tend to be getting $30-$35K. This is what helps me keep regional pay in perspective. From a responsibility stand point, I think regional CAs and FOs deserve more money. But, salary wise, it isn't bad.