Weight

stuckingfk · May 6th, 2003, 21:53

If I wanted to take-off with a higher than gross weight that is certified for my aircraft, say to ferry an aircraft overseas (more fuel), what would I have to do or get approved from the FAA?

Thanks

jtrain609 · May 6th, 2003, 22:08

You've gotta get a ferry permit for the aircraft. Give your FSDO a call to find out what you gotta do.

Cheers

John Herreshoff

stuckingfk · May 6th, 2003, 22:11

John,

I thought it was something like that, but where can I find information on Ferry Permits. I can't seem to find it in the Private Pilot Jeppesen, but I could be overlooking it.

thanks

EatSleepFly · May 6th, 2003, 22:28

Thats because its not really something most private pilots have to deal with. Hell, I don't even know if its in the Jepp Commercial text (and I'm too lazy to look right now). You're best bet would be to give a FSDO a ring...they deal with things like that on a case-by-case basis, so theres not really much in textbooks about how to go about it.

ananoman · May 7th, 2003, 10:28

You can also call the AOPA, they have people to answer technical questions.

aviator · May 7th, 2003, 11:06

It can be done, you do need to get the ferry permit from the FSDO. Remember, if you are exceeding the max gross for the airplane the type certificate is technically invalid.

I had a buddy go through the process to ferry a Bonanza from Oakland to Honalulu. He said the paper work was a nightmare and thought the trip was VERY sketchy. 16 hours over water in a single....

davetheflyer · May 7th, 2003, 11:09

I think that the technical term is actually Special Flight Permit. You might try searching under that.

Jason · May 7th, 2003, 11:15

One reason you probably can't find anything about it is because it's not one of those things that is spelled out "If you do A, B, and C a ferry permit will be issued to do X" - while are some general guidelines it is very much up to the discretion of the Airworthiness Inspector at your FSDO as to how much bullcrap and what kind of bullcrap will be required of you before he signs off on it.

Also another word of warning - it would probably behoove you to call the FSDO that has jurisdiction over your departure airport - i.e. if you live in Wichita but plan to depart in the overweight condition from Boston call the Boston FSDO. I don't recall all of the specifics but when I was in the Dash 8 at Allegheny we ran into a situation where our POI at the local FSDO approved us to do something with the aircraft - when we landed at an airport within the jurisdiction of another FSDO an inspector decided he didn't think it was safe and tried to ground the airplane. Basically it was just a war between adjoining FSDO's to see whose pee pee was bigger but it caused headaches for the airline and the crews. Point is - make sure you have approval from the FSDO where your operation is going to take place.

Jason

stuckingfk · May 7th, 2003, 11:39

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Another question, what is the most pounds over gross you have seen, heard of or read? Thanks again

bumflip · May 7th, 2003, 11:54

How in the hell would someone get a Bonanza to HI without refueling? And the prevailing winds would kill your ground speed! I know it just a big deal to fly our choppers from Oahu to the Big Island...And there are stops in between! Somebody please enlighten me? Also wouldn't that pilot have to have another Pilot on board to take over after 8 hours?

May 7th, 2003, 14:17

fuel tanks. Lots and lots of extra fuel. Here is a link to a page of someone who flew around the world in a Mooney.

Around the world

and

details from Brackett Field, CA.(KPOC), to Hilo, Hawaii (PHTO) here

aviator · May 7th, 2003, 20:31

The owner installed a fuel tank inside the cabin. The orginal destination was actually Bangkok. The next stop after Hawiaii was the Solomon's (not to sure of that) Apparently the aircraft barely made it off the strip in Oakland (took something like 10,000' to get airborne). Once in flight the satelite phone he brought along wouldn't link up so he had passing airliners relay his position.

The ink was still wet on his commercial ticket and this was his first flying gig. After reaching Hawiaii he was hallucinating and pretty much scared out of his wits so he abandoned the aircraft there. Much to the dismay of the owner.

chunk75 · May 7th, 2003, 21:43

It's an old site, but I really like the story of going around the world in a King Air.

www.ponceby.com

DrBenny · May 7th, 2003, 22:18

Hover, when I was in Hawaii, I asked around the flight schools. Apparently, many of the Cessnas and others they have there were actually flown there.

[ QUOTE ]
How in the hell would someone get a Bonanza to HI without refueling? And the prevailing winds would kill your ground speed! I know it just a big deal to fly our choppers from Oahu to the Big Island...And there are stops in between! Somebody please enlighten me? Also wouldn't that pilot have to have another Pilot on board to take over after 8 hours?

[/ QUOTE ]

EatSleepFly · May 8th, 2003, 07:45

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, many of the Cessnas and others they have there were actually flown there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would dare bet most if not all were flown there. For one airplane, its probably cheaper/easier to throw in a ferry tank and be on your way.

sbav8r · May 8th, 2003, 07:55

I knew a guy who had done this in a 182. Almost the entire aircraft was tanked and over gross weight. He said they stopped doing it that way and most aircraft were crated and shipped. Perhaps this is only new aircraft, they may still tank the old ones.

Jason · May 8th, 2003, 08:23

Yeah it's honestly not that big of a deal to pull the wings off, put it in a box and send it one it's way. I can't imagine it would be any more expensive to ship a Cessna than it would be to ship say a pickup or SUV over there.

Jason

ananoman · May 8th, 2003, 11:41

There was a guy in the 1960's who was known for setting distance records. He used a Commanche for some of them and I think he was close to double the max weight on some of his flights.

May 6th, 2003, 21:53	#1
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,630	Weight If I wanted to take-off with a higher than gross weight that is certified for my aircraft, say to ferry an aircraft overseas (more fuel), what would I have to do or get approved from the FAA? Thanks

May 6th, 2003, 22:08	#2
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,869	Re: Weight You've gotta get a ferry permit for the aircraft. Give your FSDO a call to find out what you gotta do. Cheers John Herreshoff

May 6th, 2003, 22:11	#3
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,630	Re: Weight John, I thought it was something like that, but where can I find information on Ferry Permits. I can't seem to find it in the Private Pilot Jeppesen, but I could be overlooking it. thanks

May 6th, 2003, 22:28	#4
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Weight Thats because its not really something most private pilots have to deal with. Hell, I don't even know if its in the Jepp Commercial text (and I'm too lazy to look right now). You're best bet would be to give a FSDO a ring...they deal with things like that on a case-by-case basis, so theres not really much in textbooks about how to go about it.

May 7th, 2003, 10:28	#5
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: Weight You can also call the AOPA, they have people to answer technical questions.

May 7th, 2003, 11:06	#6
aviator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 385	Re: Weight It can be done, you do need to get the ferry permit from the FSDO. Remember, if you are exceeding the max gross for the airplane the type certificate is technically invalid. I had a buddy go through the process to ferry a Bonanza from Oakland to Honalulu. He said the paper work was a nightmare and thought the trip was VERY sketchy. 16 hours over water in a single....

May 7th, 2003, 11:09	#7
davetheflyer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: KATL, Georgia, Tennessee Posts: 1,016	Re: Weight I think that the technical term is actually Special Flight Permit. You might try searching under that.

May 7th, 2003, 11:15	#8
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,024	Re: Weight One reason you probably can't find anything about it is because it's not one of those things that is spelled out "If you do A, B, and C a ferry permit will be issued to do X" - while are some general guidelines it is very much up to the discretion of the Airworthiness Inspector at your FSDO as to how much bullcrap and what kind of bullcrap will be required of you before he signs off on it. Also another word of warning - it would probably behoove you to call the FSDO that has jurisdiction over your departure airport - i.e. if you live in Wichita but plan to depart in the overweight condition from Boston call the Boston FSDO. I don't recall all of the specifics but when I was in the Dash 8 at Allegheny we ran into a situation where our POI at the local FSDO approved us to do something with the aircraft - when we landed at an airport within the jurisdiction of another FSDO an inspector decided he didn't think it was safe and tried to ground the airplane. Basically it was just a war between adjoining FSDO's to see whose pee pee was bigger but it caused headaches for the airline and the crews. Point is - make sure you have approval from the FSDO where your operation is going to take place. Jason

May 7th, 2003, 11:39	#9
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,630	Re: Weight Thanks to everyone for the replies. Another question, what is the most pounds over gross you have seen, heard of or read? Thanks again

May 7th, 2003, 11:54	#10
bumflip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 314	Re: Weight How in the hell would someone get a Bonanza to HI without refueling? And the prevailing winds would kill your ground speed! I know it just a big deal to fly our choppers from Oahu to the Big Island...And there are stops in between! Somebody please enlighten me? Also wouldn't that pilot have to have another Pilot on board to take over after 8 hours?

May 7th, 2003, 14:17	#11
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Weight fuel tanks. Lots and lots of extra fuel. Here is a link to a page of someone who flew around the world in a Mooney. Around the world and details from Brackett Field, CA.(KPOC), to Hilo, Hawaii (PHTO) here

May 7th, 2003, 20:31	#12
aviator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 385	Re: Weight The owner installed a fuel tank inside the cabin. The orginal destination was actually Bangkok. The next stop after Hawiaii was the Solomon's (not to sure of that) Apparently the aircraft barely made it off the strip in Oakland (took something like 10,000' to get airborne). Once in flight the satelite phone he brought along wouldn't link up so he had passing airliners relay his position. The ink was still wet on his commercial ticket and this was his first flying gig. After reaching Hawiaii he was hallucinating and pretty much scared out of his wits so he abandoned the aircraft there. Much to the dismay of the owner.

May 7th, 2003, 21:43	#13
chunk75 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: FL Posts: 922	Re: Weight It's an old site, but I really like the story of going around the world in a King Air. www.ponceby.com

May 7th, 2003, 22:18	#14
DrBenny Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MD Posts: 395	Re: Weight Hover, when I was in Hawaii, I asked around the flight schools. Apparently, many of the Cessnas and others they have there were actually flown there. [ QUOTE ] How in the hell would someone get a Bonanza to HI without refueling? And the prevailing winds would kill your ground speed! I know it just a big deal to fly our choppers from Oahu to the Big Island...And there are stops in between! Somebody please enlighten me? Also wouldn't that pilot have to have another Pilot on board to take over after 8 hours? [/ QUOTE ]

May 8th, 2003, 07:45	#15
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Weight [ QUOTE ] Apparently, many of the Cessnas and others they have there were actually flown there. [/ QUOTE ] I would dare bet most if not all were flown there. For one airplane, its probably cheaper/easier to throw in a ferry tank and be on your way.

May 8th, 2003, 07:55	#16
sbav8r Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 195	Re: Weight I knew a guy who had done this in a 182. Almost the entire aircraft was tanked and over gross weight. He said they stopped doing it that way and most aircraft were crated and shipped. Perhaps this is only new aircraft, they may still tank the old ones.

May 8th, 2003, 08:23	#17
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,024	Re: Weight Yeah it's honestly not that big of a deal to pull the wings off, put it in a box and send it one it's way. I can't imagine it would be any more expensive to ship a Cessna than it would be to ship say a pickup or SUV over there. Jason

May 8th, 2003, 11:41	#18
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: Weight There was a guy in the 1960's who was known for setting distance records. He used a Commanche for some of them and I think he was close to double the max weight on some of his flights.

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